Vignette problem

Steven Thomas · March 26th, 2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Wall

Steven

I am wondering if only the cams that had the vignette issue also suffer from the backfocus problem. My cam was sent back in early Jan for that problem.

Chuck

Chuck, I'm not sure about that.
My current camera (replacement for my original EX1 camera) has some vignetting in the top two corners (8-25mm range). My back focus looks OK.

Paul Joy · March 26th, 2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lorente

Maybe this thread should change his title from "Vignette problem" to "Lens problems".

Actually, this thread has been badly derailed by the backfocus problems and if anything they need to be posted elsewhere. A lot of people, myself included are still having vignette issues and it would be good to keep this thread for that problem alone if possible.

Craig Seeman · March 27th, 2008, 08:48 AM

I saw this shot on CNN. Look at upper left and right corners. Vignette issue is more severe on upper left.

BTW I'm seeing this on some of the HD channels (Voom channels) from my Cable service.

Either there's another camera on the market with this issue or you can see who's using the EX1 and haven't gotten them repaired/replaced. It kinda makes you think how many are out there with this and other issues that simply go into service and NEVER get checked.

Eric Pascarelli · March 27th, 2008, 08:58 AM

Good eye.

It's pretty much a perfect shot for seeing the vignetting problem.

I'm not sure CNN should be so proud of that exclusive - it's a pretty boring shot!

Gerald Loidl · March 27th, 2008, 09:21 AM

Today I got my camera back from the 3rd repair attempt. When I thoroughly checked it an hour ago I found out that it still has the same issue. Still soft with ND on AND ND off.
They reinstalled the new FW and did the backfocus adjustment routine. I spoke to the technician (who was not from prime support, but from Sony Austria) how he checked it - and he had to admit that he did not have an HD monitor, but he normally does not do any repairs on this camera, so I cant blame him...
All repairs are normally done by Prime Support only.
The sales representative from Sony Austria, who is a very professional, helpful, and friendly gentleman now tries to get a camera from the latest batch for me. If I did not know him, I would have asked for a refund now. I still can´t believe that there are perfect EX-1´s without backfocus problems out there. I hope to get the new camera next week - if it also has the same problem I will have to demand a refund.
Problem is: What camera should I buy instead - the EX1 would be such a great camera... Maybe I will just wait for a couple of months, put my money on the bank and see if they can deliver some working cameras then.

Lonnie Bell · March 27th, 2008, 09:47 AM

Gerald - I feel your pain.

But what I'm mentally wrangling is this:
With content being king, and more than 90% of the central viewing picture dropping jaws of would be onlookers, this camera is still pumping out an amazing picture. And if my competition is using it - the fact remains that layman (customers) are going to see a better vignetted/blurry EX1 image than a glitch free XLH1/XHA1 image...

Granted - at 7k, i want a camera with no problems. But, now I'm asking myself, should I get it before my competition does, and just learn to work around the camera's beta-release issues?

The ONLY reason I haven't taken the plunge is I live in Vegas and NAB is 2+ weeks away - and 7K is a lot for my budget, so I just want to make sure before I purchase a camera with known deficiencies, that Canon, Panasonic, nor Red is coming out with something just as good or better...

As agonizing as this is, this camera is still a milestone...

Lonnie

Gerald Loidl · March 28th, 2008, 07:54 AM

Today I fixed the backfocus problem for myself, just before I wanted to return my EX1 for another exchange.
I did the FB-adjustment procedure once again - but this time I used 12 backfocus charts side by side (actually 4 columns and 3 rows), which I attached to a white wall of my house.
I did the procedure for each ND - setting separately. Looks like only 1 backfocus chart was not enough to fix my problem. The camera was 3m away from the charts - aperture of course wide open.

Maybe this trick will work for others as well.
The sad thing is that Sony could not fix it in 3 repair attempts.
I hope it will stay like this now.

My camera has the new FW 1.05.

Maybe this technique will help others as well.

regards,
Gerald

Paul Kellett · March 28th, 2008, 10:22 AM

Gerald,can you post some before and after pics,i want to compare them with my before and after pics where i used 1 chart for adjustment.

Thanks,Paul.

Steven Thomas · March 28th, 2008, 10:59 AM

Paul, your result looks real sharp.

Gerald Loidl · March 28th, 2008, 11:05 AM

one shot was done a couple of weeks ago (the darker one) - second one 15 minutes ago with same settings. (light is very different though and its pretty hazy today)
Yours look sharp to me - I think you fixed it.

Gerald Loidl · March 28th, 2008, 11:23 AM

Here is a split screen image with ND off/ND1/ND2 after adjustment. Everything is in manual mode.
Focus is near infinity, f1,9 - shutter speed varies from 1/2000 to 1/50. Detail off.
It´s been a little too bright to match ND off correctly though:

Steven Thomas · March 28th, 2008, 11:30 AM

Gerald,
That looks real sharp man!
You fixed it!

Dang, hmmmm... Maybe I should look closer at mine. Your wide shots may be even a tad sharper than mine. I'll need to check mine closer.

It's hard to believe that was with DETAIL OFF. This is the first camera i've seen in this price range still maintain so much detail with enhancement off.

Most, in this price range turn into mush.

Gerald Loidl · March 28th, 2008, 11:42 AM

yep - rechecked - I´ve really set "Detail off"

Steven Thomas · March 28th, 2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald Loidl

yep - rechecked - I´ve really set "Detail off"

Which brings up my next question. What camera mode (PP) did you have the camera set when performing the BF calibration?
Also, was detail off during the BF calibration?

Gerald Loidl · March 28th, 2008, 11:57 AM

PP - Standard Setting 1 with Detail OFF
HQ - 1080 25p

March 27th, 2008, 08:48 AM	#678
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	How to spot who's using EX1 I saw this shot on CNN. Look at upper left and right corners. Vignette issue is more severe on upper left. BTW I'm seeing this on some of the HD channels (Voom channels) from my Cable service. Either there's another camera on the market with this issue or you can see who's using the EX1 and haven't gotten them repaired/replaced. It kinda makes you think how many are out there with this and other issues that simply go into service and NEVER get checked. Attached Thumbnails

March 27th, 2008, 09:47 AM	#681
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	Gerald - I feel your pain. But what I'm mentally wrangling is this: With content being king, and more than 90% of the central viewing picture dropping jaws of would be onlookers, this camera is still pumping out an amazing picture. And if my competition is using it - the fact remains that layman (customers) are going to see a better vignetted/blurry EX1 image than a glitch free XLH1/XHA1 image... Granted - at 7k, i want a camera with no problems. But, now I'm asking myself, should I get it before my competition does, and just learn to work around the camera's beta-release issues? The ONLY reason I haven't taken the plunge is I live in Vegas and NAB is 2+ weeks away - and 7K is a lot for my budget, so I just want to make sure before I purchase a camera with known deficiencies, that Canon, Panasonic, nor Red is coming out with something just as good or better... As agonizing as this is, this camera is still a milestone... Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

March 28th, 2008, 07:54 AM	#682
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Fixed! Today I fixed the backfocus problem for myself, just before I wanted to return my EX1 for another exchange. I did the FB-adjustment procedure once again - but this time I used 12 backfocus charts side by side (actually 4 columns and 3 rows), which I attached to a white wall of my house. I did the procedure for each ND - setting separately. Looks like only 1 backfocus chart was not enough to fix my problem. The camera was 3m away from the charts - aperture of course wide open. Maybe this trick will work for others as well. The sad thing is that Sony could not fix it in 3 repair attempts. I hope it will stay like this now. My camera has the new FW 1.05. Maybe this technique will help others as well. regards, Gerald

March 28th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#683
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Gerald,can you post some before and after pics,i want to compare them with my before and after pics where i used 1 chart for adjustment. Thanks,Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

March 28th, 2008, 11:05 AM	#685
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	one shot was done a couple of weeks ago (the darker one) - second one 15 minutes ago with same settings. (light is very different though and its pretty hazy today) Yours look sharp to me - I think you fixed it. Attached Thumbnails

March 27th, 2008, 08:58 AM	#679
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Good eye. It's pretty much a perfect shot for seeing the vignetting problem. I'm not sure CNN should be so proud of that exclusive - it's a pretty boring shot!

March 27th, 2008, 09:21 AM	#680
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Today I got my camera back from the 3rd repair attempt. When I thoroughly checked it an hour ago I found out that it still has the same issue. Still soft with ND on AND ND off. They reinstalled the new FW and did the backfocus adjustment routine. I spoke to the technician (who was not from prime support, but from Sony Austria) how he checked it - and he had to admit that he did not have an HD monitor, but he normally does not do any repairs on this camera, so I cant blame him... All repairs are normally done by Prime Support only. The sales representative from Sony Austria, who is a very professional, helpful, and friendly gentleman now tries to get a camera from the latest batch for me. If I did not know him, I would have asked for a refund now. I still can´t believe that there are perfect EX-1´s without backfocus problems out there. I hope to get the new camera next week - if it also has the same problem I will have to demand a refund. Problem is: What camera should I buy instead - the EX1 would be such a great camera... Maybe I will just wait for a couple of months, put my money on the bank and see if they can deliver some working cameras then.

March 28th, 2008, 10:59 AM	#684
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Paul, your result looks real sharp.

March 28th, 2008, 11:23 AM	#686
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Here is a split screen image with ND off/ND1/ND2 after adjustment. Everything is in manual mode. Focus is near infinity, f1,9 - shutter speed varies from 1/2000 to 1/50. Detail off. It´s been a little too bright to match ND off correctly though: Attached Thumbnails

March 28th, 2008, 11:30 AM	#687
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Gerald, That looks real sharp man! You fixed it! Dang, hmmmm... Maybe I should look closer at mine. Your wide shots may be even a tad sharper than mine. I'll need to check mine closer. It's hard to believe that was with DETAIL OFF. This is the first camera i've seen in this price range still maintain so much detail with enhancement off. Most, in this price range turn into mush.

March 28th, 2008, 11:42 AM	#688
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	yep - rechecked - I´ve really set "Detail off"

March 28th, 2008, 11:57 AM	#690
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	PP - Standard Setting 1 with Detail OFF HQ - 1080 25p