Vignette problem

Steven Thomas · November 20th, 2007, 08:41 PM

Nate,
His new camera actually has a problem. It doesn't appear he's on this board freaking out. He posted a small video and and sample images clearly showing the issue. In facts he'e been pretty cool about it.

Are you telling us we all should live with this issue and it is normal for the EX1?
It sure is not appearing in the footage posted from another EX1.
I agree it's unfortunate, but it's obvious a problem with the camera.
I'd return it too.

Nate Weaver · November 20th, 2007, 09:05 PM

I know I've seen a lot of people make mountains out of molehills (or sometimes, slightly bigger hills) when it comes to the internet and cameras. I certainly saw it with the JVC 2 years ago.

If it's really a defect, then fine, of course he should return it. But given Adam Wilt's comment about vignetting in his review, I'm assuming what we're looking at is a design issue. I have no desire to start a discussion about how Sony screwed up a lens design though, and since I certainly don't know for sure, I'm going to let it lie. I can think of a couple different reasons for a vignette as Adam describes to only show up in one corner, and only at certain times. One is OIS.

Steven Thomas · November 20th, 2007, 09:53 PM

I hear you Nate. I guess we'll know more since we are slowly receiving them.
Again, I don't see it in the tennis footage posted earlier and there was everything from wide to mid travel.

Paul Joy · November 20th, 2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Why is everybody freaking about this?

I don't think people are freaking about it at all.

In terms of your 'culture of criticism' I really enjoy reading about peoples experiences with cameras, or for that matter any other product I'm looking at investing in, and likewise when I get one I like to share my findings. As much as I appreciate the larger reviews from well know industry figures, I always enjoy reading about the feelings of average punters too who you know are not going to be careful about annoying any sponsoring brands. Everyone has their own opinions, and I like to hear them.

I've posted a few minor niggles with this camera, but I've also posted what I like about it too, other than this problem I think it's a great camera and it has met my expectations. Yes there are a few things that I struggled with coming from a canon, but within a few hours I was benefiting from the Sony cameras functionality and workflow.

With regards to this lens problem though, you must have lower requirements than I do if you think this would be an acceptable design problem (not that I think it is a design problem). I have a shoot booked in next week which is an interview against a white background to be shown on a white web page, I'm sure they would love to see this black corner on their video! For me this makes the camera unusable, that may not be the case for you, but for me my business is all about the quality of the work I produce.

I would be totally amazed if this were a design flaw, I'm sure Sony would not release a camera with anything like that happening and I like the camera so much that I'm going to really look forward to getting hold of another one.

Paul.

Paul Henley · November 20th, 2007, 10:48 PM

Smart decision to return the camera Paul.

It's a shame you had this problem. As an XHA1 owner, I would have loved to have read your opinion on how the EX1 compares to the Canon.

Good Luck!

Richard Clark · November 21st, 2007, 01:43 AM

It just seems like you got a bum camera..I freaking hope so!

Phil Bloom · November 21st, 2007, 01:56 AM

when and where did you get it from Paul?

Piotr Wozniacki · November 21st, 2007, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

...given Adam Wilt's comment about vignetting in his review, I'm assuming what we're looking at is a design issue...

I know this forum is not the right place for any sort of "conspiracy theories", but frankly I'd tend to agree with Nate it *might* be a design problem, not necessarily manifesting itself in each and every unit, but close to it. Out of so few people actually having tested the camera, two are reporting the problem. The camera supply has been delayed and vastly reduced - who knows, perhaps the QC is working on it worldwide to separate those flawed?

My UK supplier isn't answering my e-mails; something is definitely not right.

Paul, forgive me this question - did you try to take the lens hood off, and shoot without it?

PS Paul, my above "theory" is the reason I still think you shold keep the camera and only have it replaced once the thing is totally and definitely resolved. This is a real and evident flaw, and you should have no problem replacing the camera even after 2-3 moths; if not then Prime Support will have learned how to fix it by then...

Phil Bloom · November 21st, 2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

My UK supplier isn't answering my e-mails; something is definitely not right.

who is your uk supplier?

Chris Hurd · November 21st, 2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

who is your uk supplier?

Please keep in mind that the *only* dealers we discuss on DV Info Net are our trusted site sponsors. For the UK and EU so far I have http://www.videogear.co.uk -- per our policy I will remove references to any dealer who is not part of our network. Please take any discussion of non-sponsor dealers to email -- thanks in advance,

Alex Leith · November 21st, 2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I know I've seen a lot of people make mountains out of molehills (or sometimes, slightly bigger hills) when it comes to the internet and cameras. I certainly saw it with the JVC 2 years ago.

If it's really a defect, then fine, of course he should return it. But given Adam Wilt's comment about vignetting in his review, I'm assuming what we're looking at is a design issue.

Regardless of whether the vignetting is a design issue or a one-off fault it would seem that there is a problem that needs addressing (by the manufacturer) if you find a blueish triangle in the corner of your image.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect ANY camera to produce a picture which is free from distracting artifacts...?

Steven Thomas · November 21st, 2007, 12:43 PM

Today I played with the tennis videos posted Yesterday.
I intentionally went looking for the slightest vignetting.
There were a lot of shots that were past mid travel on the tele end of the lens.
It appears not be an issue with this cam, Although, we don't know for sure where the f-stop was at that given time.
Under that lighting, since the footage was overexposed and he said he was not using gain, I can assume it was close to open.

Steven Thomas · November 21st, 2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Leith

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect ANY camera to produce a picture which is free from distracting artifacts...?

???
It depends what your thinking reasonable?
With the stock lens and no attachment, I'd say losing the top corner of your picture is unreasonable.

Paul Joy · November 21st, 2007, 12:48 PM

On my camera the problem appears the most between 10mm and 25mm.

Steven Thomas · November 21st, 2007, 12:57 PM

Wow, this seems really odd.
It's definately not the true sense of vignetting. Well, we knew that anyways since it was only one corner.

Not that it should matter, have you tried turning off image stabilization?

November 20th, 2007, 09:05 PM	#32
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I know I've seen a lot of people make mountains out of molehills (or sometimes, slightly bigger hills) when it comes to the internet and cameras. I certainly saw it with the JVC 2 years ago. If it's really a defect, then fine, of course he should return it. But given Adam Wilt's comment about vignetting in his review, I'm assuming what we're looking at is a design issue. I have no desire to start a discussion about how Sony screwed up a lens design though, and since I certainly don't know for sure, I'm going to let it lie. I can think of a couple different reasons for a vignette as Adam describes to only show up in one corner, and only at certain times. One is OIS. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 20th, 2007, 10:48 PM	#35
Paul Henley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: APO, AP (Korea) Posts: 19	Smart decision to return the camera Paul. It's a shame you had this problem. As an XHA1 owner, I would have loved to have read your opinion on how the EX1 compares to the Canon. Good Luck! __________________ The beatings will continue until morale improves.

November 21st, 2007, 01:43 AM	#36
Richard Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wexford, Pa Posts: 27	It just seems like you got a bum camera..I freaking hope so! __________________ Sony XDCAM EX HVX-200

November 21st, 2007, 01:56 AM	#37
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	when and where did you get it from Paul? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 21st, 2007, 12:48 PM	#44
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	On my camera the problem appears the most between 10mm and 25mm. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

November 20th, 2007, 08:41 PM	#31
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Nate, His new camera actually has a problem. It doesn't appear he's on this board freaking out. He posted a small video and and sample images clearly showing the issue. In facts he'e been pretty cool about it. Are you telling us we all should live with this issue and it is normal for the EX1? It sure is not appearing in the footage posted from another EX1. I agree it's unfortunate, but it's obvious a problem with the camera. I'd return it too.

November 20th, 2007, 09:53 PM	#33
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I hear you Nate. I guess we'll know more since we are slowly receiving them. Again, I don't see it in the tennis footage posted earlier and there was everything from wide to mid travel.

November 21st, 2007, 12:43 PM	#42
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Today I played with the tennis videos posted Yesterday. I intentionally went looking for the slightest vignetting. There were a lot of shots that were past mid travel on the tele end of the lens. It appears not be an issue with this cam, Although, we don't know for sure where the f-stop was at that given time. Under that lighting, since the footage was overexposed and he said he was not using gain, I can assume it was close to open.

November 21st, 2007, 12:57 PM	#45
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Wow, this seems really odd. It's definately not the true sense of vignetting. Well, we knew that anyways since it was only one corner. Not that it should matter, have you tried turning off image stabilization?