Vignette problem

Serena Steuart · December 15th, 2007, 06:19 AM

Haven't seen it. I did the tests last night and looked fine. Have been very busy today and haven't loaded clips into Vegas to check on the monitor. The LCD shows the full field so it should be seen there if present.

Christopher Barry · December 15th, 2007, 06:41 AM

I spoke to Danny on Friday and he has my EX1, and a second for my DP friend, ready to be shipped. I don't want to have to do the Sony authorised repair thing...

John Hewat · December 15th, 2007, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Barry

...I don't want to have to do the Sony authorised repair thing...

Sounds like that's what I'm going to have to do. I hope they don't take it away from me for too long...

It was a two hour drive each way into Collingwod on Friday to pick it up - it's even further to Pro Hi-Tec... What a pain in the neck...

Isn't this pro gear supposed to be covered by an on-site warranty or am I dreaming?

Graeme Fullick · December 15th, 2007, 01:23 PM

John,

My EX1 has exactly the same vignetting - top and bottom right hand side, even to the point of me thinking that you had borrowed my screen shots. And yes it seems to happen on mine from about 8 - 15, which is slightly less and shorter focal lengths than the problems identified in the US. The camera is from the same batch no doubt (as was Bob's). My serial number is 200066 -I will bet that yours is within 30 of mine, and that they have escaped the QC vignette test. Fortunately my Sony service centre is just down the road, but like you I don't want to lose it. So I am going to ring Sony tomorrow and check whether anyone in Australia is aware of the problem.

I doubt that this level of vignetting will be a significant issue in everyday use as it doesn't show up on the LCD screen - not on a normal scan monitor - but it is clearly there in any overscan monitor. Given that almost no non-professional monitors overscan it is unlikely to show up on a clients screen. However, if it can be fixed then it should be fixed as this is a brand new camera.

A word of warning to Serena - it does not show on the LCD which is a normal scan monitor (there is no all scan setting on the EX - a feature I miss from the Z1), but it will be there in the Sony clip viewer, and if your NLE can be switched to full overscan (such as in Avid Liquid that I use) it is very easy to see.

Bob, seeing as your cameras were the ones immediatley before or after mine in the batch it is possible that you will also have at least one of them with the problem.

I don't think that this is a great problem in the real world - but lets get it fixed!

Steven Thomas · December 15th, 2007, 03:15 PM

That's not good news these are escaping Sony's QC.

It makes me wonder how they are actually doing the test.
The key is the problem exists between 8mm - 25mm range.
The aperture must be wide open (f1.9) and the exposure must be
under exposed or you will wash out the vignette.

The vignette starts to dissapear as you close down the aperture to at least f4.

My vignetting issue has been showing up a lot in my footage.

Graeme Fullick · December 15th, 2007, 03:21 PM

Steven,

Not good news that yours is showing in footage. Fortunatley mine is not that severe, but I haven't used the camera extensively yet. Still I like you want it fixed - sooner rather than later.

Eric Pascarelli · December 15th, 2007, 03:35 PM

Does any one of you want to try resetting the back focus? One Sony dealer told me that it can clear up the vignetting problem (I don't totally believe him). See my thread for instructions.

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110220

And even if you don't do it, at least you can check out the hidden maintenance menu. I am not with my camera at the moment and am very curious about that.

Steven Thomas · December 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM

Eric I saw that.
I'm a bit hesitant. My back focus appears good. I'm not sure how that would fix the vignette issue? Having said that, it seems odd they were given very specific instruction on this. Maybe it will help?

Again, what were the details on how you got this info?

Graeme Fullick · December 15th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Eric,

I saw your reply on this - but I don't have a back focus chart.
I have just downloaded one from Google, but am still a little nervous about trying it. Might give the Sony dealer a call first.

Graeme Fullick · December 15th, 2007, 04:06 PM

Eric,

One thing I can confirm - the maintenance menu is there, just as you were told and so is the back focus adjustment.

Eric Pascarelli · December 15th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Steve,

Hesitation understood. I will try it when I get to my camera, but I am usually pretty cavalier about these things.

The info was given to me by a Sony dealer who got the info in an email straight from Sony. My instructions were copied from that email. The original reason for the instructions were that very early cameras were having backfocus problems - the focus was drifting during zooms - and this was Sony's fix. They also indicated to him that this would fix the vignetting problem, though that was not the reason for them sending the instructions. He explained to me that Sony very carefully adjusted the back focus on the cameras when they left the factory but that perhaps adjustments were slipping during shipping.

While my camera has the vignetting issue, I have not noticed any back focus problems. But back focus problems might be masked by the MF Assist function, which I usually have engaged.

I am always fascinated by the secret menus hidden in so many gadgets we buy, so I am very curious to see what options are on there, and whether back focus can fix or at least affect the vignetting. I am also impressed that backfocus is adjustable using a soft menu (which means there must be some sort of internal motor to do it?) rather than through direct mechanical interaction.

The story that we, the end users, are told is that because this is a fixed lens camera, there is no backfocus adjustment. Clearly there is. I am wondering whether we should effect this adjustment from time to time (like on a 2/3" camera), as a matter of "maintenance," especially after the camera suffers some high g forces.

Steven Thomas · December 15th, 2007, 05:06 PM

Eric, when will you get your camera?

Also, I am curious about the back focus adjustment. Having said that I may pull out the siemens focus star chart and at least check my camera.

Also, when you go to do this automated test. I wonder if the star chart will need to be in an enviroment where close objects will not confuse the calibration?

Siemens Star Focus Chart:
http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/getResource2...t1.pdf?id=6145

Eric Pascarelli · December 15th, 2007, 05:24 PM

I learned something about the "focus bullet" chart just by reading that pdf. Interesting.

Maybe a "Backfocus" thread is in order, as all this has nothing in particular to do with Australia.

Mark Kenfield · December 15th, 2007, 06:29 PM

Well the courier did eventually arrive at the office with my review sample (albeit almost an hour after closing time on a Friday). I'll be taking it down the Mornington Peninsula next week to put it through its paces.

It does look awfully pretty sitting here on my desk!

John Hewat · December 15th, 2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Fullick

My serial number is 200066 -I will bet that yours is within 30 of mine, and that they have escaped the QC vignette test.

You're right - Mine's 200087. Do you think that the later serial numbers will not have the issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

That's not good news these are escaping Sony's QC.

I don't understand though, because my box was re-packaged with tape that said "OPENED FOR INSPECTION BY PRODUCT TEST - SONY"

I figured that meant that they would have tested for vignetting.

What are we going to do if they say "We tested it and deemed it to be acceptable"?

And what exactly is the fix tht they do? I guess we'll only know when talking to Sony... You say you'll ring Sony - do you mean the repair agent?

December 15th, 2007, 01:23 PM	#319
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	John, My EX1 has exactly the same vignetting - top and bottom right hand side, even to the point of me thinking that you had borrowed my screen shots. And yes it seems to happen on mine from about 8 - 15, which is slightly less and shorter focal lengths than the problems identified in the US. The camera is from the same batch no doubt (as was Bob's). My serial number is 200066 -I will bet that yours is within 30 of mine, and that they have escaped the QC vignette test. Fortunately my Sony service centre is just down the road, but like you I don't want to lose it. So I am going to ring Sony tomorrow and check whether anyone in Australia is aware of the problem. I doubt that this level of vignetting will be a significant issue in everyday use as it doesn't show up on the LCD screen - not on a normal scan monitor - but it is clearly there in any overscan monitor. Given that almost no non-professional monitors overscan it is unlikely to show up on a clients screen. However, if it can be fixed then it should be fixed as this is a brand new camera. A word of warning to Serena - it does not show on the LCD which is a normal scan monitor (there is no all scan setting on the EX - a feature I miss from the Z1), but it will be there in the Sony clip viewer, and if your NLE can be switched to full overscan (such as in Avid Liquid that I use) it is very easy to see. Bob, seeing as your cameras were the ones immediatley before or after mine in the batch it is possible that you will also have at least one of them with the problem. I don't think that this is a great problem in the real world - but lets get it fixed! __________________ Graeme

December 15th, 2007, 03:21 PM	#321
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Steven, Not good news that yours is showing in footage. Fortunatley mine is not that severe, but I haven't used the camera extensively yet. Still I like you want it fixed - sooner rather than later. __________________ Graeme

December 15th, 2007, 03:53 PM	#324
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Eric, I saw your reply on this - but I don't have a back focus chart. I have just downloaded one from Google, but am still a little nervous about trying it. Might give the Sony dealer a call first. __________________ Graeme

December 15th, 2007, 04:06 PM	#325
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Eric, One thing I can confirm - the maintenance menu is there, just as you were told and so is the back focus adjustment. __________________ Graeme

December 15th, 2007, 06:19 AM	#316
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	Haven't seen it. I did the tests last night and looked fine. Have been very busy today and haven't loaded clips into Vegas to check on the monitor. The LCD shows the full field so it should be seen there if present.

December 15th, 2007, 06:41 AM	#317
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	I spoke to Danny on Friday and he has my EX1, and a second for my DP friend, ready to be shipped. I don't want to have to do the Sony authorised repair thing...

December 15th, 2007, 03:15 PM	#320
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	That's not good news these are escaping Sony's QC. It makes me wonder how they are actually doing the test. The key is the problem exists between 8mm - 25mm range. The aperture must be wide open (f1.9) and the exposure must be under exposed or you will wash out the vignette. The vignette starts to dissapear as you close down the aperture to at least f4. My vignetting issue has been showing up a lot in my footage.

December 15th, 2007, 03:35 PM	#322
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Does any one of you want to try resetting the back focus? One Sony dealer told me that it can clear up the vignetting problem (I don't totally believe him). See my thread for instructions. http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110220 And even if you don't do it, at least you can check out the hidden maintenance menu. I am not with my camera at the moment and am very curious about that.

December 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM	#323
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Eric I saw that. I'm a bit hesitant. My back focus appears good. I'm not sure how that would fix the vignette issue? Having said that, it seems odd they were given very specific instruction on this. Maybe it will help? Again, what were the details on how you got this info?

December 15th, 2007, 04:54 PM	#326
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Steve, Hesitation understood. I will try it when I get to my camera, but I am usually pretty cavalier about these things. The info was given to me by a Sony dealer who got the info in an email straight from Sony. My instructions were copied from that email. The original reason for the instructions were that very early cameras were having backfocus problems - the focus was drifting during zooms - and this was Sony's fix. They also indicated to him that this would fix the vignetting problem, though that was not the reason for them sending the instructions. He explained to me that Sony very carefully adjusted the back focus on the cameras when they left the factory but that perhaps adjustments were slipping during shipping. While my camera has the vignetting issue, I have not noticed any back focus problems. But back focus problems might be masked by the MF Assist function, which I usually have engaged. I am always fascinated by the secret menus hidden in so many gadgets we buy, so I am very curious to see what options are on there, and whether back focus can fix or at least affect the vignetting. I am also impressed that backfocus is adjustable using a soft menu (which means there must be some sort of internal motor to do it?) rather than through direct mechanical interaction. The story that we, the end users, are told is that because this is a fixed lens camera, there is no backfocus adjustment. Clearly there is. I am wondering whether we should effect this adjustment from time to time (like on a 2/3" camera), as a matter of "maintenance," especially after the camera suffers some high g forces.

December 15th, 2007, 05:06 PM	#327
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Eric, when will you get your camera? Also, I am curious about the back focus adjustment. Having said that I may pull out the siemens focus star chart and at least check my camera. Also, when you go to do this automated test. I wonder if the star chart will need to be in an enviroment where close objects will not confuse the calibration? Siemens Star Focus Chart: http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/getResource2...t1.pdf?id=6145

December 15th, 2007, 05:24 PM	#328
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	I learned something about the "focus bullet" chart just by reading that pdf. Interesting. Maybe a "Backfocus" thread is in order, as all this has nothing in particular to do with Australia.

December 15th, 2007, 06:29 PM	#329
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Well the courier did eventually arrive at the office with my review sample (albeit almost an hour after closing time on a Friday). I'll be taking it down the Mornington Peninsula next week to put it through its paces. It does look awfully pretty sitting here on my desk!