Vignette problem

Chris Hurd · November 28th, 2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli

I guess I need Chris' permission. It says I "may not post attachments."

Per my email to you, I thought I fixed this -- you may need to log out and back in again -- if you don't see a "manage attachments" button below the text input area when making a reply, please let me know by email. It may have something to do with forum permissions in that case.

Eric Pascarelli · November 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Here are two full size grabs.

The soft one is deep focus, the sharp one is close focus.

Don't be alarmed by the noise - I had gain maxed and the 6-stop ND filter on to home in on a good wide-open exposure.

Eric Pascarelli · November 28th, 2007, 01:29 PM

Chris - permissions are working (apparently). Thanks.

Piotr Wozniacki · November 28th, 2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli

Here are two full size grabs.

The soft one is deep focus, the sharp one is close focus.

Don't be alarmed by the noise - I had gain maxed and the 6-stop ND filter on to home in on a good wide-open exposure.

It beats me how something like this could have passed the QC.

Craig Seeman · November 28th, 2007, 01:59 PM

Eric, judging from those stills it also exhibits a blueish hue on the right side. It though I saw that on Paul Joy's shots although it was on the left.

Try OIS off.
I thought Adam Wilt believe the issue was related to the focus mechanism rather than OIS.

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Eric you are right, my monitor is underscanned. Not by much though, not as much as the safe area on the EX1 LCD outlines. At least using the component inputs. Although the camera's LCD is small, I see no issues. I will capture a test soon.

Eric, you examples are not as bad compared to Paul's.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...2&d=1195761898

Leonard Levy · November 28th, 2007, 02:49 PM

I wonder if this issue is similar to the inconsistency we found in the HVX imaging blocks not always being centered on the lens. This didn't show up until we started focusing in on 35mm adapters on the HVX.
In the Panny case it sounds like it was due to manufacturing tolerances not being strict enough. Similar issue perhaps?

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 03:13 PM

OK...
Here's the deal.
I've got it... vignetting
Now I'm wondering if they all have it and some are not looking hard enough for it.
Hmm...
Is it bad enough to return, will it effect normal shots, it's hard to say.
I know one thing, Sony is going to have their "ear full" on this one.
This should of NEVER left QC!

Paul Joy · November 28th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Sorry to see you've got the same problem guys, I really hoped mine was a one off . Please let us know how you get on if you go the Sony support route, I'm interested to know if Sony are going to fix it or just decide that it's within tolerances.

what a shame!

Paul.

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 04:20 PM

Thanks Paul.
Good question.
I'm not sure if I want to give the camera up.
When they figure out how to address this situation.
I will send it to them.
It's now aparent, you just can't order another camera.
I believe the percentage pf cams with an issue here are probably 75%.
I have a feeling it may be higher as everyone gets theirs.

Here's a quick look at my vignetting.
Please overlook focus and white balance. I was focus at a far distance near the end.
Also, to make the vignetting more obvious, I only reduced the image brightness.
It only happens between 10mm - 25mm.

Paul Joy · November 28th, 2007, 04:31 PM

Yours doesn't look so bad Steven, it seems the sensors are biased to the right side and hence only showing the effect on the right. Eric's on the other hand looks almost as bad as the one I had.

In both cases the OIS will definitely make it worse, I looked over some of the hand held footage I shot and I can see the vignetting moving around in the corners.

Antoine Fabi · November 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM

bad QC or bad design ? ...in your opinion ?

Leonard Levy · November 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM

I didn't go through this entire thread but has anyone talked to Sony about this yet? Has there been a response?

Ray Bell · November 28th, 2007, 04:51 PM

I don't have one to play with, and I hate to toss in an idea where I can't test it myself but...

my question is... could this be sensor heat noise??

The way I check the Canon 1Ds is to just put the cam on a tri-pod, open the shutter for a couple minutes with the lens cap on and let the camera take a picture... The picture comes out as black and if the camera suffers from
thermal noise the noise shows up as a purple vignett where the sensor is
suffering from heat....

If the sensor is OK then the picture just stays as black .....

Just maybe a test needs to be done on the EX1 to make sure its not thermal
related...

might even slightly warm the camera up with a hair dryer from about a foot away from the camera during the test??

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 05:12 PM

I captured it after the camera was only on for two minutes.
I don't believe it is due to heat.

November 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#137
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Here are two full size grabs. The soft one is deep focus, the sharp one is close focus. Don't be alarmed by the noise - I had gain maxed and the 6-stop ND filter on to home in on a good wide-open exposure. Attached Thumbnails

November 28th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#144
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Sorry to see you've got the same problem guys, I really hoped mine was a one off . Please let us know how you get on if you go the Sony support route, I'm interested to know if Sony are going to fix it or just decide that it's within tolerances. what a shame! Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

November 28th, 2007, 04:20 PM	#145
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Paul. Good question. I'm not sure if I want to give the camera up. When they figure out how to address this situation. I will send it to them. It's now aparent, you just can't order another camera. I believe the percentage pf cams with an issue here are probably 75%. I have a feeling it may be higher as everyone gets theirs. Here's a quick look at my vignetting. Please overlook focus and white balance. I was focus at a far distance near the end. Also, to make the vignetting more obvious, I only reduced the image brightness. It only happens between 10mm - 25mm. Attached Thumbnails

November 28th, 2007, 04:31 PM	#146
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Yours doesn't look so bad Steven, it seems the sensors are biased to the right side and hence only showing the effect on the right. Eric's on the other hand looks almost as bad as the one I had. In both cases the OIS will definitely make it worse, I looked over some of the hand held footage I shot and I can see the vignetting moving around in the corners. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

November 28th, 2007, 01:29 PM	#138
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Chris - permissions are working (apparently). Thanks.

November 28th, 2007, 01:59 PM	#140
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Eric, judging from those stills it also exhibits a blueish hue on the right side. It though I saw that on Paul Joy's shots although it was on the left. Try OIS off. I thought Adam Wilt believe the issue was related to the focus mechanism rather than OIS.

November 28th, 2007, 02:05 PM	#141
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Eric you are right, my monitor is underscanned. Not by much though, not as much as the safe area on the EX1 LCD outlines. At least using the component inputs. Although the camera's LCD is small, I see no issues. I will capture a test soon. Eric, you examples are not as bad compared to Paul's. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...2&d=1195761898

November 28th, 2007, 02:49 PM	#142
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	I wonder if this issue is similar to the inconsistency we found in the HVX imaging blocks not always being centered on the lens. This didn't show up until we started focusing in on 35mm adapters on the HVX. In the Panny case it sounds like it was due to manufacturing tolerances not being strict enough. Similar issue perhaps?

November 28th, 2007, 03:13 PM	#143
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	OK... Here's the deal. I've got it... vignetting Now I'm wondering if they all have it and some are not looking hard enough for it. Hmm... Is it bad enough to return, will it effect normal shots, it's hard to say. I know one thing, Sony is going to have their "ear full" on this one. This should of NEVER left QC!

November 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM	#147
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	bad QC or bad design ? ...in your opinion ?

November 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM	#148
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	I didn't go through this entire thread but has anyone talked to Sony about this yet? Has there been a response?

November 28th, 2007, 04:51 PM	#149
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	I don't have one to play with, and I hate to toss in an idea where I can't test it myself but... my question is... could this be sensor heat noise?? The way I check the Canon 1Ds is to just put the cam on a tri-pod, open the shutter for a couple minutes with the lens cap on and let the camera take a picture... The picture comes out as black and if the camera suffers from thermal noise the noise shows up as a purple vignett where the sensor is suffering from heat.... If the sensor is OK then the picture just stays as black ..... Just maybe a test needs to be done on the EX1 to make sure its not thermal related... might even slightly warm the camera up with a hair dryer from about a foot away from the camera during the test??

November 28th, 2007, 05:12 PM	#150
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I captured it after the camera was only on for two minutes. I don't believe it is due to heat.