EX1 footage thread - keep it coming!

Piotr Wozniacki · November 21st, 2007, 07:46 AM

Apart from the (CMOS inherent?) noise or shimmering, resembling that on the V1E - I was very curious how the EX1's 25p (in HQ, I believe it's native and not PsF) will behave when forcibly deinterlaced. I opened the HQ 1080/25p in VLC, set deinterlacing to "bob" - and voila! The line twitter is here, as well - just like with the V1E's 1080/25PsF.

My only hope is that when fed though HDMI the native 25p (or 24p) signal will be indeed treated by full hd TV's as progressive, and deinterlacer will not kick-in...

Wesley Alfvin · November 21st, 2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Johansson

Try vlc http://www.videolan.org

That worked! Thank you!

Peter Moretti · November 21st, 2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

... But I still think it looks lovely, and check out the DOF!
...

Paul,

Do you want to comment a little more on how significant the DOF difference is between 1/3 and 1/2 chips? I wasn't expecting anything so dramatic. Thanks!

Paul Joy · November 21st, 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Paul,

Do you want to comment a little more on how significant the DOF difference is between 1/3 and 1/2 chips? I wasn't expecting anything so dramatic. Thanks!

I wish I could be specific, but all I can say is that it feels like i've just discovered depth of field for the first time. This may be partly due to the way the EX does peaking which highlights the depth of field whilst your shooting.

I tried to set up a comparison for you but it doesn't really show the difference in dof that well, I'll probably need to do something outside where I can get a bit more distance between camera and subject. Here's the shots anyway...

Both cameras set at 25p / 50 shutter / 12db Gain and no presets loaded. Both are white balanced at 6700k.

The room is lit by a single ceiling light and the light coming from my monitors.

Ex is on the left, XH on the right.

Doing this test made me realise that another big factor in my noticing the DOF more is the LCD on the Sony, with the camera's side by side the difference in quality on the LCD's is huge, I struggled to focus the Canon after using the Sony.

David Koo · November 21st, 2007, 12:52 PM

Paul,

The DOF seems really shallow!

I thought you were using a 35mm adapter...

I didn't think that going to 1/2 inch chips would make that much of a difference!

Steven Thomas · November 21st, 2007, 12:55 PM

Nice.
It will be great to see more examples. Also, I see the EX1 faired better with noise too.

Tom Vaughan · November 21st, 2007, 04:23 PM

Thank you very much for shooting and posting these clips! It's exciting to see the capabilities first-hand.

When you or another lucky DV Info Net member has a chance I would love to see some sample footage of sports, or footage with similar motion challenges (camera panning and zooming with subjects moving in different directions). 720P 60 would be ideal.... 720P 50 would be fine also.

The 720P50 scene of the cars driving down the street looked pretty good.

Tom

Adam Reuter · November 24th, 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Koo

Paul,

The DOF seems really shallow!

I thought you were using a 35mm adapter...

I didn't think that going to 1/2 inch chips would make that much of a difference!

Indeed David. Having used the JVC DV500 and 5000, going back to 1/3" chip cameras stinks. It really is much easier to get nice depth of field with 1/2" cameras (or 2/3" chip cameras, for that matter) whether it be SD or HD.

Tom Roper · November 24th, 2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Johansson

I and Per Axel shot the footage. I have put them on a webpage here

http://ex.bolanski.com/

Please don't put them on other ftp servers, then nobody will know where they came from or what kind of files they are.

/Andreas

Content has been removed from server. I wish you would take Chris up on his kind offer to host your content.

Graham Bernard · November 25th, 2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Content has been removed from server. I wish you would take Chris up on his kind offer to host your content.

Tom - yes, I agree.

Andreas Johansson · November 25th, 2007, 12:52 PM

I put up a file with all formats that can be used for frame rec recording as a zip file. The card structure is complete in the zipfile.

And I will not use other host than mine, I have good reasons for it so lets not keep that discussion going. Don't set up mirrors without asking me first, but I guess the answer will be no please don't.

I have a new hosting for the files now and maybe the old files will be online again if I find the time to. But the Tennis shots will not be online again and there is a good reason for that to.

ex.bolanski.com

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 01:53 PM

Andreas thank your for the vignette tests!
Question, was the aperture wide open for these tests shots?
If it has a vignetting problem, you will see it more with the aperture wide open.

I did not see any vignetting issues in your samples. I believe some of us wonder if you were to pan the camera from left to right while doing this test, would a vignetting issue show itself?

Hey, is it just me or is this camera extremely clean!
I can not believe shooting the wall in that low light condition that the image is that clean!
Amazing. It's also has a lot of detail.

Eric Pascarelli · November 25th, 2007, 02:17 PM

About 4 to 5 seconds into Andreas' 1080p25 clip there is a very slight darkening in the upper left corner. Likewise in the 720 clip (which zooms out rather than in) there is the same slight darkening toward the wide side.

Both of these seem to happen at the same focal length on the lens. It seems to be a less severe version of what Paul Joy is describing, in that it does not happen at either zoom extreme, but at a point in the middle, close to the wide side.

This slight darkening, combined with OIS and different aperture or focus settings could be what's causing the more extreme cases.

What's happening on Andreas' camera is perfectly acceptable to me, and I won't cancel my order over it. On a film camera this would be considered within spec (I've seen much worse than that make it to the big screen). But if it got much more extreme than that I wold start to get concerned.

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 02:24 PM

Yes, it's "very-very" slight. It may not be noiticable at all for some. But you may be right - what will it look like if the camera is panned with OIS on?

I will perform this test at the end of next week.

Andreas Johansson · November 25th, 2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Andreas thank your for the vignette tests!
Question, was the aperture wide open for these tests shots?
If it has a vignetting problem, you will see it more with the aperture wide open.

I did not see any vignetting issues in your samples. I believe some of us wonder if you were to pan the camera from left to right while doing this test, would a vignetting issue show itself?

Hey, is it just me or is this camera extremely clean!
I can not believe shooting the wall in that low light condition that the image is that clean!
Amazing. It's also has a lot of detail.

I have to check that. I know I used auto focus, I don't remember if i did auto iris or if I set zebra1 to 90% and kept it around there not to over expose it. I know I though of both.

I can do it again if you need to. I didn't know exactly what was needed to show this problem. I could do some panning but I don't have a wall big enough to pan across and if it only shows at some specific point while zooming I need to do allot of pan/zooming.

The wall is a projector screen by the way and the lights were the normal celling lights in our studio, no studio lights used at all.

/Andy

November 21st, 2007, 07:46 AM	#31
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Apart from the (CMOS inherent?) noise or shimmering, resembling that on the V1E - I was very curious how the EX1's 25p (in HQ, I believe it's native and not PsF) will behave when forcibly deinterlaced. I opened the HQ 1080/25p in VLC, set deinterlacing to "bob" - and voila! The line twitter is here, as well - just like with the V1E's 1080/25PsF. My only hope is that when fed though HDMI the native 25p (or 24p) signal will be indeed treated by full hd TV's as progressive, and deinterlacer will not kick-in... __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

November 21st, 2007, 12:52 PM	#35
David Koo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 51	Paul, The DOF seems really shallow! I thought you were using a 35mm adapter... I didn't think that going to 1/2 inch chips would make that much of a difference!

November 21st, 2007, 12:55 PM	#36
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Nice. It will be great to see more examples. Also, I see the EX1 faired better with noise too.

November 21st, 2007, 04:23 PM	#37
Tom Vaughan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Los Gatos, CA Posts: 70	Thank you very much for shooting and posting these clips! It's exciting to see the capabilities first-hand. When you or another lucky DV Info Net member has a chance I would love to see some sample footage of sports, or footage with similar motion challenges (camera panning and zooming with subjects moving in different directions). 720P 60 would be ideal.... 720P 50 would be fine also. The 720P50 scene of the cars driving down the street looked pretty good. Tom

November 25th, 2007, 12:52 PM	#41
Andreas Johansson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 93	I put up a file with all formats that can be used for frame rec recording as a zip file. The card structure is complete in the zipfile. And I will not use other host than mine, I have good reasons for it so lets not keep that discussion going. Don't set up mirrors without asking me first, but I guess the answer will be no please don't. I have a new hosting for the files now and maybe the old files will be online again if I find the time to. But the Tennis shots will not be online again and there is a good reason for that to. ex.bolanski.com

November 25th, 2007, 01:53 PM	#42
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Andreas thank your for the vignette tests! Question, was the aperture wide open for these tests shots? If it has a vignetting problem, you will see it more with the aperture wide open. I did not see any vignetting issues in your samples. I believe some of us wonder if you were to pan the camera from left to right while doing this test, would a vignetting issue show itself? Hey, is it just me or is this camera extremely clean! I can not believe shooting the wall in that low light condition that the image is that clean! Amazing. It's also has a lot of detail.

November 25th, 2007, 02:17 PM	#43
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	About 4 to 5 seconds into Andreas' 1080p25 clip there is a very slight darkening in the upper left corner. Likewise in the 720 clip (which zooms out rather than in) there is the same slight darkening toward the wide side. Both of these seem to happen at the same focal length on the lens. It seems to be a less severe version of what Paul Joy is describing, in that it does not happen at either zoom extreme, but at a point in the middle, close to the wide side. This slight darkening, combined with OIS and different aperture or focus settings could be what's causing the more extreme cases. What's happening on Andreas' camera is perfectly acceptable to me, and I won't cancel my order over it. On a film camera this would be considered within spec (I've seen much worse than that make it to the big screen). But if it got much more extreme than that I wold start to get concerned.

November 25th, 2007, 02:24 PM	#44
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, it's "very-very" slight. It may not be noiticable at all for some. But you may be right - what will it look like if the camera is panned with OIS on? I will perform this test at the end of next week.