Price just got better.... at DVinfo.net

Travis Binkle · October 30th, 2007, 11:37 AM

B&H now has it listed at $ 6,699.00

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520761-REG

Can't wait to see where they are at on price with the SxS cards.

Any thoughts on the price drop? Will it get any lower before they ship?

Steven Thomas · October 30th, 2007, 05:19 PM

Well I'm in.
Myself and coworker just ordered for the same price including the BP-U60 battery.

Eric Stemen · October 30th, 2007, 11:22 PM

I can't believe the price is that low. If I had money I would be all in....after buying lights.

Paul Cronin · October 31st, 2007, 07:39 AM

I just made this call.

If you placed a pre-order for the EX1 with B&H at $6999 just call the customer service number on your order and they will lower the price to $6699.

Brian Standing · October 31st, 2007, 10:46 AM

Does the fact that it is 100% solid state mean that it will be less expensive to manufacture than a tape or disk-based camera?

Craig Seeman · October 31st, 2007, 10:53 AM

I think that's part of the reason why they were able to add other features. No tape mechanism = more stuff in other areas.

I hope/believe the savings will be in maintenance. No tape path or head issues. That's a HUGE chunck of a user's maintenance costs.

They are using a fan inside though to cool the chips. That concerns me. If the fan goes is it going to take the CMOS chips with it? That'll be EXPENSIVE!

If the fan throws a warning and shuts down to save the chips that would be good. I asked Sony reps about this but it was too geeky a maintenance question for them to answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

Does the fact that it is 100% solid state mean that it will be less expensive to manufacture than a tape or disk-based camera?

Greg Boston · October 31st, 2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

If the fan throws a warning and shuts down to save the chips that would be good. I asked Sony reps about this but it was too geeky a maintenance question for them to answer.

That's certainly true of the full size XDCAM HD cameras. They will shut down in an overheat condition.

-gb-

Craig Seeman · October 31st, 2007, 11:23 AM

Fan replacement should be only a minor pain compared to chips of course and certainly should be less frequent than tap path mechanisms.

Sony rep did say it should be very hard for dust to get in there and affect fan.

I wonder how frequent are there laser or "spin" issue on disc models.

In general one of the factors in actual cost is maintenance costs. I think in general card based systems should be very good in that area.

Greg Boston · October 31st, 2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I wonder how frequent are there laser or "spin" issue on disc models.

Not often. In fact, their broadcast cameras have traditionally had a 1 year warranty. However, the XDCAM disc cameras have a 5 year warranty. Due in part to the video disc unit's higher reliability than tape mechanisms. It's also less expensive to replace the VDU than the heads on Betacam stuff.

I had to research the warranty issue last year when I had a failure on the shutter control board.

-gb-

Craig Seeman · October 31st, 2007, 02:08 PM

Impressive Greg.

When people think of price they should factor in long term maintenance. Assuming EX1 is as reliable as the 350 (and 355?) that's a long term savings.

Steven Thomas · October 31st, 2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

Impressive Greg.

When people think of price they should factor in long term maintenance. Assuming EX1 is as reliable as the 350 (and 355?) that's a long term savings.

True, with the EX1 really has no moving parts short of the fan, it should hold up well.

Mike Williams · October 31st, 2007, 10:41 PM

For me the cost of the EX over the Z1 is not even a factor anymore. The more peace of mind I have that less can go wrong inside the camera the better. Event shooters like us can't go back and say sorry the heads went out and we don't have any footage of your ceremony. I really can't wait to get my hands on one of these things.

Mike

Stil Williams · November 1st, 2007, 03:43 AM

Out of curiosity how many of you in your careers have had tapes ( excluding betacam) jammed, ripped, chewed and drop outs that caused you to loose work and banished as a cameraman because of this terrible mishap ?

"The more peace of mind I have that less can go wrong inside the camera the better. Event shooters like us can't go back and say sorry the heads went out and we don't have any footage of your ceremony. I really can't wait to get my hands on one of these things."
Mike Williams

Heads don't go out like light bulbs or electronics they give some kind of tell tale signs unlike solid state memory.

If hard drive/ solid state technology is better than tape based so to speak,then why do data centre still backup on tape- apart from the fact its cheaper per GB ?

There is an element of failure in every device no matter how big, small or expensive.

I would trust Convergent Designs more than Sonys SxS recording media, reasons i wont get into now...

Craig Seeman · November 1st, 2007, 07:34 AM

As someone who has been a video engineer, part of that job has included mangled tape, dealing with tape when the camera was mistracking, tape drop outs. For acquisition I'd MUCH RATHER be dealing with solid state media.

Stil, your talking about Archive, NOT aquisition. Archive to a tape drive is secure. A tape record mechanism in a camera, it's tape path, it's tape eject mechanism, the mechanism that feeds the tape around such heads, is NOT secure and cannot be compared to a tape drive backup system.

Steven Thomas · November 1st, 2007, 08:30 AM

Solid state any day man over mechanical movement. Tape head, tape path mechanics, eject system, load system... enough said!

October 30th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#1
Travis Binkle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 84	Price just got better.... B&H now has it listed at $ 6,699.00 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520761-REG Can't wait to see where they are at on price with the SxS cards. Any thoughts on the price drop? Will it get any lower before they ship? Last edited by Travis Binkle; October 30th, 2007 at 01:01 PM.

October 31st, 2007, 07:39 AM	#4
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	I just made this call. If you placed a pre-order for the EX1 with B&H at $6999 just call the customer service number on your order and they will lower the price to $6699. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 31st, 2007, 10:46 AM	#5
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	Does the fact that it is 100% solid state mean that it will be less expensive to manufacture than a tape or disk-based camera? __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

October 31st, 2007, 10:41 PM	#12
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	At what cost Reputation? For me the cost of the EX over the Z1 is not even a factor anymore. The more peace of mind I have that less can go wrong inside the camera the better. Event shooters like us can't go back and say sorry the heads went out and we don't have any footage of your ceremony. I really can't wait to get my hands on one of these things. Mike

November 1st, 2007, 03:43 AM	#13
Stil Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 34	Out of curiosity how many of you in your careers have had tapes ( excluding betacam) jammed, ripped, chewed and drop outs that caused you to loose work and banished as a cameraman because of this terrible mishap ? "The more peace of mind I have that less can go wrong inside the camera the better. Event shooters like us can't go back and say sorry the heads went out and we don't have any footage of your ceremony. I really can't wait to get my hands on one of these things." Mike Williams Heads don't go out like light bulbs or electronics they give some kind of tell tale signs unlike solid state memory. If hard drive/ solid state technology is better than tape based so to speak,then why do data centre still backup on tape- apart from the fact its cheaper per GB ? There is an element of failure in every device no matter how big, small or expensive. I would trust Convergent Designs more than Sonys SxS recording media, reasons i wont get into now... Last edited by Stil Williams; November 1st, 2007 at 04:18 AM. Reason: extend to post

October 30th, 2007, 05:19 PM	#2
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Well I'm in. Myself and coworker just ordered for the same price including the BP-U60 battery.

October 30th, 2007, 11:22 PM	#3
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	I can't believe the price is that low. If I had money I would be all in....after buying lights.

October 31st, 2007, 11:23 AM	#8
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Fan replacement should be only a minor pain compared to chips of course and certainly should be less frequent than tap path mechanisms. Sony rep did say it should be very hard for dust to get in there and affect fan. I wonder how frequent are there laser or "spin" issue on disc models. In general one of the factors in actual cost is maintenance costs. I think in general card based systems should be very good in that area.

October 31st, 2007, 02:08 PM	#10
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Impressive Greg. When people think of price they should factor in long term maintenance. Assuming EX1 is as reliable as the 350 (and 355?) that's a long term savings.

November 1st, 2007, 07:34 AM	#14
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	As someone who has been a video engineer, part of that job has included mangled tape, dealing with tape when the camera was mistracking, tape drop outs. For acquisition I'd MUCH RATHER be dealing with solid state media. Stil, your talking about Archive, NOT aquisition. Archive to a tape drive is secure. A tape record mechanism in a camera, it's tape path, it's tape eject mechanism, the mechanism that feeds the tape around such heads, is NOT secure and cannot be compared to a tape drive backup system.

November 1st, 2007, 08:30 AM	#15
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Solid state any day man over mechanical movement. Tape head, tape path mechanics, eject system, load system... enough said!