XDCAM and low light

Mike Williams · October 16th, 2007, 07:22 PM

I did not want to go where Adam went since my experience with the HVX totaled about 5 minutes. The venue was DARK and the entire time I had with the Panny was trying to get it to look like my Z. I gave up and handed it back to the owner.

Yes please brighten reality!!! I'll take that any day :) As I have mentioned the less wattage light I need the lighter my kit and the happier I am :)

As well as getting some candid shots otherwise not attainable with a big light.

Serena Steuart · October 16th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

Yes please brighten reality!!! I'll take that any day :)

"brightening reality" is a technical term I haven't previously encountered, so maybe someone will explain. Making people feel better about depressing circumstances, yes, OK, understood.

Vaughan Wood · October 16th, 2007, 07:52 PM

"Brightening Reality" is not a technical term Serena.

The old VX2000/PD 150 could see into a dark corner better than the human eye, wonderful for capturing intimate moments at weddings etc., and is what many of us have been wanting again.

The EX did manage to look as though it could achieve this to a small degree in the 1 minute play some of us had with it in Melbourne, when we took it off the tripod and pointed it to the opposite corner of the room and took a tight shot of a Pakistani? gentlemen who had no direct light on him at all.

Not quite a technical set up, but the 4 -5 of us that were craning to see the LCD were more than encouraged by what we saw, but of cause have no way of referencing that back to what we were really seeing, if you get my drift.

Cheers Vaughan

Serena Steuart · October 16th, 2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughan Wood

"Brightening Reality" is not a technical term Serena.

The old VX2000/PD 150 could see into a dark corner better than the human eye, wonderful for capturing intimate moments at weddings etc., and is what many of us have been wanting again.

The EX did manage to look as though it could achieve this to a small degree in the 1 minute play some of us had with it in Melbourne, when we took it off the tripod and pointed it to the opposite corner of the room and took a tight shot of a Pakistani? gentlemen who had no direct light on him at all.

Thanks Vaughan for explaining what you were all meaning by the term and I can understand its usefulness when assessment time is short. However I'd be wondering how the brightness of the LCD was set, and do never myself set exposure by the appearance of that display. The addition of histogram and centre brightness reading on the EX in addition to zebras are very valuable facilities and much more reliable.

I expect your subject was Noel from Tasman AV (Indian). I noticed the group of you using it handheld. I think that was after I set it to Cinegamma 4 and wound up black stretch, but I can't really remember the sequence of events or whether I fully reset black stretch. Winding black stretch as far as 50 impressively brought up detail in shadows, but I could assess the quality of image only on the monitor and without time to be critical.
The easiest way to broadly assess low light capability (before you have the camera) is to check out lighting based on 800-1000 ISO. That will give good images without risk of artifacts. 2 stops more sensitive than the Z1/FX1 at 0 dB, or 1 stop less sensitive than the Z1 set at 18dB. Increasing gain to 18dB on the EX gives you an extra 3.5 stops, or 2.5 better than the Z1. So if you have given away your exposure meter you can use your Z1 to check out the appraisal you made on the day. In addition, on the EX, you can play with gamma and black stretch to push it further, but without testing I've no idea how far one can go without introducing unacceptable noise or the artifacts Bob mentioned. These will be important if you have to shoot under such conditions.

Christopher Barry · October 24th, 2007, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

The addition of histogram and centre brightness reading on the EX in addition to zebras are very valuable facilities and much more reliable.

I expect your subject was Noel from Tasman AV (Indian).

I am still getting up to speed on some of the EX information released. Are you saying there is a histogram/brightness graph or display in the LCD or it would be a good feature? I need to find more detailed literature on this. Invaluable tools, if included in the EX.

When I rang Tasman this morning, I landed Noel in sales and quickly struck a deal on the EX. Funny, small world, world wide forum. EX, I can't wait!

Thanks, feedback appreciated, Serena.

Vaughan Wood · October 24th, 2007, 06:08 PM

There is availability of both a histogram and/or brightness display in the LCD.
Get Noel to send you a brochure or download it from the sticky at the top of this forum

Cheers Vaughan

Wes Thomas Greene · October 24th, 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Barry

I am still getting up to speed on some of the EX information released. Are you saying there is a histogram/brightness graph or display in the LCD or it would be a good feature? I need to find more detailed literature on this. Invaluable tools, if included in the EX.

When I rang Tasman this morning, I landed Noel in sales and quickly struck a deal on the EX. Funny, small world, world wide forum. EX, I can't wait!

Thanks, feedback appreciated, Serena.

So what did you pay?? Be great to know what the Aust price is turning out to be.

cheers

Christopher Barry · October 24th, 2007, 07:06 PM

Thanks Vaughan, I will dig deeper into the info already posted here.

Wes, Tasman bundled a few extras in their deal. Around AU$10k spent on their bundle, delivered.

Serena Steuart · October 25th, 2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Thomas Greene

So what did you pay?? Be great to know what the Aust price is turning out to be.

cheers

The camera (2 x 8Gb cards) can be bought for A$9K -- depends on your bargaining power. The RRP (initial offer) is A$10439.

Vaughan Wood · October 25th, 2007, 01:47 AM

Wow Serena,

You better go and renegotiate mine for me (LOL)!

Cheers Vaughan

Serena Steuart · October 25th, 2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughan Wood

Wow Serena,

You better go and renegotiate mine for me (LOL)!

Cheers Vaughan

Ah, that wasn't my price! That was the interim outcome of the proposal I mentioned last week!

Christopher Barry · October 25th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

Ah, that wasn't my price! That was the interim outcome of the proposal I mentioned last week!

Please tell me more about this proposal, Serena? I missed that reference. I may order a second cam sooner or later. Thanks.

Kevin Shaw · October 25th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Also you must remember that each individual pixel is of a much smaller size on the EX1 than on the HVX, because of its number.

I was wondering about that myself, but if I calculate right it should be about the same given the increased chip size versus total number of pixels. And either way, one would hope that a larger sensor would yield some low-light advantage.

In regards to the test possibly being fudged or bungled, I'd say the HVX200 shot looks plausible at 0 db gain for any of the 1/3" chip HD cameras. Such cameras haven't been particularly good in low light, which is one of the big reasons people are interested in the EX1.

October 16th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#46
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	Here Here I did not want to go where Adam went since my experience with the HVX totaled about 5 minutes. The venue was DARK and the entire time I had with the Panny was trying to get it to look like my Z. I gave up and handed it back to the owner. Yes please brighten reality!!! I'll take that any day :) As I have mentioned the less wattage light I need the lighter my kit and the happier I am :) As well as getting some candid shots otherwise not attainable with a big light.

October 16th, 2007, 07:52 PM	#48
Vaughan Wood Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 278	"Brightening Reality" is not a technical term Serena. The old VX2000/PD 150 could see into a dark corner better than the human eye, wonderful for capturing intimate moments at weddings etc., and is what many of us have been wanting again. The EX did manage to look as though it could achieve this to a small degree in the 1 minute play some of us had with it in Melbourne, when we took it off the tripod and pointed it to the opposite corner of the room and took a tight shot of a Pakistani? gentlemen who had no direct light on him at all. Not quite a technical set up, but the 4 -5 of us that were craning to see the LCD were more than encouraged by what we saw, but of cause have no way of referencing that back to what we were really seeing, if you get my drift. Cheers Vaughan

October 24th, 2007, 06:08 PM	#51
Vaughan Wood Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 278	There is availability of both a histogram and/or brightness display in the LCD. Get Noel to send you a brochure or download it from the sticky at the top of this forum Cheers Vaughan

October 24th, 2007, 07:06 PM	#53
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	Thanks Vaughan, I will dig deeper into the info already posted here. Wes, Tasman bundled a few extras in their deal. Around AU$10k spent on their bundle, delivered.

October 25th, 2007, 01:47 AM	#55
Vaughan Wood Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 278	Wow Serena, You better go and renegotiate mine for me (LOL)! Cheers Vaughan