So why do you want a Sony XDCAM EX ?

Kevin Shaw · September 19th, 2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Sony has since stated clearly that *fast* SxS cards will be an absolute necessity for the EX1.

It makes no sense for this to be true from a technical standpoint, since the recording codec maxes out at 35 Mbps (4+ MB/sec) and this should be easily feasible to record on good standard memory cards. If current "SSD" cards can't sustain that kind of write speed Sony should have asked SanDisk to just modify their best CompactFlash memory to fit an ExpressCard format and be done with it, instead of cooking up a whole new type of memory which costs several times what it should.

As far as the recording modes are concerned, I thought XDCAM had an even lower bandwidth option around 18 Mbps and I don't see that listed for the EX1. I wonder what happened there.

Greg Boston · September 19th, 2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

As far as the recording modes are concerned, I thought XDCAM had an even lower bandwidth option around 18 Mbps and I don't see that listed for the EX1. I wonder what happened there.

Perhaps it doesn't get used much. I don't think I have ever used that mode on my camera. Sony told us that 18mb was designed to fit satellite and microwave channel bandwidths for ENG. Since the EX is not aimed at ENG use, they may have felt it unnecessary. But the EX gets 720P and the current XDCAM HD full size cameras don't have that. So in my mind, it's a wash.

-gb-

Aidan Wynne · September 19th, 2007, 11:21 AM

I want to have a camera that is future proof for a few years and that I am not afraid of having to send back to the store for heads to be replaced.
No moving parts!

I love the fact that the Ex has the 1080P format to choose from right from the off.

I also want one cause I want one!!

Steven Thomas · September 19th, 2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aidan Wynne

I also want one cause I want one!!

LOL. I hear you there! It's quite the disease we all have!

One concern I have is noise. Yes, I am a noise freak!
1/2" CCD should help, but at the same time, the CCDs are 1920x1080; therefore the image sensors "may" be smaller than a comparative CCD such as JVC 1/3" 1280x720 CCD. My guess is they are.

Although, I'm excited about 1920x1080 CCDs.

OTOH, I remember the same 1080 excitement during the pre release of the HVX200. We all know the rest of that story....

Chris Hurd · September 19th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

...the image sensors "may" be smaller than a comparative CCD such as JVC 1/3" 1280x720 CCD.

You mean the actual pixels themselves, that is, the individual photosites; not the entire image sensor.

Steven Thomas · September 19th, 2007, 12:52 PM

Yes...

"not enough coffee"

Barlow Elton · September 19th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Question: Does the EX's 1080 24p 35 mbs HQ mode record *only* 24 frames per second, or is it once again standard pulldown to 60i? I would really prefer a 24 fps approach ala Canon's 24F HDV mode as it doesn't waste bandwidth on redundant frames and makes 24p editing much easier.

Anyone know the skinny on this?

Chris Hurd · September 19th, 2007, 02:11 PM

Hey Barlow, it is indeed native 23.98P when recording 1080 or 720 video in the 35Mbps HQ mode. However there is the "economy" SP mode which is 1440 video, and that's the 24PsF version which is recorded as 60i with 2:3 pulldown. So the answer to your question is, it's both ways -- a straight, native 24P in the high quality mode, and a 2:3 pulldown version in the economy mode. Hope this helps,

Craig Seeman · September 19th, 2007, 02:46 PM

It seems "economy" mode is very HDVish. I too was thinking of 18mbps as "economy." There are only 2 data rates though, 35mbps VBR and 25mbps CBR. I just don't think of 25mbps as "economy" but that's just me.

As to SxS at DVExpo East, the person speaking was an official Sony rep speaking under Sony "marching orders." That was made quite clear as there were certain things he REFUSED to talk about. The low cost card compatibility was part of the PowerPoint presentation I believe . . . so clearly something HAS changed.

It may be that testing beefore final release found reliability issues with low cost cards. It may be that Sony felt they should take an "official" position for technical reasons and yet such cards, or certain ones MIGHT (might not) work. Just speculation though.

Do keep in mind that my Sony NTSC DV camera can play PAL DV tapes and that my Sony DSR-11 allegedly plays DVCPro tapes (not through firewire though). Neither of those features are mentioned in any Sony documentation. I also understand that some consumer Sony miniDV cams can play DV tapes recorded in DVCAM mode too.

As to whether there's a change in position or function or both we won't know until someone, I'm sure, does some testing of the low cost "slow" cards and report on that at some point.

Zsolt Gordos · September 19th, 2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

LOL. I hear you there! It's quite the disease we all have!

One concern I have is noise. Yes, I am a noise freak!
1/2" CCD should help, but at the same time, the CCDs are 1920x1080; therefore the image sensors "may" be smaller than a comparative CCD such as JVC 1/3" 1280x720 CCD. My guess is they are.

Although, I'm excited about 1920x1080 CCDs.

Errmm... did I miss out something? My understanding is that XDCAM EX will come with CMOS sensors:

"Offering a networked HD product at an affordable price, the newest XDCAM member, XDCAM EX™ - is a powerful HD handheld camcorder with incredible feature sets that include three ½-inch CMOS sensors, amazing full 1920 x 1080 and 1280 x 720 HD recording capability plus flash memory recording."

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...m_family.shtml

Chris Hurd · September 19th, 2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos

My understanding is that XDCAM EX will come with CMOS sensors...

Yes, the EX1 has three CMOS sensors, not CCDs... blame Steven Thomas a second time for not having had enough coffee.

Barlow Elton · September 19th, 2007, 02:59 PM

Wow, very cool. Just incredible specs on this cam. Very compelling.

Can't wait to see it in person next week at a local seminar.

Chris Hurd · September 19th, 2007, 03:07 PM

Be sure to get your hands on it Barlow and check out the lens... it's the best of both worlds; full manual the way manual was meant to be plus full auto... the focus ring has a pretty cool feature, slide it forward for auto or back for manual... also check out the DOF guage in the viewfinder; lots of really interesting things going on with this camera. I had just a few minutes with it yesterday and there's a lot to take in!

Barlow Elton · September 19th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Sure thing, Chris. I'll check out all these things and report back. (manual lens capability is a big, BIG deal to me) I will also see if I can coax the rolling shutter "wobble" out of it and see if it's considerable (HV20) or negligible. (Red?) My hope is that this is something that's at least been improved upon compared to the other Sony CMOS cameras because I personally believe it's an issue not to be taken lightly.

Craig Seeman · September 19th, 2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

. . . Since the EX is not aimed at ENG use, . . .
-gb-

Another speculative question but I wonder why it's not aimed for ENG use. No not DV/DVCAM but at least one XDCAM SD mode?

In my area I see a fair number of stations using the HVX100 as ENG cameras. My guess is they're recording DVCPro50 to P2.

I know there are a fair number of news outlets also using XDCAM and I can only guess many of them would like an XDCAM SD equivalent to the HVX200.

In NYC, NY1 News now has a lot of "1 person" crews using the HVX200 and RNN in Westchester NY also for specific examples.

Could it be Sony is hoping that the EX1 will push news into HD? Just speculation of course.

September 19th, 2007, 02:11 PM	#23
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hey Barlow, it is indeed native 23.98P when recording 1080 or 720 video in the 35Mbps HQ mode. However there is the "economy" SP mode which is 1440 video, and that's the 24PsF version which is recorded as 60i with 2:3 pulldown. So the answer to your question is, it's both ways -- a straight, native 24P in the high quality mode, and a 2:3 pulldown version in the economy mode. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 19th, 2007, 03:07 PM	#28
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Be sure to get your hands on it Barlow and check out the lens... it's the best of both worlds; full manual the way manual was meant to be plus full auto... the focus ring has a pretty cool feature, slide it forward for auto or back for manual... also check out the DOF guage in the viewfinder; lots of really interesting things going on with this camera. I had just a few minutes with it yesterday and there's a lot to take in! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 19th, 2007, 11:21 AM	#18
Aidan Wynne Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: EIRE Posts: 29	I want to have a camera that is future proof for a few years and that I am not afraid of having to send back to the store for heads to be replaced. No moving parts! I love the fact that the Ex has the 1080P format to choose from right from the off. I also want one cause I want one!!

September 19th, 2007, 12:52 PM	#21
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes... "not enough coffee"

September 19th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#22
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Question: Does the EX's 1080 24p 35 mbs HQ mode record only 24 frames per second, or is it once again standard pulldown to 60i? I would really prefer a 24 fps approach ala Canon's 24F HDV mode as it doesn't waste bandwidth on redundant frames and makes 24p editing much easier. Anyone know the skinny on this?

September 19th, 2007, 02:46 PM	#24
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	It seems "economy" mode is very HDVish. I too was thinking of 18mbps as "economy." There are only 2 data rates though, 35mbps VBR and 25mbps CBR. I just don't think of 25mbps as "economy" but that's just me. As to SxS at DVExpo East, the person speaking was an official Sony rep speaking under Sony "marching orders." That was made quite clear as there were certain things he REFUSED to talk about. The low cost card compatibility was part of the PowerPoint presentation I believe . . . so clearly something HAS changed. It may be that testing beefore final release found reliability issues with low cost cards. It may be that Sony felt they should take an "official" position for technical reasons and yet such cards, or certain ones MIGHT (might not) work. Just speculation though. Do keep in mind that my Sony NTSC DV camera can play PAL DV tapes and that my Sony DSR-11 allegedly plays DVCPro tapes (not through firewire though). Neither of those features are mentioned in any Sony documentation. I also understand that some consumer Sony miniDV cams can play DV tapes recorded in DVCAM mode too. As to whether there's a change in position or function or both we won't know until someone, I'm sure, does some testing of the low cost "slow" cards and report on that at some point.

September 19th, 2007, 02:59 PM	#27
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Wow, very cool. Just incredible specs on this cam. Very compelling. Can't wait to see it in person next week at a local seminar.

September 19th, 2007, 03:11 PM	#29
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Sure thing, Chris. I'll check out all these things and report back. (manual lens capability is a big, BIG deal to me) I will also see if I can coax the rolling shutter "wobble" out of it and see if it's considerable (HV20) or negligible. (Red?) My hope is that this is something that's at least been improved upon compared to the other Sony CMOS cameras because I personally believe it's an issue not to be taken lightly.