Matching PD170 & VX2100 to other cameras

Richard Zlamany · October 18th, 2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Saavedra

For those that own both these cams and do wedding events. How do you guys match these two cams before shooting the reception?

My problem is during the reception when the house lights dims and I have to use manual gain and exposure. The PD170 has independent control and sometime set it to F1.6 and 12dB as an example. But as everyone knows, you can't set the VX2100 the same way. It's OPEN and 12dB. So it is much brighter than the PD. How do you guys deal with these? How do you guys set your PD and VX.

TIA,
JR

Hi, what does this mean you can't set the vx2100 the same way? I thought vx2100 had the same manual controls the pd170 has. Is this not true?

John Laird · October 19th, 2005, 09:57 AM

Some info about the cameras in question. The PD170 and the VX2100 use the same optics and post-processing hardware as each other. Likewise the PD150 and the VX2000 use the same optics and post-processing hardware. The PD150 and the PD170 are not the same as the VX2100 and the VX2000 are not the same. The main advantages of a PD over a VX are XLR audio and separate iris and gain controls, not to mention the VX has auto shutoff (not a preferred feature IMHO). The PD is from Sony's Professional line of cameras and the VX is considered high end consumer by Sony. Completely different levels of support. The Z1U and the FX1 follow along these lines too.

We shoot with a PD170 and a VX2000 for our weddings. Not an ideal mix but in decent light and white balanced, the differences between the two are negligable. The hard part comes when the lights go down. The noise is much more prevalent on the VX as expected. Not much you can do about it except know the limitations of the camera and when and where to use it. You can compensate for the difference in light sensitivity between the two in post somewhat but that can only go so far.

John

Tom Hardwick · October 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM

John Laird's spot on, as anyone who knows anything about mass production and quality control will testify. The VX2k1 and the PD170 share the same lens, chip-block and processing electronics, and to make it otherwisde would cost Sony dear.

With that out of the way, you can believe that when both cameras are allowed to use f/1.6 and 12dB of gain up they'll match one-another, barring production, build and assembly tolerances. So I'm not quite sure what Ray's seeing when he claims 'better blacks' as I'm sure he's not leaving that observation to the crude side-screen output. And f/1.6 means 'open'. They're one and the same when (and only when) both camera zooms are set to maximum wide-angle.

tom.

Richard Zlamany · October 19th, 2005, 06:17 PM

The vx2100 has 3 x 1/3" CCD 380,000 Pixels (340,000 Effective Pixels)
Advanced HAD CCD Technology.

The pd170 has 3-CCD, 1/3-Inch Interline Transfer-type
380,000 Pixels Each.

Are these the same ccds?

I too shoot weddings and for the ceremony I would like to use 2 cameras. I own a pd170 and I am considering a vx2100. Is the vx2100 a good choice to pair with the pd170?

Tom Hardwick · October 20th, 2005, 03:21 AM

They'll pair well together Richard because they're one and the same camera, barring audio, menus, aperture control wheel and a few other things.

Ezra Hiller · April 27th, 2006, 01:08 PM

I've been using VX2100. Great camera.
As I don't want to reinvent the wheel and .... i'm being lazy. Does anyone have specific suggestions as to the settings to match it to a JVC GY5000 camera?

Ezra

Troy Davis · May 2nd, 2006, 10:10 AM

Hello,

Can someone tell me the best way to match these two camera so that the video clips are similar in post? One seems to be more vivid than the other.

Thanks,
Troy

Don Bloom · May 2nd, 2006, 02:13 PM

The 2100 is probably more vivid I would guess. Try playing with the Custom Presets a bit on both cameras to get them closer-you actually should be able to get a virtually perfect match.
I recently did a job with 2 other guys I used my 150, 1 guy used a 170 and another used a DSR250-the footage came out about as close as you could get without it being shot on the same camera BUT we got together BEFORE and set the cameras with the CP before the shoot. It certainly helped in post.

Don

Jay Lee · March 8th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Hi there, has anyone here tried to match the images generated by the PD-170 with those from a DSR-400? If so, how do they hold up? How big a difference is there in quality. I'm thinking in terms of a two camera shoot where the PD-170 is doing a wide shot and the DSR is shooting cut aways (or the reverse if that would be better). The situation would be shooting seminars in a hotel ballroom.
Thanks

Graham Risdon · March 8th, 2007, 01:05 PM

Just finished a shoot with a DSR-450, a DSR-250 and a PD-150 - the editor says its cutting together fine although some clips do require some colour correction, but I haven't seen it myself. As you'd expect, the outside shots in good daylight are best, and we were quite careful white balancing the shots...

Also, we did a quick test a week or so before the shoot, so it may be worth trying to arrange this

Hope this helps

Jason Marcinko · June 22nd, 2007, 01:13 PM

I shoot and own both the PD and the VX, and untill recently I decided that it was too much effort to play and match up the sound between the 2 cameras in post. So I decided to put the shotgun mic that came standard with the PD on a boom and run that to a cheap mic-splitter ( splitcom ART mic splitter/combiner) with a built in transformer, and then XLR cable to both cameras, (I found an XLR cable, with a mini jack plug on one side of it, for the VX). This allows me to record sound from the shotgun on both cameras. Alot easier to edit in post!

Well, this is the first time I did it this way and I was really dissappointed with the humming and static on the raw footage. I got rid of the humming with a de-hummer, but sound is still crap! The interference is definately comming from this setup and not from any outside sources, like A/C, refrigerators, ect...

I just wanted to see if anyone else on this forum had a simular problem in the past, and hear from them, or anyone who would have any suggestions how I can achive what I am trying to do, in a better quality mannor. I was trying to avoid purchacing a unit like the beachtec, but unsure if it will work for what I am trying to do, since the PD is supplying 48V. to the mic already.

I am trying to record the same sound on both cameras from 1 shotgun mic, minus humming, and static, and without a big box attached underneath the VX. The mic splitter that I purchaced is manageable since it lies on the floor and out of our ways. It would be nice if I can find something similar or, something smaller altogether that I can attach to the camera. I do plan on upgrading the shotgun mic at some point, but its pointless having an expensive mic with static and humming.

Thanks

David Ennis · June 24th, 2007, 06:09 AM

Hi Jason. First, I don't think that one mic for two cameras is a good idea. Most of us go out of our way to have more than one audio track for two main reasons, good coverage and backup. Aligning the tracks is easy in any good NLE as long as you keep both cams running for the whole event, rather that hit pause/record on them independently.

What is the purpose of having two copies of the same audio track anyway?

But having said that, your technical problem is probably the XLR cable going to the VX. It's not a balanced run if it has a built in mini plug going into the camera. You need to have a cable with XLR connectors at both ends, then a transformer based XLR to miniplug adapter at the camera end.

Running both cams on battery rather than AC power, if that's not what you're already doing, will help reduce hum also.

Jason Marcinko · June 25th, 2007, 08:57 PM

Thanks for your post. Thats going to be the next thing I try, finding an XLR to mini with built in transformer. I figured I didnt need one of them because the splitter had a built in transformer.

We shoot 95% of the time indoors. We just purchaced the PD so we can get a different angle of coverage of the same action. 1 hour of raw footage on both cameras, edit in post for a final output of 20 or so minuets. Having the same sound on 2 tapes helps alot, for me, when trying to match these clips up. So when you watch the final video, you cannot tell 2 different cameras captured it. I can tell the difference as well as any camera guru, but its close enough, the sound was my real problem.

I have seen the term "NLE" before, but never looked into it or know what it is. I will do some reasearch to see if thats a better option for me, but I can tell you, we do stop/start the cameras independantly, 10-20 times in that 1 hour of recording. Thats something we cannot get around.

Any suggestions on a good XLR to mini w/transformer, that doesnt mount to the camera?

Thank you

David Ennis · June 26th, 2007, 12:42 AM

NLE stands for non-linear editor. Like Sony Vegas or Premier Pro. Your approach to editing with two cams is entirely different than mine. Actually, I tape with three cameras. They all tape the whole event without stopping. In Sony Vegas I align them one above the other on the timeline, which is easy in Vegas because you get a visual of the audio peaks. Then I have complete flexibility in choosing which camera angle and which of the three audio audio tracks (or two of them or all three) will be used moment to moment in the final edited version.

Here's a transformer adapter:
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showit...ffiliateID=615

Jason Marcinko · June 27th, 2007, 07:13 PM

Well after talking to my partner, we are going to invest in a Sennheiser Evolution Wireless system. This will get rid of my wires, with a camera mounted reciever (EK100G2) on both cameras, and a (SKP100) transmitter on a battery powered shotgun, this seems like the easiest, efficient, and convenient route for us to take.

Thanks again

April 27th, 2006, 01:08 PM	#36
Ezra Hiller New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 23	Matching Sony to JVC I've been using VX2100. Great camera. As I don't want to reinvent the wheel and .... i'm being lazy. Does anyone have specific suggestions as to the settings to match it to a JVC GY5000 camera? Ezra

May 2nd, 2006, 10:10 AM	#37
Troy Davis Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Raleigh,NC Posts: 263	matching vx2000 and vx2100 Hello, Can someone tell me the best way to match these two camera so that the video clips are similar in post? One seems to be more vivid than the other. Thanks, Troy

March 8th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#39
Jay Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 57	Matching PD-170/DSR 400 images Hi there, has anyone here tried to match the images generated by the PD-170 with those from a DSR-400? If so, how do they hold up? How big a difference is there in quality. I'm thinking in terms of a two camera shoot where the PD-170 is doing a wide shot and the DSR is shooting cut aways (or the reverse if that would be better). The situation would be shooting seminars in a hotel ballroom. Thanks

June 22nd, 2007, 01:13 PM	#41
Jason Marcinko New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	PD170 & VX2100 sound matching I shoot and own both the PD and the VX, and untill recently I decided that it was too much effort to play and match up the sound between the 2 cameras in post. So I decided to put the shotgun mic that came standard with the PD on a boom and run that to a cheap mic-splitter ( splitcom ART mic splitter/combiner) with a built in transformer, and then XLR cable to both cameras, (I found an XLR cable, with a mini jack plug on one side of it, for the VX). This allows me to record sound from the shotgun on both cameras. Alot easier to edit in post! Well, this is the first time I did it this way and I was really dissappointed with the humming and static on the raw footage. I got rid of the humming with a de-hummer, but sound is still crap! The interference is definately comming from this setup and not from any outside sources, like A/C, refrigerators, ect... I just wanted to see if anyone else on this forum had a simular problem in the past, and hear from them, or anyone who would have any suggestions how I can achive what I am trying to do, in a better quality mannor. I was trying to avoid purchacing a unit like the beachtec, but unsure if it will work for what I am trying to do, since the PD is supplying 48V. to the mic already. I am trying to record the same sound on both cameras from 1 shotgun mic, minus humming, and static, and without a big box attached underneath the VX. The mic splitter that I purchaced is manageable since it lies on the floor and out of our ways. It would be nice if I can find something similar or, something smaller altogether that I can attach to the camera. I do plan on upgrading the shotgun mic at some point, but its pointless having an expensive mic with static and humming. Thanks Last edited by Jason Marcinko; June 22nd, 2007 at 01:53 PM.

June 24th, 2007, 06:09 AM	#42
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Hi Jason. First, I don't think that one mic for two cameras is a good idea. Most of us go out of our way to have more than one audio track for two main reasons, good coverage and backup. Aligning the tracks is easy in any good NLE as long as you keep both cams running for the whole event, rather that hit pause/record on them independently. What is the purpose of having two copies of the same audio track anyway? But having said that, your technical problem is probably the XLR cable going to the VX. It's not a balanced run if it has a built in mini plug going into the camera. You need to have a cable with XLR connectors at both ends, then a transformer based XLR to miniplug adapter at the camera end. Running both cams on battery rather than AC power, if that's not what you're already doing, will help reduce hum also. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

October 19th, 2005, 09:57 AM	#32
John Laird Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Waterloo, IA Posts: 32	Some info about the cameras in question. The PD170 and the VX2100 use the same optics and post-processing hardware as each other. Likewise the PD150 and the VX2000 use the same optics and post-processing hardware. The PD150 and the PD170 are not the same as the VX2100 and the VX2000 are not the same. The main advantages of a PD over a VX are XLR audio and separate iris and gain controls, not to mention the VX has auto shutoff (not a preferred feature IMHO). The PD is from Sony's Professional line of cameras and the VX is considered high end consumer by Sony. Completely different levels of support. The Z1U and the FX1 follow along these lines too. We shoot with a PD170 and a VX2000 for our weddings. Not an ideal mix but in decent light and white balanced, the differences between the two are negligable. The hard part comes when the lights go down. The noise is much more prevalent on the VX as expected. Not much you can do about it except know the limitations of the camera and when and where to use it. You can compensate for the difference in light sensitivity between the two in post somewhat but that can only go so far. John

October 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM	#33
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	John Laird's spot on, as anyone who knows anything about mass production and quality control will testify. The VX2k1 and the PD170 share the same lens, chip-block and processing electronics, and to make it otherwisde would cost Sony dear. With that out of the way, you can believe that when both cameras are allowed to use f/1.6 and 12dB of gain up they'll match one-another, barring production, build and assembly tolerances. So I'm not quite sure what Ray's seeing when he claims 'better blacks' as I'm sure he's not leaving that observation to the crude side-screen output. And f/1.6 means 'open'. They're one and the same when (and only when) both camera zooms are set to maximum wide-angle. tom.

October 19th, 2005, 06:17 PM	#34
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	The vx2100 has 3 x 1/3" CCD 380,000 Pixels (340,000 Effective Pixels) Advanced HAD CCD Technology. The pd170 has 3-CCD, 1/3-Inch Interline Transfer-type 380,000 Pixels Each. Are these the same ccds? I too shoot weddings and for the ceremony I would like to use 2 cameras. I own a pd170 and I am considering a vx2100. Is the vx2100 a good choice to pair with the pd170?

October 20th, 2005, 03:21 AM	#35
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	They'll pair well together Richard because they're one and the same camera, barring audio, menus, aperture control wheel and a few other things.

May 2nd, 2006, 02:13 PM	#38
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	The 2100 is probably more vivid I would guess. Try playing with the Custom Presets a bit on both cameras to get them closer-you actually should be able to get a virtually perfect match. I recently did a job with 2 other guys I used my 150, 1 guy used a 170 and another used a DSR250-the footage came out about as close as you could get without it being shot on the same camera BUT we got together BEFORE and set the cameras with the CP before the shoot. It certainly helped in post. Don

March 8th, 2007, 01:05 PM	#40
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Just finished a shoot with a DSR-450, a DSR-250 and a PD-150 - the editor says its cutting together fine although some clips do require some colour correction, but I haven't seen it myself. As you'd expect, the outside shots in good daylight are best, and we were quite careful white balancing the shots... Also, we did a quick test a week or so before the shoot, so it may be worth trying to arrange this Hope this helps

June 25th, 2007, 08:57 PM	#43
Jason Marcinko New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	Thanks for your post. Thats going to be the next thing I try, finding an XLR to mini with built in transformer. I figured I didnt need one of them because the splitter had a built in transformer. We shoot 95% of the time indoors. We just purchaced the PD so we can get a different angle of coverage of the same action. 1 hour of raw footage on both cameras, edit in post for a final output of 20 or so minuets. Having the same sound on 2 tapes helps alot, for me, when trying to match these clips up. So when you watch the final video, you cannot tell 2 different cameras captured it. I can tell the difference as well as any camera guru, but its close enough, the sound was my real problem. I have seen the term "NLE" before, but never looked into it or know what it is. I will do some reasearch to see if thats a better option for me, but I can tell you, we do stop/start the cameras independantly, 10-20 times in that 1 hour of recording. Thats something we cannot get around. Any suggestions on a good XLR to mini w/transformer, that doesnt mount to the camera? Thank you

June 26th, 2007, 12:42 AM	#44
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	NLE stands for non-linear editor. Like Sony Vegas or Premier Pro. Your approach to editing with two cams is entirely different than mine. Actually, I tape with three cameras. They all tape the whole event without stopping. In Sony Vegas I align them one above the other on the timeline, which is easy in Vegas because you get a visual of the audio peaks. Then I have complete flexibility in choosing which camera angle and which of the three audio audio tracks (or two of them or all three) will be used moment to moment in the final edited version. Here's a transformer adapter: http://www.samash.com/catalog/showit...ffiliateID=615 __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

June 27th, 2007, 07:13 PM	#45
Jason Marcinko New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	Well after talking to my partner, we are going to invest in a Sennheiser Evolution Wireless system. This will get rid of my wires, with a camera mounted reciever (EK100G2) on both cameras, and a (SKP100) transmitter on a battery powered shotgun, this seems like the easiest, efficient, and convenient route for us to take. Thanks again Last edited by Jason Marcinko; June 27th, 2007 at 09:01 PM.