Converted to pd-150 at DVinfo.net

Richard Austin · May 14th, 2003, 05:44 AM

Hey guys, ive been on the market for a new cam for a long time now.........torn and twisted between xl1-s and the sony. Ive recently been turned to the pd and the more i think about it the better the option sounds. I Think i realise now that i was simply lusting over the apearence of the xl1-s.

Does anyone have any final crushing comments regarding me choosing the sony? For now it will mainly be used for weddings and med level promo work.

Everything going to plan i should have my pd by the middle of next month. Planning to buy from Singapore.

Thanks for any input.
Rich

Robert Bobson · May 14th, 2003, 05:51 AM

Like you, I went back and forth between the two and finally decided on the PD150.

Then I recently saw some 30 frame progressive shot on the XL-1, and it was beautiful!!

But the shooter say he often has to increase the gain when shooting indoors, so that adds grain.

I'll probably still get the PD150, but I'm not as confident about the decision as I was.

I'm looking forward to others comments regarding this.

Bob

Rick Spilman · May 14th, 2003, 12:18 PM

I do have one bit of advice. If you do get the PD150, set up the custom presets to please your eye. I find the standard Sony out of the box preset to be too blue and a bit unsaturated.

I get a little crazy whenever I hear folks say, "Yah, Sony is OK, but the colors on the XL1 are so much warmer." Play with the color, sharpness and white balance shift until you get exactly the image that you want.

I love my PD150. It is rugged, reliable and can practically see in the dark. A very nice camera.

Tom Hardwick · May 14th, 2003, 01:49 PM

Good line Ron - can practically see in the dark. I love having it on maximum wideangle (which uses the fastest aperture) and gain up all the way. On the side screen the grain isn't too objectionable, and at wedding receptions I show interested guests how it literally seems to 'see in the dark'. They can have almost any other domestic camcorder you care to name, yet in this test the VX majestically trounces them.

tom.

Alan Christensen · May 15th, 2003, 11:28 AM

The low light capability of the VX-2000/PD-150 makes all the difference! You can easily tweak color hue, saturation, ... in post, but you can't make up for a grainy picture, or no picture at all. I have a second videocam besides my 2K that is reputed to have good low light capability. However, its picture is garbage next to the 2K in anything other than daylight. I find that I take advantage of the low light quality almost every time I am shooting an indoor event, even when the lighting seems relatively bright. Go with the PD-150! Tweak the color balance, reduce the saturation and exposure slightly using the custom presets, and you'll never look with envy at a Canon again...

Richard Austin · May 17th, 2003, 04:54 AM

I managed to score a full day of use with the xl1-s today for a production we shot. I had around 8 hours with the xl1-s...this is what i thought:

#The camera was very easy to pick up and use. It didnt take me long to feel comfortable with the ops of the camera.

#The camera looks great

#i was reasonably happy with the image

#image stabiliser is great

some negatives:

#after 20min shooting (on shoulder)my wrist hurt, the cam seemed to be very unstable, although i was only using the standard shoulder support. This said the cam worked great on a pod. The cam is too lens heavy.

#Whats with the zoom noise? Although i didnt need any of the onboard cam sound for my shoot, as i was playing with the cam and listening to the sound the zoom noise was horrific.

#like many have said, the cam struggled in low light. i guess that is kinda usual.

#many times i had to over ride the focus, it simply couldnt handle some of the lighting (flashing and fade ins from black). Perhaps it usual to go manual for this kind of work......With my mx....i havnt had any problems.

At the end of the day i enjoyed using the camera, the image to be honest wasnt what i was expecting. I currently use an mx300 (when it isnt getting repairs :-) and i simply could not tell the difference, and or there wasnt any ore factor regarding the overall camera layout. Put it this way: Im not lusting over it anymore........my next step is to trial the PD-150...ill be using one in around 10 weeks tme.

Rich

Garret Ambrosio · May 20th, 2003, 01:28 PM

I lusted and behind be mind or um wallet I still am lusting over the XL-1S interchangeable lens, 30 FPS progressive scan, blah, blah, blah. but at the end of the day, the PD150 will make you the money. A great line from one of the fine people here in the forums was churches are lit like the Bat Cave. So true and many times the officiator is not all too accomodating (maybe dependent on the condition of the collection ;-P ) to you when you want to bring in a light kit. So with all the lusting, the bottom line is the bottom line, the PD150 is great for weddings because of the low light performance like it has been stated no picture or bad picture will be bad even in post. Also it is really only trivial if none of the XL-1S's strengths will be able to be used in low light indoor wedding shots.

Yang Wen · June 3rd, 2003, 01:47 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Garret Ambrosio : I lusted and behind be mind or um wallet I still am lusting over the XL-1S interchangeable lens, 30 FPS progressive scan, blah, blah, blah. -->>>

The XL1s does NOT have 30FPS PROGRESSIVE, it is a line doubler circuit. When you put it in FRAME mode, you are throwing away half of your total vertical resolution to get rid of the interlacing. The real comparision should be between the GL2(which gives better picture than XL1s BY FAR) and PD150. Both gives great image. BTW, do you know the XL1s uses the same CCD design that's almost 7 years old from the Panasonic EZ1U?

Andre De Clercq · June 4th, 2003, 01:21 PM

Many people love "progressive"...I suppose they mean images captured in frame mode and displayed on a (interlaced) CRT TV or monitor. Because their image is still displayed in interlaced they still keep the annoying interline flicker on vertical transitions (of course reduced by the halved vertical resolution of some pseudo progressive modes). So, what is so wonderfull in viewing a progressive image on an interlaced mode display...the 30/25 Hz stutter?

Brian Pink · June 4th, 2003, 04:45 PM

i had this same dilemma about 6 months ago, and after getting my PD150 and shooting a lot with it and learning to really manipulate the settings, I'm in love. I haven't seen anything shot on DV that I say "hm, i don't think i could achieve that shot with my PD150" and the seeing-in-the-dark has to be experienced to be believed. Open that iris up and notice that your gain stays at 0 in any room with any ambient light at all. Amazing.

Wayne Orr · June 4th, 2003, 05:11 PM

One additional note: the PD150 is practically bullet proof. You will find very few posts talking about sending their PD in for repairs. The Canon, otoh...

Also kudos to the PD150 for the black and white viewfinder. Really helps to focus in difficult situations.

And oh yeah, the autofocus on the PD150 is great! Yeah, I know, "really men don't use autofocus." :-) But you'd be nuts not to take advantage of this capability when the situation requires it.

Kevin Curtis · June 5th, 2003, 11:19 AM

I just purchased a new PD-150 yesterday too.

I started out with an XL1s and I was not happy with the image; I felt it was not sharp enough. Also, it wasn't very good in low-light situations. Therefore, I sold it and bought a Panasonic AG-DVC200. I paid more for the glass on this camera than my XL1s cost. Needless to say the image on this camera gave me what I was looking for, but it is a BIG full-size camera.

Recently, I've been shooting some residential real estate video and I found that I have situations where I need a smaller camera to get the shot. The PD-150 is perfect for this environment. I am amazed at this cameras low-light capabilities in full auto mode. I shoot some test footage of a closet that only has a single 40 watt light bulb using a Canon WD58 adaptor on the camera and the image was outstanding.

I think I'll be grabbing the PD-150 by default now.

BTW, I paid $2975 for it and I bought it from my local dealer. It is great not having to go to order from a New York dealer to get a great deal.

Also, if you need a cheap case for the camera stop by Lowe's and pick-up their Task Force Aluminum Tool Case. They are only $24.95 and they have the corrugated foam that you can mode to any shape you desire. Be aware that they have one called the Guard Force and it does NOT have the foam, but only dividers. I have several Lowe's Stores in my area and one had the one with foam and the other only had the one with the dividers.

Kevin

May 14th, 2003, 05:44 AM	#1
Richard Austin New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 20	Converted to pd-150 Hey guys, ive been on the market for a new cam for a long time now.........torn and twisted between xl1-s and the sony. Ive recently been turned to the pd and the more i think about it the better the option sounds. I Think i realise now that i was simply lusting over the apearence of the xl1-s. Does anyone have any final crushing comments regarding me choosing the sony? For now it will mainly be used for weddings and med level promo work. Everything going to plan i should have my pd by the middle of next month. Planning to buy from Singapore. Thanks for any input. Rich

May 20th, 2003, 01:28 PM	#7
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	I lusted and behind be mind or um wallet I still am lusting over the XL-1S interchangeable lens, 30 FPS progressive scan, blah, blah, blah. but at the end of the day, the PD150 will make you the money. A great line from one of the fine people here in the forums was churches are lit like the Bat Cave. So true and many times the officiator is not all too accomodating (maybe dependent on the condition of the collection ;-P ) to you when you want to bring in a light kit. So with all the lusting, the bottom line is the bottom line, the PD150 is great for weddings because of the low light performance like it has been stated no picture or bad picture will be bad even in post. Also it is really only trivial if none of the XL-1S's strengths will be able to be used in low light indoor wedding shots. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

June 4th, 2003, 04:45 PM	#10
Brian Pink Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 94	i had this same dilemma about 6 months ago, and after getting my PD150 and shooting a lot with it and learning to really manipulate the settings, I'm in love. I haven't seen anything shot on DV that I say "hm, i don't think i could achieve that shot with my PD150" and the seeing-in-the-dark has to be experienced to be believed. Open that iris up and notice that your gain stays at 0 in any room with any ambient light at all. Amazing. __________________ This is the way the world ends.

June 4th, 2003, 05:11 PM	#11
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	One additional note: the PD150 is practically bullet proof. You will find very few posts talking about sending their PD in for repairs. The Canon, otoh... Also kudos to the PD150 for the black and white viewfinder. Really helps to focus in difficult situations. And oh yeah, the autofocus on the PD150 is great! Yeah, I know, "really men don't use autofocus." :-) But you'd be nuts not to take advantage of this capability when the situation requires it. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 14th, 2003, 05:51 AM	#2
Robert Bobson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 585	Like you, I went back and forth between the two and finally decided on the PD150. Then I recently saw some 30 frame progressive shot on the XL-1, and it was beautiful!! But the shooter say he often has to increase the gain when shooting indoors, so that adds grain. I'll probably still get the PD150, but I'm not as confident about the decision as I was. I'm looking forward to others comments regarding this. Bob

May 14th, 2003, 12:18 PM	#3
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	I do have one bit of advice. If you do get the PD150, set up the custom presets to please your eye. I find the standard Sony out of the box preset to be too blue and a bit unsaturated. I get a little crazy whenever I hear folks say, "Yah, Sony is OK, but the colors on the XL1 are so much warmer." Play with the color, sharpness and white balance shift until you get exactly the image that you want. I love my PD150. It is rugged, reliable and can practically see in the dark. A very nice camera.

May 14th, 2003, 01:49 PM	#4
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Good line Ron - can practically see in the dark. I love having it on maximum wideangle (which uses the fastest aperture) and gain up all the way. On the side screen the grain isn't too objectionable, and at wedding receptions I show interested guests how it literally seems to 'see in the dark'. They can have almost any other domestic camcorder you care to name, yet in this test the VX majestically trounces them. tom.

May 15th, 2003, 11:28 AM	#5
Alan Christensen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: California Posts: 139	The low light capability of the VX-2000/PD-150 makes all the difference! You can easily tweak color hue, saturation, ... in post, but you can't make up for a grainy picture, or no picture at all. I have a second videocam besides my 2K that is reputed to have good low light capability. However, its picture is garbage next to the 2K in anything other than daylight. I find that I take advantage of the low light quality almost every time I am shooting an indoor event, even when the lighting seems relatively bright. Go with the PD-150! Tweak the color balance, reduce the saturation and exposure slightly using the custom presets, and you'll never look with envy at a Canon again...

May 17th, 2003, 04:54 AM	#6
Richard Austin New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 20	I managed to score a full day of use with the xl1-s today for a production we shot. I had around 8 hours with the xl1-s...this is what i thought: #The camera was very easy to pick up and use. It didnt take me long to feel comfortable with the ops of the camera. #The camera looks great #i was reasonably happy with the image #image stabiliser is great some negatives: #after 20min shooting (on shoulder)my wrist hurt, the cam seemed to be very unstable, although i was only using the standard shoulder support. This said the cam worked great on a pod. The cam is too lens heavy. #Whats with the zoom noise? Although i didnt need any of the onboard cam sound for my shoot, as i was playing with the cam and listening to the sound the zoom noise was horrific. #like many have said, the cam struggled in low light. i guess that is kinda usual. #many times i had to over ride the focus, it simply couldnt handle some of the lighting (flashing and fade ins from black). Perhaps it usual to go manual for this kind of work......With my mx....i havnt had any problems. At the end of the day i enjoyed using the camera, the image to be honest wasnt what i was expecting. I currently use an mx300 (when it isnt getting repairs :-) and i simply could not tell the difference, and or there wasnt any ore factor regarding the overall camera layout. Put it this way: Im not lusting over it anymore........my next step is to trial the PD-150...ill be using one in around 10 weeks tme. Rich

June 3rd, 2003, 01:47 PM	#8
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	<<<-- Originally posted by Garret Ambrosio : I lusted and behind be mind or um wallet I still am lusting over the XL-1S interchangeable lens, 30 FPS progressive scan, blah, blah, blah. -->>> The XL1s does NOT have 30FPS PROGRESSIVE, it is a line doubler circuit. When you put it in FRAME mode, you are throwing away half of your total vertical resolution to get rid of the interlacing. The real comparision should be between the GL2(which gives better picture than XL1s BY FAR) and PD150. Both gives great image. BTW, do you know the XL1s uses the same CCD design that's almost 7 years old from the Panasonic EZ1U?

June 4th, 2003, 01:21 PM	#9
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Many people love "progressive"...I suppose they mean images captured in frame mode and displayed on a (interlaced) CRT TV or monitor. Because their image is still displayed in interlaced they still keep the annoying interline flicker on vertical transitions (of course reduced by the halved vertical resolution of some pseudo progressive modes). So, what is so wonderfull in viewing a progressive image on an interlaced mode display...the 30/25 Hz stutter?

June 5th, 2003, 11:19 AM	#12
Kevin Curtis New Boot Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 16	I just purchased a new PD-150 yesterday too. I started out with an XL1s and I was not happy with the image; I felt it was not sharp enough. Also, it wasn't very good in low-light situations. Therefore, I sold it and bought a Panasonic AG-DVC200. I paid more for the glass on this camera than my XL1s cost. Needless to say the image on this camera gave me what I was looking for, but it is a BIG full-size camera. Recently, I've been shooting some residential real estate video and I found that I have situations where I need a smaller camera to get the shot. The PD-150 is perfect for this environment. I am amazed at this cameras low-light capabilities in full auto mode. I shoot some test footage of a closet that only has a single 40 watt light bulb using a Canon WD58 adaptor on the camera and the image was outstanding. I think I'll be grabbing the PD-150 by default now. BTW, I paid $2975 for it and I bought it from my local dealer. It is great not having to go to order from a New York dealer to get a great deal. Also, if you need a cheap case for the camera stop by Lowe's and pick-up their Task Force Aluminum Tool Case. They are only $24.95 and they have the corrugated foam that you can mode to any shape you desire. Be aware that they have one called the Guard Force and it does NOT have the foam, but only dividers. I have several Lowe's Stores in my area and one had the one with foam and the other only had the one with the dividers. Kevin