PD150/170 users: when are you moving to HD? at DVinfo.net

Georg Herbet · August 8th, 2006, 01:47 PM

People see my PD170 now and say "is that HD?" I have to be apologetic when I tell them it's not.

You, too?

That tells me the end is near. When are you upgrading?

Martin Mayer · August 8th, 2006, 02:02 PM

Six months ago. :D

Ezra Hiller · August 8th, 2006, 02:38 PM

I just bought my VX2100 a few months ago. I don't see myself switching to HD until at least Feb 2009 (The date the FCC has scheduled for the SDTV to HDTV switch). And then, we'll see what demand there is for HD.

By the way, when I was shooting SVHS (Panasonic AG450), people would come over to me and assume it was a DV camera.

Ezra

Chris Barcellos · August 8th, 2006, 02:40 PM

I have both VX2000 and FX1. FX1 is a great education, and I am using it that way.

John Laird · August 8th, 2006, 02:44 PM

I made the move from my 170 to a Z1U last month. I'm kinda late to the party, but that was by design :) I was just thinking last weekend after having shot a decent amount of footage with it, that my Z is the standard def cam I always wanted. The quality of the high def downconverted to 16:9 standard def in Vegas is what I always dreamed I would have. To be honest, if for whatever reason I never burned a HD-DVD or Blueray disc in my life, the quality of the standard def I get out of this camera was well worth every penny I spent on it.

John

Richard Zlamany · August 8th, 2006, 03:55 PM

I'll switch, after the 2nd or 3rd generation of sony HDV cameras are released and when some clients start asking for it.

Leslie Wand · August 8th, 2006, 05:13 PM

ditto richards comments.

until i see hd tv's in ordinary peoples houses (incl friends in the business), i don't think it's worth the investment, even for the great pics they produce in sd. heck, i hardly know anyone who's actually bought a 16:9 display for home.

with petrol and the cost of living rocketing, i think it's only the reckless, or very rich who will spend big on displays at the moment. a great deal of what you read and hear at the moment is hype from manufacturers, and those in the trade who want a bigger one than yours....

that said, i'll repeat myself yet again - the pictures are great.

leslie

ps. most of the people who see my 170 and ask is it hd know the buzz words and little else. i always ask if they have a hd set - none have, and none have any idea where they'd obtain programs other than free to air or cable. and NONE have any means of playing back hd disks.....

Mike Rehmus · August 8th, 2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezra Hiller

I just bought my VX2100 a few months ago. I don't see myself switching to HD until at least Feb 2009 (The date the FCC has scheduled for the SDTV to HDTV switch). And then, we'll see what demand there is for HD.

By the way, when I was shooting SVHS (Panasonic AG450), people would come over to me and assume it was a DV camera.

Ezra

I think what you are talking about is the switch to all-digital transmission. To my knowledge, there is not and never has been a mandate for HD.

I don't feel appologetic about not driving a Ferrari to go to the store. Same with shooting/viewing SD television. Truth is there isn't much HD available in any media. Joe six-pack cannot normally affort to pop two to five thousand on a screen and then have to pay a lot more for the limited programming that is available. There is still a lot of life left in SD.

Boyd Ostroff · August 8th, 2006, 09:14 PM

Those are good points Mike. But putting aside the HD vs SD debate, The Z1 really does offer a lot of nice upgrades from the PD-170 in terms of image adjustment and manual control. Last weekend I spent awhile with my Z1 connected to a monitor, digging deeper into what some of the controls do. Between WB shift, black stretch, cinegamma, color correction, skin tone detail, color phase and other things I'm probably forgetting, you can really do a lot of cool things on the Z1. And of course there's the issue of high quality anamorphic 16:9 DV which John mentions above. But the PD and VX series are great if you need to shoot in dark places and only need 4:3.

Of course, if you are happy with your current camera then there isn't a lot of reason to switch. There will always be a newer model just around the corner which is cheaper/better/cooler. :-)

Craig Seeman · August 9th, 2006, 11:32 AM

There's two parts to this really. HDV is a much greater expense than the camera itself. It's the potential added workflow time and a setup where you can accurately color correct HD. When my clients will pay more for HD then I'll get it. They're NOT going to get HD at SD prices. I won't give away my services.

On the other hand, as some have pointed out, the HDV cameras are actually significantly improved SD cameras too. I have a hunch the low light noise issue will be improving in the next generation although I understand the obstacles.

I don't like the motion artifacts with HDV, especially since I do slowmo shots. I just don't know how to sell that to a client as an improvement after they've spend thousands on an HDTV and eventually on a HDDVD/BluRay player too.

Add to that, that many production people want shooters to do 24p in camera (vs the 1080i of the Z1).

My fantasy is that Sony comes out with a 1/3" chip version of the F350 which uses 35mbps VBR encoding, 24 and 60p, records to a BluRay Disk (XDCAM) for $8,000 with lens to one up Panasonic's HVX-200 (and it's P2 record time, archival dilemma).

I don't want to have to buy a new camera every year so until I see a longer term viable camera and format, I'll hold my breath.

Georg Liigand · August 26th, 2006, 07:47 AM

I currently have VX2100 and it's certainly one awesome camera. I would say one of the best in its class with PD170. 4:3 is fine for me right now and I don't see HD taking over the standard in the next year or two. As long as there is no reasonable way to deliver the HD content, I am not getting a new camera.

It would be great to have FX1 or Z1 just for widescreen SD shooting and I really like those cameras. However, I don't feel like I want to switch the VX for anything at the moment.

James Connors · September 10th, 2006, 08:16 AM

My feeling is, that if someone sees such a "standard" camera as the PD150/170 and asks whether its HD, it's most likely a case of them simply following buzzwords they don't really know much about, rather than showing a true understanding of the differences between SD and HD anyway. If you said "yes" and showed them the output, would they believe you? Probably.

Richard Zlamany · September 10th, 2006, 12:30 PM

James, I have thought the same thing.

Boyd Ostroff · September 10th, 2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Zlam

I'll switch, after the 2nd or 3rd generation of sony HDV cameras are released

Hmm, I suppose it depends on how you count but an argument like this might be made:

1st generation: FX1 and Z1 (3 CCD)
2nd generation: HC1, HC3 and A1 (1 CMOS)
3rd generation: FX7 and V1 (3 CMOS)

:-)

Richard Zlamany · September 10th, 2006, 03:18 PM

I don't think any of those cams are a replacement to the z1.

I meant the z2 or z3 when and if.

August 8th, 2006, 01:47 PM	#1
Georg Herbet Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Burbank Posts: 81	PD150/170 users: when are you moving to HD? People see my PD170 now and say "is that HD?" I have to be apologetic when I tell them it's not. You, too? That tells me the end is near. When are you upgrading? __________________ I'm a photographer, too, and talk shop at PhotoCamel.

August 8th, 2006, 02:02 PM	#2
Martin Mayer Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 416	Six months ago. :D __________________ Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray

August 8th, 2006, 02:40 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I have both VX2000 and FX1. FX1 is a great education, and I am using it that way. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 26th, 2006, 07:47 AM	#11
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	I currently have VX2100 and it's certainly one awesome camera. I would say one of the best in its class with PD170. 4:3 is fine for me right now and I don't see HD taking over the standard in the next year or two. As long as there is no reasonable way to deliver the HD content, I am not getting a new camera. It would be great to have FX1 or Z1 just for widescreen SD shooting and I really like those cameras. However, I don't feel like I want to switch the VX for anything at the moment. __________________ Panasonic GH5 V-Log L + Metabones 0.64x + Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8; DMW-XLR1; Panasonic HC-X1 camcorder; DJI Ronin MX - CINEFILM Estonia http://www.cinefilm.ee

August 8th, 2006, 02:38 PM	#3
Ezra Hiller New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 23	I just bought my VX2100 a few months ago. I don't see myself switching to HD until at least Feb 2009 (The date the FCC has scheduled for the SDTV to HDTV switch). And then, we'll see what demand there is for HD. By the way, when I was shooting SVHS (Panasonic AG450), people would come over to me and assume it was a DV camera. Ezra

August 8th, 2006, 02:44 PM	#5
John Laird Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Waterloo, IA Posts: 32	I made the move from my 170 to a Z1U last month. I'm kinda late to the party, but that was by design :) I was just thinking last weekend after having shot a decent amount of footage with it, that my Z is the standard def cam I always wanted. The quality of the high def downconverted to 16:9 standard def in Vegas is what I always dreamed I would have. To be honest, if for whatever reason I never burned a HD-DVD or Blueray disc in my life, the quality of the standard def I get out of this camera was well worth every penny I spent on it. John

August 8th, 2006, 03:55 PM	#6
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I'll switch, after the 2nd or 3rd generation of sony HDV cameras are released and when some clients start asking for it.

August 8th, 2006, 05:13 PM	#7
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	ditto richards comments. until i see hd tv's in ordinary peoples houses (incl friends in the business), i don't think it's worth the investment, even for the great pics they produce in sd. heck, i hardly know anyone who's actually bought a 16:9 display for home. with petrol and the cost of living rocketing, i think it's only the reckless, or very rich who will spend big on displays at the moment. a great deal of what you read and hear at the moment is hype from manufacturers, and those in the trade who want a bigger one than yours.... that said, i'll repeat myself yet again - the pictures are great. leslie ps. most of the people who see my 170 and ask is it hd know the buzz words and little else. i always ask if they have a hd set - none have, and none have any idea where they'd obtain programs other than free to air or cable. and NONE have any means of playing back hd disks.....

August 8th, 2006, 09:14 PM	#9
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Those are good points Mike. But putting aside the HD vs SD debate, The Z1 really does offer a lot of nice upgrades from the PD-170 in terms of image adjustment and manual control. Last weekend I spent awhile with my Z1 connected to a monitor, digging deeper into what some of the controls do. Between WB shift, black stretch, cinegamma, color correction, skin tone detail, color phase and other things I'm probably forgetting, you can really do a lot of cool things on the Z1. And of course there's the issue of high quality anamorphic 16:9 DV which John mentions above. But the PD and VX series are great if you need to shoot in dark places and only need 4:3. Of course, if you are happy with your current camera then there isn't a lot of reason to switch. There will always be a newer model just around the corner which is cheaper/better/cooler. :-)

August 9th, 2006, 11:32 AM	#10
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	There's two parts to this really. HDV is a much greater expense than the camera itself. It's the potential added workflow time and a setup where you can accurately color correct HD. When my clients will pay more for HD then I'll get it. They're NOT going to get HD at SD prices. I won't give away my services. On the other hand, as some have pointed out, the HDV cameras are actually significantly improved SD cameras too. I have a hunch the low light noise issue will be improving in the next generation although I understand the obstacles. I don't like the motion artifacts with HDV, especially since I do slowmo shots. I just don't know how to sell that to a client as an improvement after they've spend thousands on an HDTV and eventually on a HDDVD/BluRay player too. Add to that, that many production people want shooters to do 24p in camera (vs the 1080i of the Z1). My fantasy is that Sony comes out with a 1/3" chip version of the F350 which uses 35mbps VBR encoding, 24 and 60p, records to a BluRay Disk (XDCAM) for $8,000 with lens to one up Panasonic's HVX-200 (and it's P2 record time, archival dilemma). I don't want to have to buy a new camera every year so until I see a longer term viable camera and format, I'll hold my breath.

September 10th, 2006, 08:16 AM	#12
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	My feeling is, that if someone sees such a "standard" camera as the PD150/170 and asks whether its HD, it's most likely a case of them simply following buzzwords they don't really know much about, rather than showing a true understanding of the differences between SD and HD anyway. If you said "yes" and showed them the output, would they believe you? Probably.

September 10th, 2006, 12:30 PM	#13
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	James, I have thought the same thing.

September 10th, 2006, 03:18 PM	#15
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I don't think any of those cams are a replacement to the z1. I meant the z2 or z3 when and if.