Manual Exposure/Shutter Speed at DVinfo.net

Aviv Hallale · May 11th, 2006, 05:11 PM

I've found that I can't adjust the shutter speed when I'm using manual exposure, however I can switch exposure to auto, manually adjust my shutter speed and then manually adjust my exposure. Is there any reason why I can't adjust my shutter speed and exposure manually at the same time?

Don Bloom · May 11th, 2006, 08:20 PM

If you are referring to the PD170 you can control shutter, iris and gain manually. It sounds like in your menu you need to switch the Auto Shutter to OFF. I control my shutter with the scroll wheel after oushing the Shutter Speed button on the back, and the iris by the scroll whell on the side of the camera which you already know BUT if the AUTO SHUTTER is ON in the menu it won't work.

Don

Marcus Marchesseault · May 11th, 2006, 08:25 PM

You can't do that because Sony designed those features poorly. I can think of no other reason except for a design overlook/flaw. Fortunately, you shouldn't need to adjust the shutter often.

Chris Barcellos · May 11th, 2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

You can't do that because Sony designed those features poorly. I can think of no other reason except for a design overlook/flaw. Fortunately, you shouldn't need to adjust the shutter often.

What ? On VX2000 you slide Auto lock to middle position. Then select shutter on back panel, select shutter speed you want. The adjust your Iris exposure by pushing that button and turning wheel on front. I think you do have to be sure Auto shutter is turned off.

Aviv Hallale · May 12th, 2006, 12:30 AM

Sorry, referring to the VX2100...But then I have to take off manual exposure in order to adjust the shutter.

Boyd Ostroff · May 12th, 2006, 08:28 AM

Aviv has correctly described the shutter speed adjustment on the VX series. Whenever you change shutter speed the camera will automatically reset the iris to whatever it "thinks" it should be - even in full manual mode. But after changing shutter speed you can then go back to manual iris mode and control it as desired. The PD-150/170 are different however and let you change shutter speed without affecting the iris.

But unlike Marcus, I suspect this was something Sony did intentionally to differentiate the VX and PD series. They have done similar things to "cripple" their consumer cameras in firmware as compared to the pro models (FX1 vs Z1, TRV-950 vs PDX-10).

FWIW, my PDX-10 has the same annoying shutter speed behavior as the VX-2000.

Andre De Clercq · May 14th, 2006, 04:03 PM

And this doesn't relate to AUTO SHUTTER setting in the menu.

Aviv Hallale · May 14th, 2006, 05:13 PM

So if I wan't to adjust shutter speed on the VX2100 I have to:

1) Take off Manual Exposure
2) Select and Adjust Shutter
3) Turn on Manual Exposure and set it to what I want, seeing as the camera will automatically select which exposure it thinks I'll want?

What is this difference between this and the Program AE Shutter Speed Priority setting? (What do these actually do? That and the Aperuture priority settings? They both don't really seem to make a different).

Also, what does that automatic shutter option do?

Dale Paterson · May 15th, 2006, 01:55 AM

The difference is that the AE modes allow YOU to control one thing and the camera adjusts the other.

Example:

AE - Aperture Priority - you select the desired aperture - the camera will select the shutter speed

AE - Shutter Speed Priority - you select the shutter speed - the camera will select the aperture

When using manual exposure and setting the shutter speed manually YOU are controlling both and the camera is not making any automatic adjustments at all (and, as Andre De Clercq says, AUTO SHUTTER in the menu has no bearing on any of these adjustments. The setting of AUTO SHUTTER is ONLY used when the AUTO LOCK position is selected).

And a word of warning:

It is very easy to overexpose when using manual exposure and setting the shutter speed manually. On the VX - when this happens - the CCD's (or something) get themselves into a twist and do not seem to recover until you push the reset button. You will know if you have overexposed because the whole image becomes blurred and out of focus and no matter what you do from there - unless you reset - the camera stays in this state. Admittedly I am talking about EXTREME overexposure but it only takes a split second for this to happen and then you have to reset. It is pretty easy to do though - if you set your shutter speed manually (slow) and select manual exposure (wide aperture) with the lens hood closed and go outside and open the lens hood facing a bright object - you'll quickly see what I mean!

Aviv Hallale · May 15th, 2006, 05:36 AM

When you say reset, do you mean hitting the exposure button? I've found thaet I don't get overexposure when using the manual shutter because I have to swtich the exposure to auto (by hitting the exposure button) anyway.

Chris Barcellos · May 15th, 2006, 10:11 AM

This isn't real difficult. You set the camera to manual (on VX2000 that is slider on back of camera, the middle selection under auto lock.) Then you make sure the exposure button is off (by the iris/gain adjustment wheel. Then you select your shutter speed by pressing shutter speed (on back of VX2000, I'm sure the same on 2100), and then rotating selector wheel to get the speed you want. In most situation I select 60 (1/60th). Then you press the exposure button, and you just adjust your exposure from there using the exposure wheel next to the exposure button. Have your zebra pattern on to be sure you aren't burning out highlights, unless you really want to, and you are off and running.

Now if you press the exposure button again, then it resets to exposure it thinks you may want, so just don't repress the exposure button.

Dale Paterson · May 16th, 2006, 01:32 AM

You'll find the 'reset button' where all the other buttons are (beneath the LCD i.e. when the LCD is open) although it is more of a little round hole with a 'button' beneath it. You need a pen or other (not too sharp) thin object to depress it and this resets the camera to its factory default settings. I always do this before a shoot just to make sure everything is in order.

The reason that I made you aware of possible overexposure is because YOU were asking about manully controlling the shutter speed AND aperture in your thread (unless I read it wrong).

If you are only controlling the shutter speed then the camera will compensate by adjusting the aperture

Regards,

Dale.

Tom Hardwick · May 16th, 2006, 10:33 AM

If you push the reset button though, the camera defaults to the lower-fi setting of 12 bit audio. And you lose any custom presets you might've stored. I stay well clear.

tom.

Aviv Hallale · May 16th, 2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

This isn't real difficult. You set the camera to manual (on VX2000 that is slider on back of camera, the middle selection under auto lock.) Then you make sure the exposure button is off (by the iris/gain adjustment wheel. Then you select your shutter speed by pressing shutter speed (on back of VX2000, I'm sure the same on 2100), and then rotating selector wheel to get the speed you want. In most situation I select 60 (1/60th). Then you press the exposure button, and you just adjust your exposure from there using the exposure wheel next to the exposure button. Have your zebra pattern on to be sure you aren't burning out highlights, unless you really want to, and you are off and running.

Now if you press the exposure button again, then it resets to exposure it thinks you may want, so just don't repress the exposure button.

Is there no way of adjusting the shutter without having to first turn off the exposure button?

Tom Hardwick · May 16th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Not on the VX2000 or VX2100 Aviv. The camera is a shutter priority automatic with manual control, which is by far the best way to operate a movie camera.

Just follow Chris Barcellos' advice to the letter and you'll be working the camera at its best in the way it was designed.

tom.

May 11th, 2006, 05:11 PM	#1
Aviv Hallale Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 276	Manual Exposure/Shutter Speed I've found that I can't adjust the shutter speed when I'm using manual exposure, however I can switch exposure to auto, manually adjust my shutter speed and then manually adjust my exposure. Is there any reason why I can't adjust my shutter speed and exposure manually at the same time?

May 15th, 2006, 10:11 AM	#11
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	This isn't real difficult. You set the camera to manual (on VX2000 that is slider on back of camera, the middle selection under auto lock.) Then you make sure the exposure button is off (by the iris/gain adjustment wheel. Then you select your shutter speed by pressing shutter speed (on back of VX2000, I'm sure the same on 2100), and then rotating selector wheel to get the speed you want. In most situation I select 60 (1/60th). Then you press the exposure button, and you just adjust your exposure from there using the exposure wheel next to the exposure button. Have your zebra pattern on to be sure you aren't burning out highlights, unless you really want to, and you are off and running. Now if you press the exposure button again, then it resets to exposure it thinks you may want, so just don't repress the exposure button. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 11th, 2006, 08:20 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	If you are referring to the PD170 you can control shutter, iris and gain manually. It sounds like in your menu you need to switch the Auto Shutter to OFF. I control my shutter with the scroll wheel after oushing the Shutter Speed button on the back, and the iris by the scroll whell on the side of the camera which you already know BUT if the AUTO SHUTTER is ON in the menu it won't work. Don

May 11th, 2006, 08:25 PM	#3
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	You can't do that because Sony designed those features poorly. I can think of no other reason except for a design overlook/flaw. Fortunately, you shouldn't need to adjust the shutter often.

May 12th, 2006, 12:30 AM	#5
Aviv Hallale Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 276	Sorry, referring to the VX2100...But then I have to take off manual exposure in order to adjust the shutter.

May 12th, 2006, 08:28 AM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Aviv has correctly described the shutter speed adjustment on the VX series. Whenever you change shutter speed the camera will automatically reset the iris to whatever it "thinks" it should be - even in full manual mode. But after changing shutter speed you can then go back to manual iris mode and control it as desired. The PD-150/170 are different however and let you change shutter speed without affecting the iris. But unlike Marcus, I suspect this was something Sony did intentionally to differentiate the VX and PD series. They have done similar things to "cripple" their consumer cameras in firmware as compared to the pro models (FX1 vs Z1, TRV-950 vs PDX-10). FWIW, my PDX-10 has the same annoying shutter speed behavior as the VX-2000.

May 14th, 2006, 04:03 PM	#7
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	And this doesn't relate to AUTO SHUTTER setting in the menu.

May 14th, 2006, 05:13 PM	#8
Aviv Hallale Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 276	So if I wan't to adjust shutter speed on the VX2100 I have to: 1) Take off Manual Exposure 2) Select and Adjust Shutter 3) Turn on Manual Exposure and set it to what I want, seeing as the camera will automatically select which exposure it thinks I'll want? What is this difference between this and the Program AE Shutter Speed Priority setting? (What do these actually do? That and the Aperuture priority settings? They both don't really seem to make a different). Also, what does that automatic shutter option do?

May 15th, 2006, 01:55 AM	#9
Dale Paterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 200	The difference is that the AE modes allow YOU to control one thing and the camera adjusts the other. Example: AE - Aperture Priority - you select the desired aperture - the camera will select the shutter speed AE - Shutter Speed Priority - you select the shutter speed - the camera will select the aperture When using manual exposure and setting the shutter speed manually YOU are controlling both and the camera is not making any automatic adjustments at all (and, as Andre De Clercq says, AUTO SHUTTER in the menu has no bearing on any of these adjustments. The setting of AUTO SHUTTER is ONLY used when the AUTO LOCK position is selected). And a word of warning: It is very easy to overexpose when using manual exposure and setting the shutter speed manually. On the VX - when this happens - the CCD's (or something) get themselves into a twist and do not seem to recover until you push the reset button. You will know if you have overexposed because the whole image becomes blurred and out of focus and no matter what you do from there - unless you reset - the camera stays in this state. Admittedly I am talking about EXTREME overexposure but it only takes a split second for this to happen and then you have to reset. It is pretty easy to do though - if you set your shutter speed manually (slow) and select manual exposure (wide aperture) with the lens hood closed and go outside and open the lens hood facing a bright object - you'll quickly see what I mean!

May 15th, 2006, 05:36 AM	#10
Aviv Hallale Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 276	When you say reset, do you mean hitting the exposure button? I've found thaet I don't get overexposure when using the manual shutter because I have to swtich the exposure to auto (by hitting the exposure button) anyway.

May 16th, 2006, 01:32 AM	#12
Dale Paterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 200	You'll find the 'reset button' where all the other buttons are (beneath the LCD i.e. when the LCD is open) although it is more of a little round hole with a 'button' beneath it. You need a pen or other (not too sharp) thin object to depress it and this resets the camera to its factory default settings. I always do this before a shoot just to make sure everything is in order. The reason that I made you aware of possible overexposure is because YOU were asking about manully controlling the shutter speed AND aperture in your thread (unless I read it wrong). If you are only controlling the shutter speed then the camera will compensate by adjusting the aperture Regards, Dale.

May 16th, 2006, 10:33 AM	#13
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	If you push the reset button though, the camera defaults to the lower-fi setting of 12 bit audio. And you lose any custom presets you might've stored. I stay well clear. tom.

May 16th, 2006, 12:10 PM	#15
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Not on the VX2000 or VX2100 Aviv. The camera is a shutter priority automatic with manual control, which is by far the best way to operate a movie camera. Just follow Chris Barcellos' advice to the letter and you'll be working the camera at its best in the way it was designed. tom.