VX2000 -- various topics

Dennis Hull · November 25th, 2002, 09:16 AM

Traveling two days this week, but wanted to note that I did finally think to look at data code readouts ; just a quick summary is that in low light and dark light the GL2 lense was at max (1.? forgot to write down) and gain boosted between 12 and 18 db in many cases; VX2000 maximum iris was 2.6 with no gain under same lighting. However, given low quality of TV and my untrained eye at first glance the 12 and 18 db boost of GL2 was not an obvious problem to the casual observer. Again, this happened in full auto mode for both cameras. One other "adjustment" made was ND filters were switched in as prompted by camcorders in outside shooting.

David Hurdon · November 25th, 2002, 09:35 AM

Adrian

Thanks for the correction. I got the misinformation from a feature check table in the UK's Camcorder and DV Movie Maker Mag, Sept. 2002 edition, unless the European version is actually different. Another recent buyers guide (North American) indicates that they do both use the 1/3 inch CCDs but Canon at 270,000 pixels per CCD versus Sony at 380,000. You referred to this in general terms in your post. Do you know what the effect is, or is intended to be, of more versus larger?

David Hurdon

Mike Rehmus · November 25th, 2002, 11:51 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dennis Hull : Traveling two days this week, but wanted to note that I did finally think to look at data code readouts ; just a quick summary is that in low light and dark light the GL2 lense was at max (1.? forgot to write down) and gain boosted between 12 and 18 db in many cases; VX2000 maximum iris was 2.6 with no gain under same lighting.

-------------------

Then you were far from stressing the VX-2000 in what was, in effect, for it, bright light. The VX-2000 lens opens to f1.6 and it has 18 dB of gain to play with. That is a massive low light advantage with regard to picture quality in scenes that are darker than what you shot in. The darker the scene, the more obvious the differences are. Not only because of the sensitivity but because of the very low image noise levels. Much better, for example, than with my DSR-300.

It is unfortunate that you were not allowed to optimize the performance of each camera through manual settings. As it is, you really don't know how good the cameras really are at their limits.

It is also likely that by not resetting the white balance on the camcorders whenever you changed light levels, you probably contributed to the color cast in the lighter colors.

Congratulations for taking the time and expending the effort to test these two cameras.

BTW, it is hopeless to consider and compare CCD size and pixel count without knowing how much area of each CCD is used for 'real' video imaging. There really is no clear indication that the 1/3" CCDs are physically 1/3" or that their active area is 1/3". Without a value for individual pixel area and understanding the camera's DSP (image processing) technology, one can only test sensitivity to compare

----------------

However, given low quality of TV and my untrained eye at first glance the 12 and 18 db boost of GL2 was not an obvious problem to the casual observer. Again, this happened in full auto mode for both cameras. One other "adjustment" made was ND filters were switched in as prompted by camcorders in outside shooting. -->>>

Mike Black · November 26th, 2002, 09:29 PM

Please have a look at these pictures taken in Alaska.
I was surprised at how good they printed for a video camera.
I have seen pictures taken with the GL2, but frankly I prefer these. What do you think?
The only reason I would like to have a GL2 is for the 20X zoom.
Thanks,
Michael

Jeff Donald · November 26th, 2002, 10:48 PM

I don't mean to be rude, but what pictures am I looking at?

Jeff

Mike Black · November 27th, 2002, 07:13 AM

Sorry, I forgot to put the link.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=255941
Mike

David Mintzer · December 2nd, 2002, 04:06 PM

Very nice pictures---did you do any manipulation in Photo Shop or some other image software???

Bryan Beasleigh · December 2nd, 2002, 08:26 PM

Very nice pictures. Time for me to buy a memory stick and take that trip to Alaska. ( I 've never used the still feature of the camera)

Jeff Donald · December 2nd, 2002, 09:16 PM

Nice work Mike. Those are images to be proud of.

Jeff

Mike Black · December 3rd, 2002, 07:53 PM

Hi David,
The only thing I did was put some of them through auto retouch in film factory, (mostly for the exposure) but most of them are about the same straight out of the camera. I find it usually does a good enough job for slide shows.
Mike

Dennis Hull · December 4th, 2002, 05:32 PM

Amazingly (given time it has taken me) will actually buy VX2000 but limited return privileges. Besides going step by step through manual and checking each function (including I guess looking at troubleshooting section to see what could go wrong), any suggestions on particular things to look for that could be wrong with camera but not immediately obvious to the novice (me)?? Just as an example only, I have seen posts on "hot pixels" or whatever and I wouldn't know what a hot pixel was if it burned me or what to look for to see if my particular camera had a problem. Maybe there is a published "checklist" somewhere?? Thanks for help.

Mike Rehmus · December 4th, 2002, 07:29 PM

I think the best way to test the camera and learn the functions is to go through each paragraph in the manual and operate the camera as I read. That way I check out the functions and learn to operate the camera.

Then I go out and shoot with the camera. At least several hours worth of use.

Hot pixels are really apparent. They are the white dot that appears in the viewfinder and the image that don't move when you move the field of view. These usually show up at higher gains so you can place the camera in a dark room and run the gain up to check.

If you live near a populated area, you might try and find another VX-2000 user, get together and compare camera performance. Usually, camera failures are rather spectacular. My PD-150 developed a fault within 2 weeks of its purchase. The steadyshot would sort of slam into its stops and you could hear, feel and see it. Sony promptly repaired it as the company from which I purchased it only covers the first 7 days (B&H Photo Video).

The worst thing you can do is unwrap it and set it on the shelf. Use it a lot for a while. That way, if anything does go wrong, it will likely do so in the first 90 days when Sony warrants both parts and labor.

Bryan Beasleigh · December 4th, 2002, 10:23 PM

Set the camera on a tripod and jack it into a TV. Run through each function and feature. It's a good way to learn what the camera will do.

Marius Svendsen · December 5th, 2002, 09:45 AM

I have a VX2000E which i film with, I use the Custom Preset settng to adjust the color, sharpness, gain and so on...

I know I can adjust the color levels in Premiere/After Effects, but what do yuo guys have adjustet on your VX2000?
You use the CP setting?
I would love to know or get a few tips on the setting which give the most realistic look, maybe even a bit of a film look?:)

Thanks

Marius Svendsen · December 5th, 2002, 09:47 AM

I have a VX2000E which i film with, I use the Custom Preset settng to adjust the color, sharpness, gain and so on...

I know I can adjust the color levels in Premiere/After Effects, but what do you guys have adjustet on your VX2000?
You use the CP setting?
I would love to know or get a few tips on the setting which give the most realistic look, maybe even a bit of a film look?:)

Thanks

November 25th, 2002, 09:16 AM	#241
Dennis Hull Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN USA Posts: 151	More Novice Info VX2000 and GL2 Traveling two days this week, but wanted to note that I did finally think to look at data code readouts ; just a quick summary is that in low light and dark light the GL2 lense was at max (1.? forgot to write down) and gain boosted between 12 and 18 db in many cases; VX2000 maximum iris was 2.6 with no gain under same lighting. However, given low quality of TV and my untrained eye at first glance the 12 and 18 db boost of GL2 was not an obvious problem to the casual observer. Again, this happened in full auto mode for both cameras. One other "adjustment" made was ND filters were switched in as prompted by camcorders in outside shooting.

November 25th, 2002, 09:35 AM	#242
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	Novice Compares VX2000 and GL2 Adrian Thanks for the correction. I got the misinformation from a feature check table in the UK's Camcorder and DV Movie Maker Mag, Sept. 2002 edition, unless the European version is actually different. Another recent buyers guide (North American) indicates that they do both use the 1/3 inch CCDs but Canon at 270,000 pixels per CCD versus Sony at 380,000. You referred to this in general terms in your post. Do you know what the effect is, or is intended to be, of more versus larger? David Hurdon

November 25th, 2002, 11:51 AM	#243
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Re: More Novice Info VX2000 and GL2 <<<-- Originally posted by Dennis Hull : Traveling two days this week, but wanted to note that I did finally think to look at data code readouts ; just a quick summary is that in low light and dark light the GL2 lense was at max (1.? forgot to write down) and gain boosted between 12 and 18 db in many cases; VX2000 maximum iris was 2.6 with no gain under same lighting. ------------------- Then you were far from stressing the VX-2000 in what was, in effect, for it, bright light. The VX-2000 lens opens to f1.6 and it has 18 dB of gain to play with. That is a massive low light advantage with regard to picture quality in scenes that are darker than what you shot in. The darker the scene, the more obvious the differences are. Not only because of the sensitivity but because of the very low image noise levels. Much better, for example, than with my DSR-300. It is unfortunate that you were not allowed to optimize the performance of each camera through manual settings. As it is, you really don't know how good the cameras really are at their limits. It is also likely that by not resetting the white balance on the camcorders whenever you changed light levels, you probably contributed to the color cast in the lighter colors. Congratulations for taking the time and expending the effort to test these two cameras. BTW, it is hopeless to consider and compare CCD size and pixel count without knowing how much area of each CCD is used for 'real' video imaging. There really is no clear indication that the 1/3" CCDs are physically 1/3" or that their active area is 1/3". Without a value for individual pixel area and understanding the camera's DSP (image processing) technology, one can only test sensitivity to compare ---------------- However, given low quality of TV and my untrained eye at first glance the 12 and 18 db boost of GL2 was not an obvious problem to the casual observer. Again, this happened in full auto mode for both cameras. One other "adjustment" made was ND filters were switched in as prompted by camcorders in outside shooting. -->>> __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 26th, 2002, 09:29 PM	#244
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Pictures with VX2000 Please have a look at these pictures taken in Alaska. I was surprised at how good they printed for a video camera. I have seen pictures taken with the GL2, but frankly I prefer these. What do you think? The only reason I would like to have a GL2 is for the 20X zoom. Thanks, Michael

November 27th, 2002, 07:13 AM	#246
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Pictures of Alaska Sorry, I forgot to put the link. http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=255941 Mike

November 26th, 2002, 10:48 PM	#245
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I don't mean to be rude, but what pictures am I looking at? Jeff

December 2nd, 2002, 04:06 PM	#247
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Very nice pictures---did you do any manipulation in Photo Shop or some other image software???

December 2nd, 2002, 08:26 PM	#248
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Very nice pictures. Time for me to buy a memory stick and take that trip to Alaska. ( I 've never used the still feature of the camera)

December 2nd, 2002, 09:16 PM	#249
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Nice work Mike. Those are images to be proud of. Jeff

December 3rd, 2002, 07:53 PM	#250
Mike Black Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Perez Zeledon, Costa Rica Posts: 37	Re PhotoShop Hi David, The only thing I did was put some of them through auto retouch in film factory, (mostly for the exposure) but most of them are about the same straight out of the camera. I find it usually does a good enough job for slide shows. Mike

December 4th, 2002, 05:32 PM	#251
Dennis Hull Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN USA Posts: 151	Quality Checks for VX2000 Amazingly (given time it has taken me) will actually buy VX2000 but limited return privileges. Besides going step by step through manual and checking each function (including I guess looking at troubleshooting section to see what could go wrong), any suggestions on particular things to look for that could be wrong with camera but not immediately obvious to the novice (me)?? Just as an example only, I have seen posts on "hot pixels" or whatever and I wouldn't know what a hot pixel was if it burned me or what to look for to see if my particular camera had a problem. Maybe there is a published "checklist" somewhere?? Thanks for help.

December 4th, 2002, 07:29 PM	#252
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I think the best way to test the camera and learn the functions is to go through each paragraph in the manual and operate the camera as I read. That way I check out the functions and learn to operate the camera. Then I go out and shoot with the camera. At least several hours worth of use. Hot pixels are really apparent. They are the white dot that appears in the viewfinder and the image that don't move when you move the field of view. These usually show up at higher gains so you can place the camera in a dark room and run the gain up to check. If you live near a populated area, you might try and find another VX-2000 user, get together and compare camera performance. Usually, camera failures are rather spectacular. My PD-150 developed a fault within 2 weeks of its purchase. The steadyshot would sort of slam into its stops and you could hear, feel and see it. Sony promptly repaired it as the company from which I purchased it only covers the first 7 days (B&H Photo Video). The worst thing you can do is unwrap it and set it on the shelf. Use it a lot for a while. That way, if anything does go wrong, it will likely do so in the first 90 days when Sony warrants both parts and labor. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 4th, 2002, 10:23 PM	#253
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Set the camera on a tripod and jack it into a TV. Run through each function and feature. It's a good way to learn what the camera will do.

December 5th, 2002, 09:45 AM	#254
Marius Svendsen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 79	The ultimate color setting on the VX2000E?? I have a VX2000E which i film with, I use the Custom Preset settng to adjust the color, sharpness, gain and so on... I know I can adjust the color levels in Premiere/After Effects, but what do yuo guys have adjustet on your VX2000? You use the CP setting? I would love to know or get a few tips on the setting which give the most realistic look, maybe even a bit of a film look?:) Thanks __________________ Marius Svendsen Interlaced Media svendsen_ms@hotmail.com

December 5th, 2002, 09:47 AM	#255
Marius Svendsen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 79	Best CP setting for the VX2000/E?? I have a VX2000E which i film with, I use the Custom Preset settng to adjust the color, sharpness, gain and so on... I know I can adjust the color levels in Premiere/After Effects, but what do you guys have adjustet on your VX2000? You use the CP setting? I would love to know or get a few tips on the setting which give the most realistic look, maybe even a bit of a film look?:) Thanks __________________ Marius Svendsen Interlaced Media svendsen_ms@hotmail.com