VX2100, XLR-adaptors and other questions at DVinfo.net

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 05:17 AM

Hi,

I'm a journaliststudent here in Denmark. After christmas I've got six months till my 1½ year internship. I'm going for one of the big TV-broadcaststations - and that isn't easy!

So I'm gonna start doing some freelance TV in my spare time. Mostly for practice, but it would be nice to sell a few aswell.

Aaanyway... I'm gonna buy a VX2100 - after ALOT of research this is come to be the optimal solution for me. Well a PD170 would be nice, but it's just to darn expensive.

I have acces to alot of XLR equipment, so I'm gonna want a proper XLR-adaptor. After some reading it seems like Beachtek is the way to go? But i read that if connect that, then I won't be able to use the build in mic? That's a huge problem for me. In interview situations I will be using a mic for interviewing and I want the realsound aswell. How do I do that?

Maybe it's just better to buy a proper mic for minijack? I have acces to a microport with minijack I/O, so that'd probably do? Although... won't I miss out on the manual audio controls? And will I still be able to have two seperate auditracks?

Other than that, I'm going to need a tripod and a good light for nightshots. What should I go for?

That was alot of questions. Hope you'll be able to answer them! ;)

Boyd Ostroff · November 15th, 2005, 05:43 AM

Unfortunately, I believe the built-in mike will be disabled as soon as you plug anything into the mini-jack - with or without a Beachtek. So the best solution may be to get a mono microphone to put on the accessory shoe and plug it into one channel of the Beachtek. Or maybe you should look for a used PD-150 instead of the VX-2100?

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 06:57 AM

That might be a possibility. I haven't read much into PD150/170, so the only thing I know is that they have XLR and better manual control? Is the PD150 the pro version og VX2000 and PD170 the pro version of VX2100?

What about the picturequality? And especially the LUX. How does a PD150 perform against af VX2100? And doesn't it use DV-tapes instead of miniDV?

Georg Liigand · November 15th, 2005, 08:47 AM

You are absolutely right - PDs are the more pro brothers of VXs. What they basically have more are sound features (XLR, shotgun mic, more audio control via menus) and they also have a few more settings in the menus (nothing major). If talking about picture then PD150 is basically identical to VX2000 and PD170 to VX2100. VX2000-PD150 lux rating is 2 while VX2100-PD170 is 1 so on papers the newer models should perform slightly better. However, I've heard that it's not noticeable in the picture. Additionally, the newer ones should have less grain/noise in low light.

I also considered between VX2100 and PD150, but already 2100 is not very new and VX2000,PD150 were released in 2000 as far as I know. So, they are quite old and have certainly got quite much use by the owners. There are ofocurse good and less used ones also available so you might want to look at them. I believe that picture quality in good light is quite similar.

Both cams use MiniDV tapes, PDs simply record in DVCAM format which means that the tape is moving faster and they say it eliminates possible errors in the footage. 60 min tape will be 40 min in DVCAM mode.

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 10:56 AM

Okay. I don't know really. I deffinately rather have a new one than an used one. But it sounds like the vx2100 is very limited when it comes to sound.

So to me it sounds like the best solution (with the vx2100) is to get the beachtek adaptor. Put the mic for interviewing in channel 1 and a shotgun microfone in the shoe. But then I won't have the possibility of having a photolight connected. Am I right? Is this really the only possibility?

From new the PD170 is 34.000DKK ($5345) and the VX2100 is 19.000DKK ($2987). That's a BIG pricedifference. More than that, only being able to record 40 minutes per tape is gonna annoy me for sure. I don't need that extra professional features - just the XLR I/O and the ability of using two seperate audiochannels.

Any words of wisdom?

Gareth Watkins · November 15th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Hi Thomas

I've an FX1 but this camera essentially has the same constraints as the 2100. ie. no XLR audio inputs...

I've bolted a Sign Video adapter box (very similar to the Beachtek) to the camera and it works just fine. You get 2 separate XLR jack channels, plus two mini jack inputs...(only two channels but in theory upto 4 mics). If you get a good shotgun mic, I use the Audio Technica 897, you can easily use it in conjuction with a cheap hard wired lav mic. In an interview situation these mics work fine.... as long as the person is not moving too much the sound is excellent mine is an AT35.

Otherwise I've a Senheisser G2 wireless Lav mic set up which is not hugely expensive and gives you the freedom to follow talent around.

I often use the AT897 on a boom and the G2 on the talent... in this set up the fact that you have no onboard mic is irrelevant...

Re: the DVcam part... to my mind even though my camera doesn't have it ... I doubt I would use it... extra minutes per tape is far more use to me than the slight possibility I may get a drop out.. which incidentally I've only ever had very few..(I only shoot SD for the time being)

I saw a tutorial on the DV.com forum where the speaker (a pro video chappy) uses the LP on his cameras and has had very few problems.. giving him 90mins of tape run time, I believe..

I use Sony Premium tapes and they are fine to my mind.

Regards

Gareth

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 12:11 PM

Okay... but you know, being that i'm going to be one man handling it all, a boom is not a very good solution.

I think these to scenarios are going to be my most common:

Camera on tripod. Me with a mic doing an interview. Then what do I do about the real sound?

or...

Camera on shoulder. Wireless mic on talent. Then what do I do about the real sound?

I COULD put a mono mic in the shoe, but then I won't be able to use any photolight.

EDIT: So it's possible to record in DV instead of DVCam on the PD150/170?

Gareth Watkins · November 15th, 2005, 12:13 PM

Hi Thomas

Been looking around the web
You can get a Beachtek + AT35 + AT897 for 550 euros
a Senheisser G2 wireless lav set will cot you about 570 euros...

a lot less than the prices you quote for the 2 cameras..

Hope this helps

Gareth

Gareth Watkins · November 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM

With the set up I'm talking about the shotgun can be camera mounted very easily...

Then a wireless lav leaves you free...

I do 90% of my work alone.. so I know what you mean...

by the way your lav mic will pick up background too as its an omni mic..

and yes PD's150/170 will do DV too...

cheers

Gareth

Gareth Watkins · November 15th, 2005, 12:19 PM

check out the double shoe bracket..here
http://www.b-hague.co.uk/video_accessories.htm
allows you to use light and mic togther..

cheers
G

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 01:16 PM

I have acces to pro XLR audio equipment through my school. So what I'm gonna need is:

Camera
Beachtek XLR adaptor
Double shoe bracket (for using when I wan to use photolight)
Monomic for the shoe

That would get me the same functionality as a PD150/170 right? I get realsound from the monomic in the shoe (connected to the beachtek), I have XLR I/O and I can record two seperate channels.

Boyd Ostroff · November 15th, 2005, 01:25 PM

Sounds like a plan. You only need to decide whether you want the Beachtek model with or without phantom power. At $370 $USD the DXA-8 begins to close the gap between the PD-170 and VX-2100 price enough to make me think twice. The DXA-4 is $170.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont....x=5&image.y=8

Also consider that the PD-170 includes a mono mike and also includes the Sony Wide Angle Lens. Of course the price structure in your country might tip the scales the other way....

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 01:58 PM

I definately want the one with phantom power - can't use the audio equipment in my school without. But yea with the monomic, the XLR adaptor, the double bracket shoe and that this is gonna be more trouble I'm starting to reconsider the PD150.

Someone suggested me Canon XM2 though. Said it had XLR, but it looks like it's an accesory? And I read that the camera's build in mic records the sound from the machinery. If that's so - I deffinately DON'T want to get it. I know there's a canon forum, but my mind is still on a Sony so I'm keeping it in here.

Mike Rehmus · November 15th, 2005, 02:52 PM

Once you get close to the 170 in price, it is a much better choice in terms of convenience, control and support. Don't forget support. The 2100 gets the consumer support, the 170 gets pro support and that is a big difference if you ever have problems with your camera.

Thomas Hartz-Olsson · November 15th, 2005, 03:24 PM

well IF I'm gonna buy the PD150/170 it's going to be a used one. I guess Sony's support is only within the 2-year warranty?

November 15th, 2005, 05:17 AM	#1
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	VX2100, XLR-adaptors and other questions Hi, I'm a journaliststudent here in Denmark. After christmas I've got six months till my 1½ year internship. I'm going for one of the big TV-broadcaststations - and that isn't easy! So I'm gonna start doing some freelance TV in my spare time. Mostly for practice, but it would be nice to sell a few aswell. Aaanyway... I'm gonna buy a VX2100 - after ALOT of research this is come to be the optimal solution for me. Well a PD170 would be nice, but it's just to darn expensive. I have acces to alot of XLR equipment, so I'm gonna want a proper XLR-adaptor. After some reading it seems like Beachtek is the way to go? But i read that if connect that, then I won't be able to use the build in mic? That's a huge problem for me. In interview situations I will be using a mic for interviewing and I want the realsound aswell. How do I do that? Maybe it's just better to buy a proper mic for minijack? I have acces to a microport with minijack I/O, so that'd probably do? Although... won't I miss out on the manual audio controls? And will I still be able to have two seperate auditracks? Other than that, I'm going to need a tripod and a good light for nightshots. What should I go for? That was alot of questions. Hope you'll be able to answer them! ;)

November 15th, 2005, 02:52 PM	#14
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Once you get close to the 170 in price, it is a much better choice in terms of convenience, control and support. Don't forget support. The 2100 gets the consumer support, the 170 gets pro support and that is a big difference if you ever have problems with your camera. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 15th, 2005, 05:43 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Unfortunately, I believe the built-in mike will be disabled as soon as you plug anything into the mini-jack - with or without a Beachtek. So the best solution may be to get a mono microphone to put on the accessory shoe and plug it into one channel of the Beachtek. Or maybe you should look for a used PD-150 instead of the VX-2100?

November 15th, 2005, 06:57 AM	#3
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	That might be a possibility. I haven't read much into PD150/170, so the only thing I know is that they have XLR and better manual control? Is the PD150 the pro version og VX2000 and PD170 the pro version of VX2100? What about the picturequality? And especially the LUX. How does a PD150 perform against af VX2100? And doesn't it use DV-tapes instead of miniDV?

November 15th, 2005, 08:47 AM	#4
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	You are absolutely right - PDs are the more pro brothers of VXs. What they basically have more are sound features (XLR, shotgun mic, more audio control via menus) and they also have a few more settings in the menus (nothing major). If talking about picture then PD150 is basically identical to VX2000 and PD170 to VX2100. VX2000-PD150 lux rating is 2 while VX2100-PD170 is 1 so on papers the newer models should perform slightly better. However, I've heard that it's not noticeable in the picture. Additionally, the newer ones should have less grain/noise in low light. I also considered between VX2100 and PD150, but already 2100 is not very new and VX2000,PD150 were released in 2000 as far as I know. So, they are quite old and have certainly got quite much use by the owners. There are ofocurse good and less used ones also available so you might want to look at them. I believe that picture quality in good light is quite similar. Both cams use MiniDV tapes, PDs simply record in DVCAM format which means that the tape is moving faster and they say it eliminates possible errors in the footage. 60 min tape will be 40 min in DVCAM mode.

November 15th, 2005, 10:56 AM	#5
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	Okay. I don't know really. I deffinately rather have a new one than an used one. But it sounds like the vx2100 is very limited when it comes to sound. So to me it sounds like the best solution (with the vx2100) is to get the beachtek adaptor. Put the mic for interviewing in channel 1 and a shotgun microfone in the shoe. But then I won't have the possibility of having a photolight connected. Am I right? Is this really the only possibility? From new the PD170 is 34.000DKK ($5345) and the VX2100 is 19.000DKK ($2987). That's a BIG pricedifference. More than that, only being able to record 40 minutes per tape is gonna annoy me for sure. I don't need that extra professional features - just the XLR I/O and the ability of using two seperate audiochannels. Any words of wisdom?

November 15th, 2005, 11:55 AM	#6
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi Thomas I've an FX1 but this camera essentially has the same constraints as the 2100. ie. no XLR audio inputs... I've bolted a Sign Video adapter box (very similar to the Beachtek) to the camera and it works just fine. You get 2 separate XLR jack channels, plus two mini jack inputs...(only two channels but in theory upto 4 mics). If you get a good shotgun mic, I use the Audio Technica 897, you can easily use it in conjuction with a cheap hard wired lav mic. In an interview situation these mics work fine.... as long as the person is not moving too much the sound is excellent mine is an AT35. Otherwise I've a Senheisser G2 wireless Lav mic set up which is not hugely expensive and gives you the freedom to follow talent around. I often use the AT897 on a boom and the G2 on the talent... in this set up the fact that you have no onboard mic is irrelevant... Re: the DVcam part... to my mind even though my camera doesn't have it ... I doubt I would use it... extra minutes per tape is far more use to me than the slight possibility I may get a drop out.. which incidentally I've only ever had very few..(I only shoot SD for the time being) I saw a tutorial on the DV.com forum where the speaker (a pro video chappy) uses the LP on his cameras and has had very few problems.. giving him 90mins of tape run time, I believe.. I use Sony Premium tapes and they are fine to my mind. Regards Gareth

November 15th, 2005, 12:11 PM	#7
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	Okay... but you know, being that i'm going to be one man handling it all, a boom is not a very good solution. I think these to scenarios are going to be my most common: Camera on tripod. Me with a mic doing an interview. Then what do I do about the real sound? or... Camera on shoulder. Wireless mic on talent. Then what do I do about the real sound? I COULD put a mono mic in the shoe, but then I won't be able to use any photolight. EDIT: So it's possible to record in DV instead of DVCam on the PD150/170?

November 15th, 2005, 12:13 PM	#8
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi Thomas Been looking around the web You can get a Beachtek + AT35 + AT897 for 550 euros a Senheisser G2 wireless lav set will cot you about 570 euros... a lot less than the prices you quote for the 2 cameras.. Hope this helps Gareth

November 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM	#9
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	With the set up I'm talking about the shotgun can be camera mounted very easily... Then a wireless lav leaves you free... I do 90% of my work alone.. so I know what you mean... by the way your lav mic will pick up background too as its an omni mic.. and yes PD's150/170 will do DV too... cheers Gareth

November 15th, 2005, 12:19 PM	#10
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	check out the double shoe bracket..here http://www.b-hague.co.uk/video_accessories.htm allows you to use light and mic togther.. cheers G

November 15th, 2005, 01:16 PM	#11
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	I have acces to pro XLR audio equipment through my school. So what I'm gonna need is: Camera Beachtek XLR adaptor Double shoe bracket (for using when I wan to use photolight) Monomic for the shoe That would get me the same functionality as a PD150/170 right? I get realsound from the monomic in the shoe (connected to the beachtek), I have XLR I/O and I can record two seperate channels.

November 15th, 2005, 01:25 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Sounds like a plan. You only need to decide whether you want the Beachtek model with or without phantom power. At $370 $USD the DXA-8 begins to close the gap between the PD-170 and VX-2100 price enough to make me think twice. The DXA-4 is $170. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont....x=5&image.y=8 Also consider that the PD-170 includes a mono mike and also includes the Sony Wide Angle Lens. Of course the price structure in your country might tip the scales the other way....

November 15th, 2005, 01:58 PM	#13
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	I definately want the one with phantom power - can't use the audio equipment in my school without. But yea with the monomic, the XLR adaptor, the double bracket shoe and that this is gonna be more trouble I'm starting to reconsider the PD150. Someone suggested me Canon XM2 though. Said it had XLR, but it looks like it's an accesory? And I read that the camera's build in mic records the sound from the machinery. If that's so - I deffinately DON'T want to get it. I know there's a canon forum, but my mind is still on a Sony so I'm keeping it in here.

November 15th, 2005, 03:24 PM	#15
Thomas Hartz-Olsson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 63	well IF I'm gonna buy the PD150/170 it's going to be a used one. I guess Sony's support is only within the 2-year warranty?