Pd170 at DVinfo.net

John Frost · November 9th, 2005, 01:35 PM

Hello to all,
I am a novice videographer wanting to invest several thousand dollars in equipment but am not sure what to buy. I have heard many good things about the PD170, but there are so many choices I am quite clueless. One big question I have is about this format. How can I tape weddings or events or whatever without having to change tapes during the event. A lot of weddings last more than an hour. Is 60 minutes the longest recording time that can be achieved with this camera? How do you get around that? How does the sony compare with the canon brand? If anyone can offer any advice I would be very appreciative. Thanks,
John Frost(Lfrost72@netscape.com)

Georg Liigand · November 9th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Hello John!

PD170 is certainly a very good camera, especially for weddings.

There are a bit longer tapes available than 60 minutes (80 or 90 min for example), but they don't do that much good actually. Basically the best way is to simply change the 60 min tapes when there is some less busier period at the event and insert a new tape in case you know that you might run out of tape soon and that there is a more important scene approaching.

Professional wedding videographers often use at least two video cameras to back up the primary one and that's also a way to get around the tape changing problem - the other camera is still recording while you change the tape.

Matt Ludwig · November 9th, 2005, 04:48 PM

Hey John,
PD170 is a great cam, I have one. I'm not sure what your more specific needs are, but if your looking for the best 4:3 SD cam for weddings, I'd say this is it. The XL2 is comparable with Canon, but it is less sensitive in low light and is quite a bit more expensive and larger (Also, its being replaced by the HD XL).
Speaking of HD, you might want to take a look at Sony's FX1 and Z1. They are both basicly the same as the PDs and the VX's but are HD. I chose to get the PD back in September, because I know that for me HD isn't important. Z1 = PD170's HD replacement - FX1 = VX2100 HD replacement. Even if you don't use the HD, they have a signifigantly better 16:9 mode than the PD170. Also, do a search for PD170 vs Z1 or FX1, There are tons of threads disscussing this and simalar topics!
Best of Luck!

Matt Ludwig · November 9th, 2005, 04:49 PM

Hey John,
PD170 is a great cam, I have one. I'm not sure what your more specific needs are, but if your looking for the best 4:3 SD cam for weddings, I'd say this is it. The XL2 is comparable with Canon, but it is less sensitive in low light and is quite a bit more expensive and larger (Also, its being replaced by the HD XL).
Speaking of HD, you might want to take a look at Sony's FX1 and Z1. They are both basicly the same as the PDs and the VX's but are HD. I chose to get the PD back in September, because I know that for me HD isn't important. Z1 = PD170's HD replacement - FX1 = VX2100 HD replacement. Even if you don't use the HD, they have a signifigantly better 16:9 mode than the PD170. Also, do a search for PD170 vs Z1 or FX1, There are tons of threads disscussing this and simalar topics!
Best of Luck!

Don Bloom · November 9th, 2005, 06:25 PM

I used to use 2 PD150s for my weddings (I use a slightly different configuartion now) and IMHO they are the gold standard for weddings. I include the 170 in there of course. As for tape length I have in the past used 83 minute PanasonicPQs without problem but decided last year to use the 63 minute PQ exclusively. Cost thing! As for changing tapes, dure a typical Catholic full mass ceremony I change tapes in my primary camera during the communion of the masses, in other words when the congregation is going up for communion. For shorter ceremonies I don't worry about it of course and have never run out during the course of the ceremony. In post just dissolve the 2 tapes together and all will be well. ;-)
HTHs
Don

Boyd Ostroff · November 9th, 2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Ludwig

(Also, its being replaced by the HD XL).

I believe this is incorrect. The Canon XL H1 is not a replacement for the XL2 but a completely different product.

John Frost · November 9th, 2005, 08:37 PM

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my questions. I am anxious to get started in this videography business. There are so many options to choose from I just want to make the right decisions. It seems as though the Sony PD-170 is quite popular and used by many. I have read many reviews about its excellent low-light ability. I will still need a light though right? I mean at places where it is very dim. I do not want a grainy picture. How is the zoom and focus on the 170? Also, I spoke with someone at BH who said I would need a shoulder strap or something if I planned to hold the camera. I take it it isnt an on shoulder camera? Any suggestions where to purchase these cameras and accessories? I mean as far as price and customer service. Once again thank you to all who have replied so far. This is an excellent resource for people in videography!

Matt Ludwig · November 9th, 2005, 08:48 PM

Boyd,
I guess I was thinking too far ahead. In the long run I would estimate HD will eventually replace SD --But I do know that this doesn't mean HDV will become the standard. Thanks for the clarification

Don Bloom · November 9th, 2005, 10:32 PM

John,
In no particular order-B&H has good prices, great service and is a site sponsor. I've spent many many dollars with them and have never had a problem.
As for the "shoulder strap" if you're talking about a carry strap the camera comes with one. If you're talking about a shoulder brace, frankly I wouldn't waste the money. I have one for the 150s and it gets very heavy after a short time. You'd be better off with either or both a tripod and or monopod. As for a light, well I don't know about where you live but in my area (greater Chicagoland area) the NORM for receptions is to turn the lights down about as low as possible thus not only making it impossible for granny to see where shes going but for the videographer to feel like he (she) needs a few 1000W tota lights! Yeah an on camera light is a good if not necessary tool to have. The Sony 10/20W seems to be the light of choice-I personally don't use it but I do use an Anton Bauer 20W with a softbox and it works fine. If I do need more than that I can use a Bescor 50W. As for zoom and focus on the 170, well based on my 150s it works great. HOWEVER, if you plan on using manual focus LEARN which way to turn the focus ring to focus (also the zoom ring) BTW, this is more of a personal thing and a small joke meant for me as I sometimes forget which way to turn the rings! The auto iris feature on the 150/170 works very well and actually so does the auto focus in most situations but the manual settings do work so much better. The 170 has a better iris control than the 150. Oh BTW, no the 170 is not a shoulder mount camera. It is what is commonly referred to as a 'bread loaf" because thats pretty much the way you hold it, like a loaf of bread or a baby. Too hard to describe right now ;-) If you do want a shoulder mount camera then there are other options. Heres something else to consider. If you plan to do weddings you should have at least 3 of the biggest batteries you can buy for each piece of gear that uses batteries. IOW, for each camera you should have 3 batteries, for the light, 3 batteries etc. ALSO a dual battery charger is a great investment and not expensive. Audio gear, tripod(s) monopod(s) 2nd camera, a bag or case to carry everything, light(s)...You notice a theme here. Backup everything you have, with at least another one and better with 2. A lesson (free of charge) better to have it and not need it than not have it and die for it. Meaning over a period of time you'll need to backup cameras, lights, audio. Of course all the time buying the new stuff that comes out and just gotta have. Oh well, such is the life!
Anyway hope that helps a bit, good luck and have fun!
Don

Tom Hardwick · November 10th, 2005, 04:00 AM

As Don says, the Sony HVL-20DW2 video light works superbly on top of the 170 (and on top of any cam for that matter). I soften the light with a velcro attached Lumiquest diffuser for two reasons - to avoid blinding the wedding guests and to allow me to use a very powerful wide-angle converter. The diffusion adds area coverage, see.

The 20DW2 uses the same batteries that power the PD170, there's no power cords to get in the way and it's simple, compact and light (Ha!).

John, your choice of the 170 for weddings is a good one, and up to this day the camera was impossible to beat at the price. Canon, Panasonic, JVC all looked on with envy. The only downside from now on is its 16:9 performance, which isn't special as the camera was designed to be a 4:3 beast.

So if your clients are going to be asking for a 16:9 movie you'll have to up your sights a bit and get the Z1. And if your clients aren't asking for a 16:9 film, they'll sure be expecting one to arrive.

tom.

November 9th, 2005, 01:35 PM	#1
John Frost Tourist Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3	Pd170 Hello to all, I am a novice videographer wanting to invest several thousand dollars in equipment but am not sure what to buy. I have heard many good things about the PD170, but there are so many choices I am quite clueless. One big question I have is about this format. How can I tape weddings or events or whatever without having to change tapes during the event. A lot of weddings last more than an hour. Is 60 minutes the longest recording time that can be achieved with this camera? How do you get around that? How does the sony compare with the canon brand? If anyone can offer any advice I would be very appreciative. Thanks, John Frost(Lfrost72@netscape.com)

November 9th, 2005, 04:48 PM	#3
Matt Ludwig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 51	Hey John, PD170 is a great cam, I have one. I'm not sure what your more specific needs are, but if your looking for the best 4:3 SD cam for weddings, I'd say this is it. The XL2 is comparable with Canon, but it is less sensitive in low light and is quite a bit more expensive and larger (Also, its being replaced by the HD XL). Speaking of HD, you might want to take a look at Sony's FX1 and Z1. They are both basicly the same as the PDs and the VX's but are HD. I chose to get the PD back in September, because I know that for me HD isn't important. Z1 = PD170's HD replacement - FX1 = VX2100 HD replacement. Even if you don't use the HD, they have a signifigantly better 16:9 mode than the PD170. Also, do a search for PD170 vs Z1 or FX1, There are tons of threads disscussing this and simalar topics! Best of Luck! __________________ Matt Ludwig MSL Productions - www.freewebs.com/mslpro

November 9th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#4
Matt Ludwig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 51	Hey John, PD170 is a great cam, I have one. I'm not sure what your more specific needs are, but if your looking for the best 4:3 SD cam for weddings, I'd say this is it. The XL2 is comparable with Canon, but it is less sensitive in low light and is quite a bit more expensive and larger (Also, its being replaced by the HD XL). Speaking of HD, you might want to take a look at Sony's FX1 and Z1. They are both basicly the same as the PDs and the VX's but are HD. I chose to get the PD back in September, because I know that for me HD isn't important. Z1 = PD170's HD replacement - FX1 = VX2100 HD replacement. Even if you don't use the HD, they have a signifigantly better 16:9 mode than the PD170. Also, do a search for PD170 vs Z1 or FX1, There are tons of threads disscussing this and simalar topics! Best of Luck! __________________ Matt Ludwig MSL Productions - www.freewebs.com/mslpro

November 9th, 2005, 08:37 PM	#7
John Frost Tourist Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3	Thanks for the responses Thank you to everyone who has replied to my questions. I am anxious to get started in this videography business. There are so many options to choose from I just want to make the right decisions. It seems as though the Sony PD-170 is quite popular and used by many. I have read many reviews about its excellent low-light ability. I will still need a light though right? I mean at places where it is very dim. I do not want a grainy picture. How is the zoom and focus on the 170? Also, I spoke with someone at BH who said I would need a shoulder strap or something if I planned to hold the camera. I take it it isnt an on shoulder camera? Any suggestions where to purchase these cameras and accessories? I mean as far as price and customer service. Once again thank you to all who have replied so far. This is an excellent resource for people in videography!

November 9th, 2005, 08:48 PM	#8
Matt Ludwig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 51	Boyd, I guess I was thinking too far ahead. In the long run I would estimate HD will eventually replace SD --But I do know that this doesn't mean HDV will become the standard. Thanks for the clarification __________________ Matt Ludwig MSL Productions - www.freewebs.com/mslpro

November 9th, 2005, 04:32 PM	#2
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	Hello John! PD170 is certainly a very good camera, especially for weddings. There are a bit longer tapes available than 60 minutes (80 or 90 min for example), but they don't do that much good actually. Basically the best way is to simply change the 60 min tapes when there is some less busier period at the event and insert a new tape in case you know that you might run out of tape soon and that there is a more important scene approaching. Professional wedding videographers often use at least two video cameras to back up the primary one and that's also a way to get around the tape changing problem - the other camera is still recording while you change the tape.

November 9th, 2005, 06:25 PM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I used to use 2 PD150s for my weddings (I use a slightly different configuartion now) and IMHO they are the gold standard for weddings. I include the 170 in there of course. As for tape length I have in the past used 83 minute PanasonicPQs without problem but decided last year to use the 63 minute PQ exclusively. Cost thing! As for changing tapes, dure a typical Catholic full mass ceremony I change tapes in my primary camera during the communion of the masses, in other words when the congregation is going up for communion. For shorter ceremonies I don't worry about it of course and have never run out during the course of the ceremony. In post just dissolve the 2 tapes together and all will be well. ;-) HTHs Don

November 9th, 2005, 10:32 PM	#9
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	John, In no particular order-B&H has good prices, great service and is a site sponsor. I've spent many many dollars with them and have never had a problem. As for the "shoulder strap" if you're talking about a carry strap the camera comes with one. If you're talking about a shoulder brace, frankly I wouldn't waste the money. I have one for the 150s and it gets very heavy after a short time. You'd be better off with either or both a tripod and or monopod. As for a light, well I don't know about where you live but in my area (greater Chicagoland area) the NORM for receptions is to turn the lights down about as low as possible thus not only making it impossible for granny to see where shes going but for the videographer to feel like he (she) needs a few 1000W tota lights! Yeah an on camera light is a good if not necessary tool to have. The Sony 10/20W seems to be the light of choice-I personally don't use it but I do use an Anton Bauer 20W with a softbox and it works fine. If I do need more than that I can use a Bescor 50W. As for zoom and focus on the 170, well based on my 150s it works great. HOWEVER, if you plan on using manual focus LEARN which way to turn the focus ring to focus (also the zoom ring) BTW, this is more of a personal thing and a small joke meant for me as I sometimes forget which way to turn the rings! The auto iris feature on the 150/170 works very well and actually so does the auto focus in most situations but the manual settings do work so much better. The 170 has a better iris control than the 150. Oh BTW, no the 170 is not a shoulder mount camera. It is what is commonly referred to as a 'bread loaf" because thats pretty much the way you hold it, like a loaf of bread or a baby. Too hard to describe right now ;-) If you do want a shoulder mount camera then there are other options. Heres something else to consider. If you plan to do weddings you should have at least 3 of the biggest batteries you can buy for each piece of gear that uses batteries. IOW, for each camera you should have 3 batteries, for the light, 3 batteries etc. ALSO a dual battery charger is a great investment and not expensive. Audio gear, tripod(s) monopod(s) 2nd camera, a bag or case to carry everything, light(s)...You notice a theme here. Backup everything you have, with at least another one and better with 2. A lesson (free of charge) better to have it and not need it than not have it and die for it. Meaning over a period of time you'll need to backup cameras, lights, audio. Of course all the time buying the new stuff that comes out and just gotta have. Oh well, such is the life! Anyway hope that helps a bit, good luck and have fun! Don

November 10th, 2005, 04:00 AM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	As Don says, the Sony HVL-20DW2 video light works superbly on top of the 170 (and on top of any cam for that matter). I soften the light with a velcro attached Lumiquest diffuser for two reasons - to avoid blinding the wedding guests and to allow me to use a very powerful wide-angle converter. The diffusion adds area coverage, see. The 20DW2 uses the same batteries that power the PD170, there's no power cords to get in the way and it's simple, compact and light (Ha!). John, your choice of the 170 for weddings is a good one, and up to this day the camera was impossible to beat at the price. Canon, Panasonic, JVC all looked on with envy. The only downside from now on is its 16:9 performance, which isn't special as the camera was designed to be a 4:3 beast. So if your clients are going to be asking for a 16:9 movie you'll have to up your sights a bit and get the Z1. And if your clients aren't asking for a 16:9 film, they'll sure be expecting one to arrive. tom.