Will Sony update the PD170? at DVinfo.net

Malachi Constant · October 23rd, 2005, 10:38 PM

I see that Panasonic is in the process of updating their DVX100A to the DVX100B while also preparing to introduce their new HD camera, the HVX200. Personally, I compliment Panasonic on not neglecting their SD line while developing HD. It seems to me that the PD170 could use an update as well. Question is: Will Sony update, or just leave the 170 as-is and focus on pushing their HDcams? I need a new camera soon, and since I have no use for HD, will certainly consider the updated Panny if Sony decides to let the 170 languish.

James Connors · October 24th, 2005, 09:56 AM

I'm not convinced the lower end PD series is going to be continued. The PD170 was more than a half arsed effort (see earlier thread I made) and offered only a few advantages over the PD150, as Sony seemed a lot more keen to put their efforts into consumer/low end professional level HDV camcorders. The FX1/Z1E is basically a replacement for the PD170 whilst the 170 is still in production. I think its at the end of its lifespan. Wouldn't say no to a brand new SD camcorder mind!

Malachi Constant · October 24th, 2005, 12:17 PM

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...del=AG-DVX100B

On Panasonic's website..

Pat Sherman · October 26th, 2005, 07:10 AM

If you check out Sony's site they are in the process of updating their U.S. DVCAM page. In any event they have a banner on their with the following slogan, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

While I agree overall it ain't broke.. It sure could use some feature updates..:)

Boyd Ostroff · October 26th, 2005, 09:25 AM

My personal guess is that they'll keep making them until sales fall off to a point where it isn't justified. Then it will quietly disappear from their lineup. Rumors are that production has already stopped on the VX-2100 and they are just selling inventory.

Glen Elliott · October 26th, 2005, 03:53 PM

PD-190:
- 24p capability
- Native 16:9 chips
- .5lux rating
- Plus 6oz. lighter than the 170

....though this is only my "dream".

Jack Markham · October 26th, 2005, 07:50 PM

Oh yes. 16x9 chips and get rid of the outdated, pre-NLE, dedicated buttons. Give us user definded buttons instead.

Mike Rehmus · October 26th, 2005, 09:11 PM

And a built-in waveform monitor and audio spectral analyzer

Jack Markham · October 27th, 2005, 07:48 AM

Wouldn't that make it just a bit heavy?

Mike Rehmus · October 27th, 2005, 09:00 AM

It is an extra chip. Everything else is present for those functions.

James Connors · October 28th, 2005, 08:43 AM

Whats the 24p mode like in sony's models that support it? In a way I applaud sony for sticking to 50i/60i models, and not trying to push the whole "pretend your video is film!" direction the other brands are going for, but it would be nice to have the option sometimes.

16x9 native is inexecusable mind, especially when cheaper cameras had this when the PD170 was launched.. what were they thinking? It could've easily have convinced a lot of 150 users to upgrade rather than just sit back and think "so.. what is different exactly?"

Boyd Ostroff · October 28th, 2005, 12:50 PM

Which models are you talking about? I don't think any of Sony's prosumer cameras offer real "24p." The Z1 has Cineframe 30, cf25 and cf24. The NTSC FX1 has cf24 and cf30.

Lots has been written about these - search the Z1 forum for "cineframe". Also see the following discussion by Adam Wilt:

http://adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

James Connors · October 28th, 2005, 02:15 PM

Yeah sorry I meant to mention both the pseudo-24P and the (what I believe to be real?) 24p on the high end cams like the XDCAM. Obviously the XD is incomparable to a low end pro camcorder, but i'd be interested in knowing how it looks in comparison to shooting straight 50/60i on the unit.

Cheers for the link, will have a read now.

Craig Seeman · October 28th, 2005, 11:18 PM

Everyone thinks of HDV (DVCPRO HD in the HVX) and SD is a divide. Note the Z1 does and the HVX200 will shoot in DV as well as HD.

My personal peeve is low light performance. For that reason the 170 will hang on a bit. Low light performance is one of the areas of improvement in the DVX 100B. When the 1/3" chip HD type cameras can handle low light nearly as well as the 170, the market may fade it to black. I do think that will happen within the next revision or two of the 1/3" HD type cameras though. Just not there yet.

Malachi Constant · October 31st, 2005, 01:30 PM

I went to B&H yesterday to test a few of their cameras, which are set up around a WELL ILLUMINATED test area. I shot with the Sony Z1 in DVCAM and the Panasonic dvx100A. Based on the footage comparison, I will be ordering a DVX100B as soon as it becomes available (probably any day now). From what I saw, the DVX delivered the better picture, and it's got better audio performance as well. I need a camera SOON and I don't have a single client who's got the slightest interest in HD.

October 23rd, 2005, 10:38 PM	#1
Malachi Constant Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	Will Sony update the PD170? I see that Panasonic is in the process of updating their DVX100A to the DVX100B while also preparing to introduce their new HD camera, the HVX200. Personally, I compliment Panasonic on not neglecting their SD line while developing HD. It seems to me that the PD170 could use an update as well. Question is: Will Sony update, or just leave the 170 as-is and focus on pushing their HDcams? I need a new camera soon, and since I have no use for HD, will certainly consider the updated Panny if Sony decides to let the 170 languish.

October 24th, 2005, 12:17 PM	#3
Malachi Constant Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	Link to updatd DVX http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...del=AG-DVX100B On Panasonic's website..

October 26th, 2005, 03:53 PM	#6
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	PD-190: - 24p capability - Native 16:9 chips - .5lux rating - Plus 6oz. lighter than the 170 ....though this is only my "dream". __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

October 26th, 2005, 07:50 PM	#7
Jack Markham New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 19	PD170 definitely could use a feature update Oh yes. 16x9 chips and get rid of the outdated, pre-NLE, dedicated buttons. Give us user definded buttons instead.

October 26th, 2005, 09:11 PM	#8
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	And a built-in waveform monitor and audio spectral analyzer __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 24th, 2005, 09:56 AM	#2
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	I'm not convinced the lower end PD series is going to be continued. The PD170 was more than a half arsed effort (see earlier thread I made) and offered only a few advantages over the PD150, as Sony seemed a lot more keen to put their efforts into consumer/low end professional level HDV camcorders. The FX1/Z1E is basically a replacement for the PD170 whilst the 170 is still in production. I think its at the end of its lifespan. Wouldn't say no to a brand new SD camcorder mind!

October 26th, 2005, 07:10 AM	#4
Pat Sherman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: DuPont, Wa Posts: 325	If you check out Sony's site they are in the process of updating their U.S. DVCAM page. In any event they have a banner on their with the following slogan, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". While I agree overall it ain't broke.. It sure could use some feature updates..:)

October 26th, 2005, 09:25 AM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	My personal guess is that they'll keep making them until sales fall off to a point where it isn't justified. Then it will quietly disappear from their lineup. Rumors are that production has already stopped on the VX-2100 and they are just selling inventory.

October 27th, 2005, 07:48 AM	#9
Jack Markham New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 19	Wouldn't that make it just a bit heavy?

October 27th, 2005, 09:00 AM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	It is an extra chip. Everything else is present for those functions. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 28th, 2005, 08:43 AM	#11
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Whats the 24p mode like in sony's models that support it? In a way I applaud sony for sticking to 50i/60i models, and not trying to push the whole "pretend your video is film!" direction the other brands are going for, but it would be nice to have the option sometimes. 16x9 native is inexecusable mind, especially when cheaper cameras had this when the PD170 was launched.. what were they thinking? It could've easily have convinced a lot of 150 users to upgrade rather than just sit back and think "so.. what is different exactly?"

October 28th, 2005, 12:50 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Which models are you talking about? I don't think any of Sony's prosumer cameras offer real "24p." The Z1 has Cineframe 30, cf25 and cf24. The NTSC FX1 has cf24 and cf30. Lots has been written about these - search the Z1 forum for "cineframe". Also see the following discussion by Adam Wilt: http://adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

October 28th, 2005, 02:15 PM	#13
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Yeah sorry I meant to mention both the pseudo-24P and the (what I believe to be real?) 24p on the high end cams like the XDCAM. Obviously the XD is incomparable to a low end pro camcorder, but i'd be interested in knowing how it looks in comparison to shooting straight 50/60i on the unit. Cheers for the link, will have a read now.

October 28th, 2005, 11:18 PM	#14
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Everyone thinks of HDV (DVCPRO HD in the HVX) and SD is a divide. Note the Z1 does and the HVX200 will shoot in DV as well as HD. My personal peeve is low light performance. For that reason the 170 will hang on a bit. Low light performance is one of the areas of improvement in the DVX 100B. When the 1/3" chip HD type cameras can handle low light nearly as well as the 170, the market may fade it to black. I do think that will happen within the next revision or two of the 1/3" HD type cameras though. Just not there yet.

October 31st, 2005, 01:30 PM	#15
Malachi Constant Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	It's not only low light.... I went to B&H yesterday to test a few of their cameras, which are set up around a WELL ILLUMINATED test area. I shot with the Sony Z1 in DVCAM and the Panasonic dvx100A. Based on the footage comparison, I will be ordering a DVX100B as soon as it becomes available (probably any day now). From what I saw, the DVX delivered the better picture, and it's got better audio performance as well. I need a camera SOON and I don't have a single client who's got the slightest interest in HD.