Blue vertical lines!!! HELP! at DVinfo.net

Riva Khanna · August 22nd, 2005, 07:59 PM

Hello,
I have a pd150 and have only 130hours of shooting on it. Last week, as i was shooting, some blue and green lines appered in semi-transparency on top of the images. The problem was transfered to the tape so it is not the LCD screen. A couple of hours later the trouble was gone. Today, as soon as I turned it on the Blue lines appered again. No more green ones. The problen was modified a bit though; imagine I had been filming a skyline, well all the buildings were under-exposed and the rest was blue. These are vertical thick lines that go from the top to the bottom of the frame.
Has this ever happened to any of you or did you ever hear of something similar.
Please help me if you can, the technician says it might be the prism although he has never seen one do such a thing...

I am in the middle of a shooting, so it pretty much worries me...

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Riva

Mike Rehmus · August 22nd, 2005, 08:07 PM

Sounds like a CCD or image processing chain problem. Clearly that camera is not going to be used on a shoot until it makes a trip to Sony. I'd send it to Sony because if it is a CCD block, they may replace it under warranty and only charge you for labor. They have done that for a fellow in Indonesia if IIRC within the last year.

Riva Khanna · August 23rd, 2005, 06:49 AM

Thanks for the tip !

Graham Risdon · August 25th, 2005, 01:35 PM

I had a similar problem with my PD150 a couple of months ago. I use it as part of a steadicam JR rig and at one location, I experienced some vertical lines. The JR monitor suffers from this and so I put it down to that until I reviewed the rushes - the lines were there on the tape. I then tested the whole camera with and without JR and all was fine. However, when I returned to the location to reshoot the steadicam stuff, the lines reappeared!
When I got home, I tryed the rig again - no problems, so everything was fine everywhere except that location!

The only thing I can think of is that there were a number of overhead power lines at the location and they caused some form of interference... I did read somewhere that power lines can cause problems with optical steadyshot switched on...

Anyone else got any ideas, because it had me baffled - the kit's worked fine ever since.

Graham
www.mediainventions.com

Mike Rehmus · August 25th, 2005, 03:55 PM

The PD150/2100/170/2000 all suffer from external electrical interference. Radios are the real culprit. Even a cell phone held next to a camera can generate problems. Get near a police radio and listen/feel your SteadyShot hit so hard, it shakes the camera.

I've never had image artifacts other than the steadyshot except around unshielded automotive ignition systems.

Graham Risdon · August 26th, 2005, 02:57 PM

Hi Mike

What artefacts do you get with auto ignitions - just the usual random static?
No vertical lines?
Thanks

Graham

Mike Rehmus · August 26th, 2005, 04:06 PM

It depends on the ignition system. I've gotten little white traces that follow the secondary ignition cables (very strange that) and general video noise and heavy hits on the sound recording if I used an microphone anywhere close to the source. For straight vertical lines to develop, I'd expect the noise source to be somewhat syncronized to the camera clock. Horizontal lines don't have to have synchronous sources.

I've been told but I haven't experienced it myself that neon signs and lights can effect these cameras.

These cameras have very little shielding and they use low-power electronics which means their internal signal amplitudes are quite small. It is a bad combination when the cameras are around any kind of electrical interference.

I first learned of this when I'd sent my 150 into Sony and they couldn't find a problem. I'd be out riding with the Police and the camera would jump in my hands. The second time I sent it in, they gave me a new one.

Simultaneously with the second trip to Atlanta, a CNN cameraman in LA said that riding in Police cars with a 150 was a whole new experience when the OIS would slam into the stops so hard it shook the camera and you could hear it in the sound.

The solution in that case is to turn the OIS off. Just what you want when filming events in the dark!

Graham Risdon · August 27th, 2005, 01:12 PM

Thanks Mike
I guess the idea of sync with the camera producing vertical lines could possibly suggest overhead power lines as it's transmitted at 50 Hz (the PAL scan rate)?

Does this make sense or is it a case of a little knowledge is dangerous? ;-)

Graham

John Poulakis · November 27th, 2006, 03:48 AM

I just recently had the same problem with my PD170 (purchased 2nd hand with only 8 hours of running time on it)- started to experience this blueish vetical lines (after only 12 hours of use) or smears from the top and streaking down vertically across the screen. At first I thought it was the bright lights from above (filming in a wedding reception lounge) - but this never used to happen before. Then I noticed my colour balance was out of control and could not adjust it in manual or auto modes.

So in it went for a Sony check and guess what?

Needed the following replacements:
1. New mounted c.board,pwb, cd-512
2. Prism Assembly

Total cost including labour: AUD$780.00

I dont have it back yet. Hope to have it back next few days and hope its running by the weekend. Fortunately its only a back-up camera.

--------------

Only 2 weeks ago - I had the Stabilising unit changed on my Canon XL2 - prior to that I started to experience slight flickers or twitches in the footage - more prominent when I was zoomed in and trying to hold a steady shot with the Stabilizer on - that was another AUD$800.00

---------------

Heres a question for you all - how sensitive are these cameras to shock and movement - being a (busy) wedding videographer - one can appreciate the workout we do during a wedding day shoot - and the occasional running and jumping in the car between location shoots and camera on the shoulder. Are these cameras designed to be used in gentle carm conditions only - what could of caused the problems to both my cameras one after the other?

Regards
ColorWiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riva Khanna

Hello,
I have a pd150 and have only 130hours of shooting on it. Last week, as i was shooting, some blue and green lines appered in semi-transparency on top of the images. The problem was transfered to the tape so it is not the LCD screen. A couple of hours later the trouble was gone. Today, as soon as I turned it on the Blue lines appered again. No more green ones. The problen was modified a bit though; imagine I had been filming a skyline, well all the buildings were under-exposed and the rest was blue. These are vertical thick lines that go from the top to the bottom of the frame.
Has this ever happened to any of you or did you ever hear of something similar.
Please help me if you can, the technician says it might be the prism although he has never seen one do such a thing...

I am in the middle of a shooting, so it pretty much worries me...

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Riva

Mike Rehmus · November 27th, 2006, 09:03 AM

The Sony camera is very rugged. I cannot speak for the Canon.

I use it for weddings and SWAT team work with no problems.

Jay Voog · January 11th, 2007, 04:56 PM

I have had these issues with my vx2100 camera. blue and green lines transparent on the image (gets recorded to tape that way as well). I called Sony and they just informed me there is a recall on this issue because of a settlement. They assured me that this issue would be fixed along with any other issues i have with the camera for no charge. they even pay for the shipping both ways...telling me 7-10 business days.

there are many cameras listed that they have under this recall. just letting you know.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...id_legalnotice

Jay Voog · January 11th, 2007, 05:09 PM

I just noticed there is another thread about this issue, and this is basically old news. but i just encountered the issue with my camera, so hopefully this can help others.

just wanted to make sure everyone could take advantage of this recall.

August 22nd, 2005, 07:59 PM	#1
Riva Khanna Tourist Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	Blue vertical lines!!! HELP! Hello, I have a pd150 and have only 130hours of shooting on it. Last week, as i was shooting, some blue and green lines appered in semi-transparency on top of the images. The problem was transfered to the tape so it is not the LCD screen. A couple of hours later the trouble was gone. Today, as soon as I turned it on the Blue lines appered again. No more green ones. The problen was modified a bit though; imagine I had been filming a skyline, well all the buildings were under-exposed and the rest was blue. These are vertical thick lines that go from the top to the bottom of the frame. Has this ever happened to any of you or did you ever hear of something similar. Please help me if you can, the technician says it might be the prism although he has never seen one do such a thing... I am in the middle of a shooting, so it pretty much worries me... Thank you for taking the time to read this. Riva

August 22nd, 2005, 08:07 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Sounds like a CCD or image processing chain problem. Clearly that camera is not going to be used on a shoot until it makes a trip to Sony. I'd send it to Sony because if it is a CCD block, they may replace it under warranty and only charge you for labor. They have done that for a fellow in Indonesia if IIRC within the last year. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 25th, 2005, 01:35 PM	#4
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Odd Lines... I had a similar problem with my PD150 a couple of months ago. I use it as part of a steadicam JR rig and at one location, I experienced some vertical lines. The JR monitor suffers from this and so I put it down to that until I reviewed the rushes - the lines were there on the tape. I then tested the whole camera with and without JR and all was fine. However, when I returned to the location to reshoot the steadicam stuff, the lines reappeared! When I got home, I tryed the rig again - no problems, so everything was fine everywhere except that location! The only thing I can think of is that there were a number of overhead power lines at the location and they caused some form of interference... I did read somewhere that power lines can cause problems with optical steadyshot switched on... Anyone else got any ideas, because it had me baffled - the kit's worked fine ever since. Graham www.mediainventions.com

August 25th, 2005, 03:55 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The PD150/2100/170/2000 all suffer from external electrical interference. Radios are the real culprit. Even a cell phone held next to a camera can generate problems. Get near a police radio and listen/feel your SteadyShot hit so hard, it shakes the camera. I've never had image artifacts other than the steadyshot except around unshielded automotive ignition systems. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 26th, 2005, 02:57 PM	#6
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Artefacts Hi Mike What artefacts do you get with auto ignitions - just the usual random static? No vertical lines? Thanks Graham

August 23rd, 2005, 06:49 AM	#3
Riva Khanna Tourist Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	Thanks for the tip !

August 26th, 2005, 04:06 PM	#7
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	It depends on the ignition system. I've gotten little white traces that follow the secondary ignition cables (very strange that) and general video noise and heavy hits on the sound recording if I used an microphone anywhere close to the source. For straight vertical lines to develop, I'd expect the noise source to be somewhat syncronized to the camera clock. Horizontal lines don't have to have synchronous sources. I've been told but I haven't experienced it myself that neon signs and lights can effect these cameras. These cameras have very little shielding and they use low-power electronics which means their internal signal amplitudes are quite small. It is a bad combination when the cameras are around any kind of electrical interference. I first learned of this when I'd sent my 150 into Sony and they couldn't find a problem. I'd be out riding with the Police and the camera would jump in my hands. The second time I sent it in, they gave me a new one. Simultaneously with the second trip to Atlanta, a CNN cameraman in LA said that riding in Police cars with a 150 was a whole new experience when the OIS would slam into the stops so hard it shook the camera and you could hear it in the sound. The solution in that case is to turn the OIS off. Just what you want when filming events in the dark! __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 27th, 2005, 01:12 PM	#8
Graham Risdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 192	Thanks Mike I guess the idea of sync with the camera producing vertical lines could possibly suggest overhead power lines as it's transmitted at 50 Hz (the PAL scan rate)? Does this make sense or is it a case of a little knowledge is dangerous? ;-) Graham

November 27th, 2006, 09:03 AM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The Sony camera is very rugged. I cannot speak for the Canon. I use it for weddings and SWAT team work with no problems. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 11th, 2007, 04:56 PM	#11
Jay Voog Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 86	RECALL...image sensor CCD issue with Sony cameras! I have had these issues with my vx2100 camera. blue and green lines transparent on the image (gets recorded to tape that way as well). I called Sony and they just informed me there is a recall on this issue because of a settlement. They assured me that this issue would be fixed along with any other issues i have with the camera for no charge. they even pay for the shipping both ways...telling me 7-10 business days. there are many cameras listed that they have under this recall. just letting you know. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...id_legalnotice __________________ Jay ---------------------------- Sony VX2100 cam; FCP 5.0.4

January 11th, 2007, 05:09 PM	#12
Jay Voog Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 86	sorry. I just noticed there is another thread about this issue, and this is basically old news. but i just encountered the issue with my camera, so hopefully this can help others. just wanted to make sure everyone could take advantage of this recall. __________________ Jay ---------------------------- Sony VX2100 cam; FCP 5.0.4