Help! Playing Back tapes from PD150 on VX2000?

Help! And THANKS for any answers to this Audio problem.
I have recently acquired a Sony PD150, and a Sony VX2000.
When I record sound on my PD150 and play it back on my VX2000,
the sounds cuts in and out. When I record sound on my VX2000 and play it back on my PD150, the sound also cuts in an out.
Both cameras are set at 16bit sound. If I feed footage into Premiere and play back, the sound cutting in and out is still there. Does this have something to do with the fact that the VX2000 records in stereo, and the PD150 in mono? Is the VX2000 also 48K as the PD150 is? Is my only solution to be careful with tapes and keep sound recorded with each camera on separate tapes? Help!!!!

[Andre De Clercq]

Are there any images when you record the sound. Do they look OK?

I think I might be on the trail of the problem. The video is fine.
The PD150 is new. The VX2K is used. I use only Sony Excellence in the PD150, but the guy who had the VX2K only used Sony, and did not maintain the camera very well. So, I tried taking a tape out and listening to headphones, and there was no sound fading in and out, sound was good. Am going to buy a Fuji tape, and try that. Should'n't matter, but I hear it all the time, people using only one brand of tape, and that solves their problems. So.....we'll see. I hope that is all there is to it. I would obviously prefer to use just one brand of tape though.

[Mike Rehmus]

Couple of big Whoa's here. You need to approach this as a problem with a logical solution.

1. The 150 is indeed Stereo. It just happens to have a mono microphone.

2. Switching tape brands is likely to increase your problems, not solve them.

3. Either camera can be set to record sound at 48KZ or 32 Khz.

-------------DUH. Make that 12 or 16 bit-------------------

You don't need to set playback as far as I know.

4. You stated in your post that both cameras have been using Sony tapes. Don't switch.

5. Have you cleaned the heads as per Sony's instructions?

If the headphone sound is clear from both cameras but you cannot play tapes made on one camera, from the other, then you might have some sort of transport alignment problem.

You did not say what happens if you record image and sound on the 150 and then transfer that to your computer. What happens?

Is premiere set up correctly for transfer from these cameras? Does the computer have a separate drive for video capture and edit?

[Andre De Clercq]

Mike, your input is helpfull I think, but if the image is fine, (and that was my question), it is not obvious that a transport alignment or back tension problem would cause the problem. Especially because the digitized audio is not layed down at the outside of the tracks. Beause the problem is periodic ("in and out") I am thinking (although never heart about on these cams) on audio clocking out of specs in one of them. I would advise bslanger to try footage of both cams on a third player. If DVcam is involved, the locked/unlocked audio issue has to be verified.

[Mike Rehmus]

<<<-- Originally posted by dre..... : Mike, your input is helpfull I think, but if the image is fine, (and that was my question), it is not obvious that a transport alignment or back tension problem would cause the problem.

BSLanger never stated that he had played the tapes back in the cameras on which they were recorded. His reference in the second post is to listening to the camera without a tape . . . e.g., listening to the sound captured in real-time without recording it on a tape first. At least that's what I infer from the two posts.


Especially because the digitized audio is not layed down at the outside of the tracks. Beause the problem is periodic ("in and out") I am thinking (although never heart about on these cams) on audio clocking out of specs in one of them.

That's why I asked if premiere were set up correctly. I've never heard of a sony camera having sound synch problems with a default setup of any editing system. Only those who are set up (modified) to handle Canon's brand of DV.

I would advise bslanger to try footage of both cams on a third player. If DVcam is involved, the locked/unlocked audio issue has to be verified.

I would be surprised as I mix DV and DVCam all the time with no problems. Whether the deck is a DSR-20, a PD-150 or a PC110.

There is also the question of when and where the AV was recorded. If there were loud and irregular sounds and the cameras were on AGC, then the AGC could be 'pumping' and causing the problem. It can sound just like a defect in the system.

First, thanks so much for ANY help. He is more details. The PD150 is fine. It records fine, plays back fine on camera, goes into Premiere fine, comes from Premiere back to PD150 fine, and plays fine in the Sony VX700 that is hooked to my VHS recorder.
I have done other videos with the PD150 and everything has been great. The problem started solely with this VX2000.

It was traded for a used VX1000, so I thought that was a good deal. But....

In any case, I had made a typo before. The previous owner used Fuji tapes, not Sony. I tried a Fuji tape on the VX2000, but same problem.

Let me describe the problem more in detail. Whether I record from the built in mic, from the mic jack using a Samson UHF Lav mic, or play footage from Premiere into the camera, the problem always sounds the same. I will get maybe 15 -20 seconds of good sound from the VX2000, then the sound will drop to about
10 percent of the previous level for about 5 seconds or so. The timing on this is not regular though. Additionally, even when the sound is appropriately loud, before it dips, I can hear a slightly metallic sound in the background, sort of like a smooth piece of metal clinking and dragging against another piece of metal. Almost like those 'triangles' that one uses in band, hitting with a metal wand on the triangle. It's faint, but distinct and consistent.

I received the camera, and did not really test it before I took it to the Sony authorized shop to have the heads cleaned and the alignment checked. I have had work done before from the same technician, so I would be surprized if he caused this problem, but it may be possible, as it was rush service. The previous owner is trustworthy, but it was shipped in the mail. However, it was packed extremely well.

My next step seems to be to take it back to the shop. I called him, and as usual, he said it could be any number of things. The technician is competent, but I would not say 'brilliant', so any suggestions you might have that I could pass on would help.

I have used Premiere for several months without mishap before.
I have used it with the VX1000 the PD150, and it works fine.
I tried altering some of the 32K and 48K and 44.1K settings on the output and input, seleceted the appropriate camera from the input menu of cameras, so I don't think the problem is with Premiere, even though I don't have a dedicated capture card, just the generic one with my HP Pavillion 7955 with 640 megs of RAM, internal 40 gig, internal 80 gig, and external 120 gig.

The problem seems to be solely the VX2000. Video footage records and plays back totally fine, no fading, no drops, nothing.
Thank God my PD150 works, because I have a wedding to do tomorrow, and will have to use just the video on the VX2000 and not the audio.

As for the third deck, or camera, I have a Sony VX700, which has been cleaned and serviced, and has been trouble free. Tapes from the PD150 play fine, tapes from the VX2000 have the same damn problem.

Again, any ideas, help, prayers, are appreciated!!!!
Brian
www.brianslanger.com

[Andre De Clercq]

I think your vx2000's audio input chain (analog amps, digitizer multiplexer...)shows an erratic defect Because you get both channels affected, I think some supply lines or the multiplexer/inserter part in the audio chain is the most obvious reason for your problem.

[Mike Rehmus]

I would do the following before taking the camera back for repair:

1 It is possible that the 3.5mm stereo microphone socket is at fault. This has been reported before. Perhaps this is not one of the cases but it is worth checking. The only hesitation I have here is that I don't think this would effect sound recorded in VCR mode.

In addition to the obvious 3 points of connection within the socket for ground plus 2 signals, there is a switch that is operated by the presence of a 3.5mm plug. If it has some corrosion on it, it may be erratically opening and closing, thereby indicating to the camera that a microphone has been inserted.

This is probably the most unlikely source of problem but it may be worth your time to repeatedly insert a plug into the socket to see if it is possible to correct the problem.

2. It is worthwhile to press the Camera Reset switch which is found on the camera body. It is under a small hole on the face of the switch plate that is hidden by the LCD screen. I believe a paper clip will enter the hole and operate the switch. You should find a small legend with the words Reset molded near the hole.

A Sony tech told me to Reset my PD-150 whenever I felt it was misbehaving. Must be running Windows 3.1!

I'd guess that there is some electronic fault in the camera.

[Lou Bruno]

This may or may not be the problem.
There is a litte switch on under the rubber flap located by the handle. Make sure that it is not on line or stuck in-between.


ALSO-never mix tapes. Dry plus wet lubricants equal varnish on the heads.

Lou Bruno

Hey everyone, thanks for the ideas. I've not totally proficient in terminology or technology, but isn't there a separate audio head as well as a record head and erase head? It seems there must be some problem with that head.

I'll try the re-set button, but I think that is just for settings (?), and this seems to be more mechanical?

I'll try the in and out on the 3.5 mic jack, but the sound fading is there with the mic built in, as well as external mics, as well as feed from Premiere.

Does anyone know what the general turn around time is if I turn this over to Sony?

[Andre De Clercq]

Video, audio and some extra info are all written and read by the same head(s) which get/output a stream of binary information (zero's and one's).

[Mike Rehmus]

Actually, the reset button does more than just restore default menu settings although it will certainly do that. It is meant to be used when the camera gets its litlle mind twisted. Just like a PC.

The internal switch for the microphone will also affect the internal microphone.

Thanks for all the input. I don't know what happened to the camera to have this audio problem. Now the audio fades in and out on a regular cycle, up and ok for 1 second, then fades completely out for one second, then back on, then out, etc. I had to use it for a wedding, so I have to check that the video part is fine, which I am sure it is. The stills are fine too. Maybe it got damaged in shipping, maybe the Sony authorized guy here indavertently did something to it unbeknownst to him. Damn, wish I knew.

Last question, does anyone have a definitive answer on whether Sony still has a flat rate on fixing cameras? Also, do you know if they totally check out the camera, or just fix the stated problem?

PS, tried the re-set button several times, still audio fades in and out. Also tried plugging a mic plug in and out of the mini mic jack, but nothing. DAMN! Very upsetting to get a camera, and then have it be screwed up, and not know who to blame, or what caused it, of if it is fixable. If the audio is not fixable, I'm gonna flip!
Brian

[Mike Rehmus]

It is certainly fixable.

They do have a flat-rate repair price. Flat-rate is in effect for any of their camcorders for 7 years after manufacture so they told me. Note . . . manufacture, not purchase date.

Sony has products out there like their S-VHS SLV-R1000 tape deck that is still sold new that was last manufactured in 1993! Imaging paying $1100 for a deck and not knowing that the lubricants are 9 years old.

But I digress.

Sony is supposed to clean and adjust everything plus fix the problem and give you a 90 day warranty.

Your other choice (that I know about) is to contact Armatos and see if they will fix it. That should be less expensive.