Found more differences between my 170 and VX21k at DVinfo.net

Glen Elliott · October 4th, 2004, 07:01 AM

After a shoot this weekend I realized yet more differences between my PD-170 and VX2100. Apparently the VX2100 cannot have the iris AND shutter on the screen (editable) at the same time. It's either one or the other. I was trying to change the shutter and for some reason couldn't get the setting to change....thought the button was broken. As soon as I turned off manual iris- bam- I was able to edit the shutter speed. Little did I know it had this limitation. Seems programmed in- like Sony did this on purpose to make it less versitile. Pretty idiotic if you ask me.

So now I know I can't change my gain and iris independantly.....aaaand Shutter and iris independantly either. Jeers Sony! Oh well that's what I get for not shelling out the extra $ for a second 170.

All in all though I'm very happy with the VX2100's video quality as I am the 170's.

Michael Bernstein · October 5th, 2004, 11:19 PM

If you leave the iris in auto, set the shutter speed, and then put the iris in manual mode, you can set both manually.

Unfortunately, you have to pop back into auto-iris to change the shutter speed again. Kind of clunky, eh?

Michael

Glen Elliott · October 5th, 2004, 11:26 PM

Yeah- kinda. Why would they do this- seems like they programmed it to purposely be less versitile as to further distance the 170 from it's 2100 counterpart.

Tom Hardwick · October 6th, 2004, 12:45 AM

Can't say I've found it to be a hindrance myself with my VX2k. Varying the aperture rather than the shutter speeds is generally far the best way to control exposure on movies as it's all to easy to drop below 1/50th and lose resolution or go higher and get 'shutter stutter', and increased CCD smear at the same time.

There have been odd times though when it would have been nice to simply double the shutter speed without having to leave locked aperture first. On some very bright days I've felt that even using both NDs I need to soak more light so that I can open to a wider aperture. It's at times like these when the VX's limitations show and slow.

tom.

Boyd Ostroff · October 6th, 2004, 06:44 AM

This is something which we VX-2000 owners have known about for a long time, but it doesn't seem to get discussed much. I don't find it much of a problem myself, since I almost always shoot at 1/60 sec.

Now the TRV-950 and PDX-10 are similar cousins like the VX-2000 and PD-150. Interestingly, the PDX-10 shutter also behaves like the VX-2000 however. So evidently Sony made a marketing decision to only provide the simultaneous manual control of shutter and aperture on the PD-150 and PD-170.

I hope the new FX-1 points the way to future Sony prosumer cameras. It has physical knobs and buttons for all the adjustments, and calibrated zoom and focus rings as well. Just last night I was shooting a performance and really longed for separate manual controls instead of digging through menus or pushing a button and turning a wheel to select white balance, audio level, iris and shutter. Even though I should know better, once again I messed up and punched the white balance button when I wanted to see the audio levels. Using the same type of buttons so close together for these functions is a disaster.

Glen Elliott · October 6th, 2004, 09:04 AM

I agree- locking the shutter at 60 and adjusting the iris is the best way to achieve exposure. Changing the shutter to achieve exposure can actually create color shift- at least it has to me, minutely.

However during many of my shoots there's times when I do use a higher shutter for effect. Fountains for example. Shooting from behind/through a fountiain spouting water, a higher shutter is required to get the droplet effect I'm looking for. Granted it's not a "huge" deal as I can go and manually disengage the auto iris. I just like the convenience of having it available and editable at any time without having to change settings to access it. Not a big deal per say..... a suprise rather.

Glen Elliott · October 6th, 2004, 09:07 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Even though I should know better, once again I messed up and punched the white balance button when I wanted to see the audio levels. Using the same type of buttons so close together for these functions is a disaster. -->>>

lol...know what you mean. During the blessing/toast at a recent wedding I went to dial down the manual audio control not realizing I had the white balance selected. So instead of the audio lowering I got a flicker effect as I quickly toggled between my manual, indoor, and outdoor white balance settings. UGH- it's going to be a nightmare in post. Thankfully I was shooting w/ 2 cams at the time.

October 4th, 2004, 07:01 AM	#1
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Found more differences between my 170 and VX21k After a shoot this weekend I realized yet more differences between my PD-170 and VX2100. Apparently the VX2100 cannot have the iris AND shutter on the screen (editable) at the same time. It's either one or the other. I was trying to change the shutter and for some reason couldn't get the setting to change....thought the button was broken. As soon as I turned off manual iris- bam- I was able to edit the shutter speed. Little did I know it had this limitation. Seems programmed in- like Sony did this on purpose to make it less versitile. Pretty idiotic if you ask me. So now I know I can't change my gain and iris independantly.....aaaand Shutter and iris independantly either. Jeers Sony! Oh well that's what I get for not shelling out the extra $ for a second 170. All in all though I'm very happy with the VX2100's video quality as I am the 170's.

October 5th, 2004, 11:19 PM	#2
Michael Bernstein Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 114	If you leave the iris in auto, set the shutter speed, and then put the iris in manual mode, you can set both manually. Unfortunately, you have to pop back into auto-iris to change the shutter speed again. Kind of clunky, eh? Michael __________________ Michael Bernstein, actor & film maker. 10 films in 10 weeks: www.amplecatnap.com

October 5th, 2004, 11:26 PM	#3
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Yeah- kinda. Why would they do this- seems like they programmed it to purposely be less versitile as to further distance the 170 from it's 2100 counterpart.

October 6th, 2004, 12:45 AM	#4
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Can't say I've found it to be a hindrance myself with my VX2k. Varying the aperture rather than the shutter speeds is generally far the best way to control exposure on movies as it's all to easy to drop below 1/50th and lose resolution or go higher and get 'shutter stutter', and increased CCD smear at the same time. There have been odd times though when it would have been nice to simply double the shutter speed without having to leave locked aperture first. On some very bright days I've felt that even using both NDs I need to soak more light so that I can open to a wider aperture. It's at times like these when the VX's limitations show and slow. tom.

October 6th, 2004, 06:44 AM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	This is something which we VX-2000 owners have known about for a long time, but it doesn't seem to get discussed much. I don't find it much of a problem myself, since I almost always shoot at 1/60 sec. Now the TRV-950 and PDX-10 are similar cousins like the VX-2000 and PD-150. Interestingly, the PDX-10 shutter also behaves like the VX-2000 however. So evidently Sony made a marketing decision to only provide the simultaneous manual control of shutter and aperture on the PD-150 and PD-170. I hope the new FX-1 points the way to future Sony prosumer cameras. It has physical knobs and buttons for all the adjustments, and calibrated zoom and focus rings as well. Just last night I was shooting a performance and really longed for separate manual controls instead of digging through menus or pushing a button and turning a wheel to select white balance, audio level, iris and shutter. Even though I should know better, once again I messed up and punched the white balance button when I wanted to see the audio levels. Using the same type of buttons so close together for these functions is a disaster.

October 6th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#6
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I agree- locking the shutter at 60 and adjusting the iris is the best way to achieve exposure. Changing the shutter to achieve exposure can actually create color shift- at least it has to me, minutely. However during many of my shoots there's times when I do use a higher shutter for effect. Fountains for example. Shooting from behind/through a fountiain spouting water, a higher shutter is required to get the droplet effect I'm looking for. Granted it's not a "huge" deal as I can go and manually disengage the auto iris. I just like the convenience of having it available and editable at any time without having to change settings to access it. Not a big deal per say..... a suprise rather.

October 6th, 2004, 09:07 AM	#7
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Even though I should know better, once again I messed up and punched the white balance button when I wanted to see the audio levels. Using the same type of buttons so close together for these functions is a disaster. -->>> lol...know what you mean. During the blessing/toast at a recent wedding I went to dial down the manual audio control not realizing I had the white balance selected. So instead of the audio lowering I got a flicker effect as I quickly toggled between my manual, indoor, and outdoor white balance settings. UGH- it's going to be a nightmare in post. Thankfully I was shooting w/ 2 cams at the time.