VX9000 / DSR200 / DSR250 various topics

Dave Largent · October 1st, 2003, 04:30 AM

Jon,
Have you found that the 250 gives you "instant respect and attracts attention"? Actually, I *was* curious if you have noticed
any difference in the way you are regarded? (There was a thread recently on a Video University forum entitled "Big Camera ... Small Camera" and another one awhile back entitled "The Pro Look" where it was debated whether size really does matter, so far as client perception.) Your thoughts on this,
from the point of view of someone who's really been there, would be appreciated.

Jon McLean · October 1st, 2003, 05:22 AM

Hi Dave,

I'm still relatively new at video - have shot around 10 weddings, couple of stage productions etc etc. I would say that the 250 does carry a little more clout than the 150 - the general comment is 'will I be on TV?' which usually translates to a little more cooperation from others when trying to shoot the bride and groom without getting crowded out by the relatives :).

At the end of the day having both cameras allows me more flexability when shooting e.g. being able to shoot for 4+ hours continuously on the 250 without a tape change and better ergonomics versus using the 150 to grab high shots over a crowd, shooting in tight quarters and fitting into a small backpack.

IMHO If a client is paying for a service they are probably expecting a bit more than a guy turning up with a $50 tripod and a $500 handycam.

As an aside I recently shot an interview for a local politician using both the 250 and 150. When I showed them the final tape in front of the party, I used my little TRV-15 handycam as a play deck(plays DVCAM fine) - one of the committee members piped up 'We were expecting a bigger camera??'.

Opps.....;)

Jon

Dave Largent · October 1st, 2003, 06:06 AM

Jon,
If a videographer wanted to use the viewfinder on the 250 with their left eye rather than the right eye, do you think that would work? Is there any provision for adjustment of the viewfinder regarding the eyepiece's distance from the camera?
And are you able to shoot the ceremony with the 250 while it is shoulder mounted or must you use a tripod?

Jon McLean · October 1st, 2003, 07:20 AM

The viewfinder is the DXR-801 which is the same unit fitted to sonys higher end camcorders (DSR-390,570,D35). It has an adjustment that allows the eyepiece to slide left/right 2-3 inchs and forward/back around an inch or so. I just tried it via the left eye and it worked ok. Probably best to have a play first to make sure your happy with the setup.

I usually shoot the processions shoulder mounted then transfer the camera to the tripod for the ceremony. The 150 is set wide as my cutaway/safety cam to cover the moving feet - back of grooms head, minister, random sky shots that occur when I duck and head for the tripod ;). If the ceremony is going to be fairly short (15-20min??) you could probably get away with being on the shoulder preferably without using too much zoom to avoid the shakes. A good tripod with a fluid head will save your arm/back long term and be nice and stable.

Mike Rehmus · October 1st, 2003, 11:03 AM

There is a major difference in respect afforded the camera person between the DSR-PD150 and the DSR-300. I can go almost anyplace I want with the 300 on my shoulder. Add a boom operator and there are very few barriers to entry. Only on tightly controlled events with press passes do I have to have a badge.

Clients, even when they know my work, are impressed when I arrive with the 'big' camera. They appreciate my matching the camera to the job. But when it comes to planned and formal executive head shots, I'd better show up with the 300.

The DSR-300 certainly delivers a better picture in difficult situations (except low light) than the PD150.

Case in point. Last night I shot footage in a rehersal hall that is illuminated by the same crappy overhead lights they use in large discount stores. I had shot some footage with my PD150 several days before in the same location and the same people.

Admittedly I had a softlight on the top of the DSR-300 to fill shadows (this is footage to be used in a television commercial) but it's not strong enough (100 watts input) to overshadow the overhead lamps in any way.

The difference in processing shadows out beyond the reach of the camera-top light was significantly better with the 300.

When conditions are 'normal' the 150 does about as good a job as the 300. Detail and image processing are slightly better in the 300 images.

The one place where the 150 cannot compete, as has already been mentioned, is where the action is fast and the optics need rapid adjustment. Direct (and stepless aperature) control over lens settings is an overwhelming advantage of the 300.

I've reversed my use of the 150 and 300 on some shoots. I used to use the 300 for the locked-down wide shots and carry the 150. If I have to move around or the talent is moving around or the shooting conditions are changing, I now carry the 300 and put the 150 on the tripod because it is too slow to adjust.

Backache at the end of the day is about the same.

Allan Gordon · October 8th, 2003, 09:39 AM

I have just started to use this feature. It does seem to make a difference.

I note in the instructions that it says to Turn Off Steadyshot when filming on a tripod.

If I "forget" to do this will I cause any harm to the camera/footage.

Do others use this feature?

Nathan Gifford · October 8th, 2003, 11:50 AM

It won't harm the machine but it can cause problems in your shots. What happens is that the camera thinks it is still moving when it isn't and adjusts the OIS.

Try panning onto a flag pole in stiff breeze with Steady Shot both on and off. You will likely find that it is very difficult to get the pan to stop where you want with Steady Shot on while on a tripod.

Allan Gordon · October 8th, 2003, 12:24 PM

Thanks for the quick reply :)

Jon McLean · October 9th, 2003, 03:14 AM

Hi Allan,

I use my 250 for shooting weddings and generally leave it on all the time. Turning it on and off means diving into the menu usually at just the wrong moment :(.

Try it either way and see what effect it has. I was quite surprised how much shake it took out especially at max zoom when shooting off the shoulder.

Cheerio

Jon

Allan Gordon · October 9th, 2003, 07:38 AM

Thanks Jon.

Its weddings that I am also filming.

Cheers.

Jun Galinato · October 9th, 2003, 04:28 PM

I always turn on mine except when shooting in a place where there are lots of lights, you will get the flying fireflies...

Allan Gordon · October 10th, 2003, 08:59 AM

I wonder if I am the only user of the 250 that finds its tape loading system to be overly fussy.

Sometimes I can load the tape on the first attempt 3 or 4 times in a row, yet other times its about 3 or 4 attempts.

I normally push down the tape until the machine bites it, then I let go.

However, sometimes it only goes down a small amount and then get ejected by the camera.

I wonder if I am being too gentle? Should I give it a more firm push?

In comparison, the VX9000 was easy to load.

Thanks for any feedback.

Cheers.

Allan Gordon · October 10th, 2003, 09:03 AM

Thanks for the info Jun.

Jun Galinato · October 10th, 2003, 11:32 AM

I have mine for a couple of months now but I never encountered that problem, either with a mini-DV or a DVCAM tapes. Yes I have to push it until the mechanism takes it and let it go but it never ejects. How old is your camcorder? Maybe it just needs cleaning on the tape mechanism. Have it check by a qualified Sony Service Center.

Allan Gordon · October 10th, 2003, 11:56 AM

Hi Jun,

I have had the camera about 6 months. I think it has been "fussy" since I got it. Its strange, as I can load 3 or 4 tapes with no problem, and then the 5th tape requires 2 or 3 attempts. This is weeks apart.

It will go in some way, stop and then come back out. If I reload it again following this it can load perfect.

This is what makes me think its not a fault, possibly a technique issue. Although, I have always found loading a tape to be pretty straigt forward in the past :)

Cheers.

October 1st, 2003, 11:03 AM	#95
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	There is a major difference in respect afforded the camera person between the DSR-PD150 and the DSR-300. I can go almost anyplace I want with the 300 on my shoulder. Add a boom operator and there are very few barriers to entry. Only on tightly controlled events with press passes do I have to have a badge. Clients, even when they know my work, are impressed when I arrive with the 'big' camera. They appreciate my matching the camera to the job. But when it comes to planned and formal executive head shots, I'd better show up with the 300. The DSR-300 certainly delivers a better picture in difficult situations (except low light) than the PD150. Case in point. Last night I shot footage in a rehersal hall that is illuminated by the same crappy overhead lights they use in large discount stores. I had shot some footage with my PD150 several days before in the same location and the same people. Admittedly I had a softlight on the top of the DSR-300 to fill shadows (this is footage to be used in a television commercial) but it's not strong enough (100 watts input) to overshadow the overhead lamps in any way. The difference in processing shadows out beyond the reach of the camera-top light was significantly better with the 300. When conditions are 'normal' the 150 does about as good a job as the 300. Detail and image processing are slightly better in the 300 images. The one place where the 150 cannot compete, as has already been mentioned, is where the action is fast and the optics need rapid adjustment. Direct (and stepless aperature) control over lens settings is an overwhelming advantage of the 300. I've reversed my use of the 150 and 300 on some shoots. I used to use the 300 for the locked-down wide shots and carry the 150. If I have to move around or the talent is moving around or the shooting conditions are changing, I now carry the 300 and put the 150 on the tripod because it is too slow to adjust. Backache at the end of the day is about the same. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 8th, 2003, 09:39 AM	#96
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	Steady Shot On or Off DSR 250 I have just started to use this feature. It does seem to make a difference. I note in the instructions that it says to Turn Off Steadyshot when filming on a tripod. If I "forget" to do this will I cause any harm to the camera/footage. Do others use this feature?

October 8th, 2003, 11:50 AM	#97
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	It won't harm the machine but it can cause problems in your shots. What happens is that the camera thinks it is still moving when it isn't and adjusts the OIS. Try panning onto a flag pole in stiff breeze with Steady Shot both on and off. You will likely find that it is very difficult to get the pan to stop where you want with Steady Shot on while on a tripod. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

October 8th, 2003, 12:24 PM	#98
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	Steadyshot Thanks for the quick reply :)

October 9th, 2003, 07:38 AM	#100
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	Steady Shot Thanks Jon. Its weddings that I am also filming. Cheers.

October 1st, 2003, 04:30 AM	#91
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Jon, Have you found that the 250 gives you "instant respect and attracts attention"? Actually, I was curious if you have noticed any difference in the way you are regarded? (There was a thread recently on a Video University forum entitled "Big Camera ... Small Camera" and another one awhile back entitled "The Pro Look" where it was debated whether size really does matter, so far as client perception.) Your thoughts on this, from the point of view of someone who's really been there, would be appreciated.

October 1st, 2003, 05:22 AM	#92
Jon McLean Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Palmerston North New Zealand Posts: 44	Hi Dave, I'm still relatively new at video - have shot around 10 weddings, couple of stage productions etc etc. I would say that the 250 does carry a little more clout than the 150 - the general comment is 'will I be on TV?' which usually translates to a little more cooperation from others when trying to shoot the bride and groom without getting crowded out by the relatives :). At the end of the day having both cameras allows me more flexability when shooting e.g. being able to shoot for 4+ hours continuously on the 250 without a tape change and better ergonomics versus using the 150 to grab high shots over a crowd, shooting in tight quarters and fitting into a small backpack. IMHO If a client is paying for a service they are probably expecting a bit more than a guy turning up with a $50 tripod and a $500 handycam. As an aside I recently shot an interview for a local politician using both the 250 and 150. When I showed them the final tape in front of the party, I used my little TRV-15 handycam as a play deck(plays DVCAM fine) - one of the committee members piped up 'We were expecting a bigger camera??'. Opps.....;) Jon

October 1st, 2003, 06:06 AM	#93
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Jon, If a videographer wanted to use the viewfinder on the 250 with their left eye rather than the right eye, do you think that would work? Is there any provision for adjustment of the viewfinder regarding the eyepiece's distance from the camera? And are you able to shoot the ceremony with the 250 while it is shoulder mounted or must you use a tripod?

October 1st, 2003, 07:20 AM	#94
Jon McLean Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Palmerston North New Zealand Posts: 44	The viewfinder is the DXR-801 which is the same unit fitted to sonys higher end camcorders (DSR-390,570,D35). It has an adjustment that allows the eyepiece to slide left/right 2-3 inchs and forward/back around an inch or so. I just tried it via the left eye and it worked ok. Probably best to have a play first to make sure your happy with the setup. I usually shoot the processions shoulder mounted then transfer the camera to the tripod for the ceremony. The 150 is set wide as my cutaway/safety cam to cover the moving feet - back of grooms head, minister, random sky shots that occur when I duck and head for the tripod ;). If the ceremony is going to be fairly short (15-20min??) you could probably get away with being on the shoulder preferably without using too much zoom to avoid the shakes. A good tripod with a fluid head will save your arm/back long term and be nice and stable.

October 9th, 2003, 03:14 AM	#99
Jon McLean Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Palmerston North New Zealand Posts: 44	Hi Allan, I use my 250 for shooting weddings and generally leave it on all the time. Turning it on and off means diving into the menu usually at just the wrong moment :(. Try it either way and see what effect it has. I was quite surprised how much shake it took out especially at max zoom when shooting off the shoulder. Cheerio Jon

October 9th, 2003, 04:28 PM	#101
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	I always turn on mine except when shooting in a place where there are lots of lights, you will get the flying fireflies... __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

October 10th, 2003, 08:59 AM	#102
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	DSR 250 Tape Loading Success I wonder if I am the only user of the 250 that finds its tape loading system to be overly fussy. Sometimes I can load the tape on the first attempt 3 or 4 times in a row, yet other times its about 3 or 4 attempts. I normally push down the tape until the machine bites it, then I let go. However, sometimes it only goes down a small amount and then get ejected by the camera. I wonder if I am being too gentle? Should I give it a more firm push? In comparison, the VX9000 was easy to load. Thanks for any feedback. Cheers.

October 10th, 2003, 09:03 AM	#103
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	Steadyshot Thanks for the info Jun.

October 10th, 2003, 11:32 AM	#104
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	I have mine for a couple of months now but I never encountered that problem, either with a mini-DV or a DVCAM tapes. Yes I have to push it until the mechanism takes it and let it go but it never ejects. How old is your camcorder? Maybe it just needs cleaning on the tape mechanism. Have it check by a qualified Sony Service Center. __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

October 10th, 2003, 11:56 AM	#105
Allan Gordon New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	Tape Loading Hi Jun, I have had the camera about 6 months. I think it has been "fussy" since I got it. Its strange, as I can load 3 or 4 tapes with no problem, and then the 5th tape requires 2 or 3 attempts. This is weeks apart. It will go in some way, stop and then come back out. If I reload it again following this it can load perfect. This is what makes me think its not a fault, possibly a technique issue. Although, I have always found loading a tape to be pretty straigt forward in the past :) Cheers.