PD-150 'crackle' on record/playback. at DVinfo.net

Anthony Milic · January 11th, 2004, 09:09 PM

What's this? Anthony's making an entry and referring to his very OWN camera!?
Like..wow man...
OK, I'm finding an intermittent 'crackle' (not a 'hiss') that is heard through headphones while recording, and identically on playback. Disappointing.
I'm running the supplied on board mic. Interestingly, the crackle always sounds the same. Kind of a 'crackle-crackle.. 'pause' crackle' type of thing. ie same pattern
Is it possible that a certain combination of channel settings may cause such a crackle?
It's the kind of noise you'd expect to hear if, say, you were listening to an audio playback on some overused/bad quality headphones and you shook your wiring to cause that little 'crackle' disturbance.
I've tried this with the camera, though found no difference with/without movement.
Obviously my main concern is that my new baby has some kind of physical/electronic defect. :(

Also, during my search on this topic, I've saw this mic referred to as omni-directional. Straight out of the box I found it to be the exact opposite.
The recording 'field/cone' is very tight and very much forward, following the line of direction in which the mic is pointed, ala shotgun.. It's quite dramatic.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Anthony

Boyd Ostroff · January 11th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Congrats on the camera Anthony, sorry you're having trouble. Do you still hear the crackle when all inputs are unplugged? Do you hear it when recording via line input?

Don Bloom · January 11th, 2004, 09:37 PM

1ST-CONGRATS on the new cam.

As for the crackle, how do you have your audio set up and what were you recording, perhaps you were peaking out with the sound and that caused the crackels and popping.

The mic is something that if you like the sound you're getting use it, if not change it. Sounds like you like it so save the money and keep the mic you got.

Don

Mike Rehmus · January 11th, 2004, 09:59 PM

What happens when you copy the video into a computer and listen to the audio there?

Could be overdriving the system with audio levels.

Could be the audio NR setting is on.

Uh, what model do you have?

Anthony Milic · January 12th, 2004, 12:15 AM

Thanks guys, will give those suggestions a whirl and post what I can discover.

re model number; Mike, will check - Can you imagine buying a new cam, then discovering it was one of the dreaded older, 'noise affected' models!?.. eep!

Anthony

David Korb · January 12th, 2004, 08:32 AM

Hello Anthony...Shawn Mielke passed this very handy url down in a different post and i believe you might just find the exact fix for it...

http://www.alanbarker.com/

The site is set up with tables and click on the section called audio...or just read the whole thing...i love the way the guy dispose's of dv myths, very funny

Btw Shawn...thanks man...great site and great read there

Anthony Milic · January 12th, 2004, 07:48 PM

will go there now David. Thanks.

btw, Mike - model no.:10393##. No time to do test other suggestions as of yet.

Anthony Milic · January 12th, 2004, 07:59 PM

Forgot, I'd actually already reveiwed and printed out Alan Parkers' info when Shawn listed it- very helpful. Though at the time of reading, the 'noise floor' info didn't click.
Will continue to test settings in the near future and will hopefully be able to identify cause and limits.

Thanks guys.

Anthony Milic · January 13th, 2004, 06:12 PM

ok, had an hour or so last night to run a few tests..
The kind of interference I'm experiencing is a 'soft crackling'/'sssshhh' - seems consistent but also increases/decrease in intensity.

This interference is present only when the mic is operational.
As soon as I unplug or switch-off the mic through the xlr input, all interference ceases.

NR ON/OFF - no dramatic difference.
AGC ON - lots of interference.
AGC OFF - interference reduces.
AGC at mid level on CH1 & CH2
LCD OPEN/CLOSE - no difference.
AC/BATTERY powered - no difference.

Have tried all xlr switch combinations to see if there's some kind of wiring/electronic crossover - found no change. (other than their intended function)

1. From everything I've read, AGC is supposed to reduce such interference. How is it I'm finding the exact opposite?

2. Another concern; I tried plugging the mic into CH2 and altered xlr set-up appropriately so as to use input 2 as the primary mic source. No matter what I did, I could get no sound through ch2 at all. (just had a thought, perhaps I didn't set the channels as separate in audio set-up. - would that be the key factor in using ch2. this would mean that ch2 is unusable under AGC?! - which seems highly unlikely) There must be a simple explanation. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?

Appreciate any thoughts,

Anthony

David Korb · January 13th, 2004, 06:30 PM

Anthony...im goina set up and record some guitar live tonight..will do some testing on my pdx10...the closest camera i have to yours...if i find or discover anything...will let you know...i would seperate the chanels like you mentioned and test a coupla other mics...or test just one at a time

Boyd Ostroff · January 13th, 2004, 08:16 PM

Only thing you didn't mention Anthony - did you have phantom power (+48v) turned on on both channels?

David Korb · January 14th, 2004, 04:07 PM

Well Anthony...i had no problem finding a crackle issue simular to the one you described and its cause was from agc on the supplied sony mic...after about 2 hours of testing i finally had to turn on the -20 db att and leave the att switch alone on the shure sm58 mic...however, my crackle issue only happened when agc kicked in...had to use agc because of the well pronounced hiss without it
I will list my settings but somehow i doubt it will help you with your constant crackle as you described it

xlr block is set as following
rec ch select...ch1 only
imput level......mic to the external shure sm58
+48.................on
imput 2 sony supplied mic pdx10
.......................mic
+48 on

low cut imput1 off >>>Shure sm58
low cut imput2 on >> sony supplied mic pdx10 mounted on camera

rec mode dvcam
audio mode fs48k
mic nr off
xlr ch1 level auto
xlr ch2 level auto

i find no reason to discuss custom preset but mine was set on
i did have to rearrange mic position to get balanced stero
The agc really caused problems with the sony supplied mic...no problems on ch1 with the shure sm58 mic anywhere

guitar was amplified using 4 jbl 12 inch speakers and 2 12 inch jbl horns all from the late 60's model heath kit solid state 230 watt amplifier

Anthony Milic · January 14th, 2004, 10:12 PM

Boyd, yes +48 ON (and off for that matter, & one on, one off etc.)
Don, I wasn't supporting the mic really, just curios/concerned as to why it seemed to be characteristically shotgun.
Mike, not yet uploaded to PC, she's in pieces as I upgrade.

Nice info David.
Interesting that AGC causes an increase in the interference no?
YES, when I switched to 'MIC ATT' - was immediately rid of interference. now that must signify somthing - Raise any red-flags in anyone's mind?

Any suggestions as to why I can't seem to get any sound when running mic in CH2? very odd. Have switched to both Ch1/2, MIC, and +48 on CH2.
(I've read that a bizarre ch1/ch2 glitch can be rectified by a camera reset. may try that tonight)

Assuming my cam/mic is AOK, ie. not faulty - then this is all very strange. (hopefully it's me that's just temporarily 'knowledge faulty')
I simply don't believe the camera (or mic) is supposed to behave like this straight out of the box and under such 'placid' circumstances. I've even searched and re-searched menus to see if there was some well hidden audio setting that I somehow altered to an extreme to cause this 'sshhhh..crackle..'

So as it stands:

- As soon as mic is in and active, interference begins.
-The only way I can use the supplied mic without interference, is to switch to MIC ATT.
- unable to use ch2 at all.

I'll continue to experiment.

Shawn Mielke · January 15th, 2004, 04:46 AM

Well, do you think you'll have to send it back? We want you to start shooting, with confidence, dammit! :-)

Anthony Milic · January 15th, 2004, 05:21 PM

Was testing again last night - bad news all the way.
Interference. shhhh, crackle n' flop

The other thing that I find even harder to accept is that I can't get any life out of CH2 independantly. Now on this issue I'd prefer to make a fool of myself here than at the store wit hMr. Salesman.
MIC plugged to CH2
REC CH: CH1-CH2
Input: MIC
+48: ON
Now, should I expect to be able to pick up sound through this MIC??? please set me straight.

Suppose will have to return to place of purchase.
I think I've been in denial and hoping for mystical answers here in the forum.

Bummer.

January 11th, 2004, 09:09 PM	#1
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	PD-150 'crackle' on record/playback. What's this? Anthony's making an entry and referring to his very OWN camera!? Like..wow man... OK, I'm finding an intermittent 'crackle' (not a 'hiss') that is heard through headphones while recording, and identically on playback. Disappointing. I'm running the supplied on board mic. Interestingly, the crackle always sounds the same. Kind of a 'crackle-crackle.. 'pause' crackle' type of thing. ie same pattern Is it possible that a certain combination of channel settings may cause such a crackle? It's the kind of noise you'd expect to hear if, say, you were listening to an audio playback on some overused/bad quality headphones and you shook your wiring to cause that little 'crackle' disturbance. I've tried this with the camera, though found no difference with/without movement. Obviously my main concern is that my new baby has some kind of physical/electronic defect. :( Also, during my search on this topic, I've saw this mic referred to as omni-directional. Straight out of the box I found it to be the exact opposite. The recording 'field/cone' is very tight and very much forward, following the line of direction in which the mic is pointed, ala shotgun.. It's quite dramatic. Any advice would be much appreciated. Anthony

January 11th, 2004, 09:59 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	What happens when you copy the video into a computer and listen to the audio there? Could be overdriving the system with audio levels. Could be the audio NR setting is on. Uh, what model do you have? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 12th, 2004, 12:15 AM	#5
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	will try Thanks guys, will give those suggestions a whirl and post what I can discover. re model number; Mike, will check - Can you imagine buying a new cam, then discovering it was one of the dreaded older, 'noise affected' models!?.. eep! Anthony

January 13th, 2004, 06:12 PM	#9
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	findings so far ok, had an hour or so last night to run a few tests.. The kind of interference I'm experiencing is a 'soft crackling'/'sssshhh' - seems consistent but also increases/decrease in intensity. This interference is present only when the mic is operational. As soon as I unplug or switch-off the mic through the xlr input, all interference ceases. NR ON/OFF - no dramatic difference. AGC ON - lots of interference. AGC OFF - interference reduces. AGC at mid level on CH1 & CH2 LCD OPEN/CLOSE - no difference. AC/BATTERY powered - no difference. Have tried all xlr switch combinations to see if there's some kind of wiring/electronic crossover - found no change. (other than their intended function) 1. From everything I've read, AGC is supposed to reduce such interference. How is it I'm finding the exact opposite? 2. Another concern; I tried plugging the mic into CH2 and altered xlr set-up appropriately so as to use input 2 as the primary mic source. No matter what I did, I could get no sound through ch2 at all. (just had a thought, perhaps I didn't set the channels as separate in audio set-up. - would that be the key factor in using ch2. this would mean that ch2 is unusable under AGC?! - which seems highly unlikely) There must be a simple explanation. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong? Appreciate any thoughts, Anthony

January 14th, 2004, 04:07 PM	#12
David Korb Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: n.w. minnesota Posts: 35	Well Anthony...i had no problem finding a crackle issue simular to the one you described and its cause was from agc on the supplied sony mic...after about 2 hours of testing i finally had to turn on the -20 db att and leave the att switch alone on the shure sm58 mic...however, my crackle issue only happened when agc kicked in...had to use agc because of the well pronounced hiss without it I will list my settings but somehow i doubt it will help you with your constant crackle as you described it xlr block is set as following rec ch select...ch1 only imput level......mic to the external shure sm58 +48.................on imput 2 sony supplied mic pdx10 .......................mic +48 on low cut imput1 off >>>Shure sm58 low cut imput2 on >> sony supplied mic pdx10 mounted on camera rec mode dvcam audio mode fs48k mic nr off xlr ch1 level auto xlr ch2 level auto i find no reason to discuss custom preset but mine was set on i did have to rearrange mic position to get balanced stero The agc really caused problems with the sony supplied mic...no problems on ch1 with the shure sm58 mic anywhere guitar was amplified using 4 jbl 12 inch speakers and 2 12 inch jbl horns all from the late 60's model heath kit solid state 230 watt amplifier __________________ If at first you dont succeed...well so much for skydiving

January 11th, 2004, 09:26 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Congrats on the camera Anthony, sorry you're having trouble. Do you still hear the crackle when all inputs are unplugged? Do you hear it when recording via line input?

January 11th, 2004, 09:37 PM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	1ST-CONGRATS on the new cam. As for the crackle, how do you have your audio set up and what were you recording, perhaps you were peaking out with the sound and that caused the crackels and popping. The mic is something that if you like the sound you're getting use it, if not change it. Sounds like you like it so save the money and keep the mic you got. Don

January 12th, 2004, 08:32 AM	#6
David Korb Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: n.w. minnesota Posts: 35	Hello Anthony...Shawn Mielke passed this very handy url down in a different post and i believe you might just find the exact fix for it... http://www.alanbarker.com/ The site is set up with tables and click on the section called audio...or just read the whole thing...i love the way the guy dispose's of dv myths, very funny Btw Shawn...thanks man...great site and great read there

January 12th, 2004, 07:48 PM	#7
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	will go there now David. Thanks. btw, Mike - model no.:10393##. No time to do test other suggestions as of yet.

January 12th, 2004, 07:59 PM	#8
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	Forgot, I'd actually already reveiwed and printed out Alan Parkers' info when Shawn listed it- very helpful. Though at the time of reading, the 'noise floor' info didn't click. Will continue to test settings in the near future and will hopefully be able to identify cause and limits. Thanks guys.

January 13th, 2004, 06:30 PM	#10
David Korb Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: n.w. minnesota Posts: 35	Anthony...im goina set up and record some guitar live tonight..will do some testing on my pdx10...the closest camera i have to yours...if i find or discover anything...will let you know...i would seperate the chanels like you mentioned and test a coupla other mics...or test just one at a time

January 13th, 2004, 08:16 PM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Only thing you didn't mention Anthony - did you have phantom power (+48v) turned on on both channels?

January 14th, 2004, 10:12 PM	#13
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	Boyd, yes +48 ON (and off for that matter, & one on, one off etc.) Don, I wasn't supporting the mic really, just curios/concerned as to why it seemed to be characteristically shotgun. Mike, not yet uploaded to PC, she's in pieces as I upgrade. Nice info David. Interesting that AGC causes an increase in the interference no? YES, when I switched to 'MIC ATT' - was immediately rid of interference. now that must signify somthing - Raise any red-flags in anyone's mind? Any suggestions as to why I can't seem to get any sound when running mic in CH2? very odd. Have switched to both Ch1/2, MIC, and +48 on CH2. (I've read that a bizarre ch1/ch2 glitch can be rectified by a camera reset. may try that tonight) Assuming my cam/mic is AOK, ie. not faulty - then this is all very strange. (hopefully it's me that's just temporarily 'knowledge faulty') I simply don't believe the camera (or mic) is supposed to behave like this straight out of the box and under such 'placid' circumstances. I've even searched and re-searched menus to see if there was some well hidden audio setting that I somehow altered to an extreme to cause this 'sshhhh..crackle..' So as it stands: - As soon as mic is in and active, interference begins. -The only way I can use the supplied mic without interference, is to switch to MIC ATT. - unable to use ch2 at all. I'll continue to experiment.

January 15th, 2004, 04:46 AM	#14
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Well, do you think you'll have to send it back? We want you to start shooting, with confidence, dammit! :-) __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

January 15th, 2004, 05:21 PM	#15
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	Was testing again last night - bad news all the way. Interference. shhhh, crackle n' flop The other thing that I find even harder to accept is that I can't get any life out of CH2 independantly. Now on this issue I'd prefer to make a fool of myself here than at the store wit hMr. Salesman. MIC plugged to CH2 REC CH: CH1-CH2 Input: MIC +48: ON Now, should I expect to be able to pick up sound through this MIC??? please set me straight. Suppose will have to return to place of purchase. I think I've been in denial and hoping for mystical answers here in the forum. Bummer.