PD150 Questions

Ho Chee Woe · May 25th, 2003, 05:28 AM

try this...
http://www.mmjp.or.jp/ippinkan/vx2000vs.htm

Ho Chee Woe · May 25th, 2003, 05:36 AM

or this...
http://www.dvworld.com.tw/product/sony_pd150_vs_vx2000.htm

Yik Kuen · May 27th, 2003, 07:43 PM

Yes, on the same monitor, same location, same light same settings.

Tested becoz that was the very 1st time using DVCAM tapes instead of normal DV tape on PD-150. Curious about the differences, we took some very close look and examinations.

I believe, in the Digital world, zero is zero and one is one. They should be exact. The only explanation to this is could it be that due to the robustness of the media, more 'correct' information is held on every inch as compared to normal DV tapes?

In other words, I believe there are rooms on every inch of the media for error and some corrective information. With DVCAM tapes and its lesser error rate, the extra bits is used to hold more precise information?

I'll post some images for your reference soon.

Alan Christensen · June 6th, 2003, 02:14 AM

Does the tape in DVCAM mode move at the same speed as the tape in DV mode? I always assumed that the DVCAM tape was the same length as a DV tape, and that it moved faster, thereby yielding a shorter playing time. The advantage of this is that the helical scan lines on the tape would be more widely separated. This improves the signal to noise ratio because there is less interference from adjacent scan lines, making it easier to reliably read the tape. (Sort of like LP vs SP mode on a VHS tape). However, given that the signal is digital, the signal to noise ratio is not nearly as important as in analog recording schemes. If the read head can distinguish the 1's and 0's reliably, it doesn't matter that there may be a lot of background noise from adjacent scan lines. Hence a DV recording will be just as good as a DVCAM recording. My suspicion is that the DVCAM format was developed first, before tape and head technlology was able to guarantee reliable read performance with closely spaced scan lines. As the technology improved, the DV format was deemed reliable enough for general purpose use. This is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me. Perhaps someone can tell me if my speculation is indeed the case.

Mike Rehmus · June 6th, 2003, 01:59 PM

I suppose it is possible that the PD150 processes the image differrently for DV and DVCam.

The signal is digital and in the exact same data format. Therefore, all other things being equal (the supplied image) the signal is the same. There is no better error correction, S/N or any other tape-related arcana that will/can change the signal as long as the ones and zeros get recorded and can be retrieved. Or someone is not telling the complete truth about DV and DVCam data formats being equal. Again. Sony has every reason and incentive in the business world to say that DVCam has a better image. They do not make that claim because it is not true.

Look elsewhere for the difference. Perception, image processing in the camera before the tape, or something else.

Jun Galinato · June 10th, 2003, 04:05 PM

I just got my PD150 and tried to shoot using a Sony Premium miniDV tape in DVCAM mode for about 2 minutes then I switched to DV mode. Rewind the tape using my TRV25, I try to play the tape and I was surprised that it can play DVCAM format recorded in my PD150. There is a small glitch in the switching of the two formats. I just save thousand of dollars, planning to buy a DVCAM player, and save wear and tear to my PD150. Seems like the TRV series of Sony miniDV is compatible to play DVCAM format recorded in mini DV tapes. It's not even documented in the manual. My first experience on this camcorder (PD150) Wow!!!!!

Mike Rehmus · June 10th, 2003, 04:38 PM

Yes, almost all Sony DV camcorders will playback DVCam. The VX-1000 is one notable exception.

Jeff J. Smith · June 28th, 2003, 08:23 PM

I am using an AT 4073a (phantom power) with AGC on, wind NR off and the XLR mic switch set to attenuate (the 4073 seems pretty hot)

I would prefer using audio on manual mode instead of auto gain, but most the time I end up messing up the audio when in manual mode.

Anyone care to share their PD150 audio setup?

thanks,

Jeff

Mike Rehmus · June 28th, 2003, 10:37 PM

Pipe the microphone into channel 1, select channel 1 to feed both channels. Place one channel in automatic, the other in manual.

Or set both channels to manual and set one high and one low.

Basem Elsokary · July 7th, 2003, 01:06 PM

Well, I recently purchased a pd150, and had some auto focus issues...

during a wedding reception, with low light conditions, and multi-color dance lights bouncing all about, I experienced the auto-focus having a hard time getting as good a focus as it would in normal conditions. For example, just a close up of someone's face in normal light conditions had excellent focus, whereas in lower light (not dark), it wouldn't necessarily always focus correctly, requiring I switch to manual and focus myself...

Is this normal for this camera?

Frank Granovski · July 7th, 2003, 01:47 PM

In low light the auto sensors of any cam have a difficult time. So this is normal for your cam.

Rick Spilman · July 7th, 2003, 04:17 PM

It is normal for just about any camera. It is less of a problem on my PD150 than my old VX1000.

I find the "push auto" button to be very useful in "run-and-gun" sort of shooting. Keep the focus in manual buit if you need to refocus quickly press the "push auto" button, letting auto focus kick in for a second then dropping it back into manual. Depending on the situation you may still need to adjust the focus a bit but it is generally faster, at least in my experience, than doing it all by adjusting the focus ring.

Tom Hardwick · July 8th, 2003, 05:34 AM

It's worth remembering that the auto-focus mechanism works better when the camera's in wide-angle than in telephoto. This has nothing to do with the greater depth of field at short focal lengths, but all to do with the fact that the VX/PD's lens is a stop faster and therfore lets in twice the light at wide angle. The auto-focus mechanism needs light to make it work, unlike the OIS incidentally.

tom.

Lucas Hall · July 19th, 2003, 05:17 PM

I did the first shoot with a PD150, inside a funeral. Since I had to run outside and inside too often, I put it on auto/Lock (the top position). I have heard that the camera is very impressive with full auto mode, but what I saw in the footage was quite unsatisfied. The footage was too red. I know I'm going to have to fix the color in post, and that I'll lose an amount of footage quality. What might I have done wrong?

Thanks,
Lucas

Stylianos Moschapidakis · July 20th, 2003, 12:23 AM

Lucas, could you please share where you bought your camera from?

Thank you.

June 6th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#80
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I suppose it is possible that the PD150 processes the image differrently for DV and DVCam. The signal is digital and in the exact same data format. Therefore, all other things being equal (the supplied image) the signal is the same. There is no better error correction, S/N or any other tape-related arcana that will/can change the signal as long as the ones and zeros get recorded and can be retrieved. Or someone is not telling the complete truth about DV and DVCam data formats being equal. Again. Sony has every reason and incentive in the business world to say that DVCam has a better image. They do not make that claim because it is not true. Look elsewhere for the difference. Perception, image processing in the camera before the tape, or something else. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

June 10th, 2003, 04:05 PM	#81
Jun Galinato Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 231	Cheap DVCAM Player for PD150 I just got my PD150 and tried to shoot using a Sony Premium miniDV tape in DVCAM mode for about 2 minutes then I switched to DV mode. Rewind the tape using my TRV25, I try to play the tape and I was surprised that it can play DVCAM format recorded in my PD150. There is a small glitch in the switching of the two formats. I just save thousand of dollars, planning to buy a DVCAM player, and save wear and tear to my PD150. Seems like the TRV series of Sony miniDV is compatible to play DVCAM format recorded in mini DV tapes. It's not even documented in the manual. My first experience on this camcorder (PD150) Wow!!!!! __________________ Sony Z7U, Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 24-105 F4L, Canon 70-200 F2.8L, Canon 580 EXII, Zoom H2.

June 10th, 2003, 04:38 PM	#82
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Yes, almost all Sony DV camcorders will playback DVCam. The VX-1000 is one notable exception. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

June 28th, 2003, 08:23 PM	#83
Jeff J. Smith New Boot Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7	my PD150 mic I am using an AT 4073a (phantom power) with AGC on, wind NR off and the XLR mic switch set to attenuate (the 4073 seems pretty hot) I would prefer using audio on manual mode instead of auto gain, but most the time I end up messing up the audio when in manual mode. Anyone care to share their PD150 audio setup? thanks, Jeff

June 28th, 2003, 10:37 PM	#84
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Pipe the microphone into channel 1, select channel 1 to feed both channels. Place one channel in automatic, the other in manual. Or set both channels to manual and set one high and one low. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

May 25th, 2003, 05:28 AM	#76
Ho Chee Woe New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 12	try this... http://www.mmjp.or.jp/ippinkan/vx2000vs.htm

May 25th, 2003, 05:36 AM	#77
Ho Chee Woe New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 12	or this... http://www.dvworld.com.tw/product/sony_pd150_vs_vx2000.htm

May 27th, 2003, 07:43 PM	#78
Yik Kuen Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Johor Bahru, Malaysia Posts: 135	Yes, on the same monitor, same location, same light same settings. Tested becoz that was the very 1st time using DVCAM tapes instead of normal DV tape on PD-150. Curious about the differences, we took some very close look and examinations. I believe, in the Digital world, zero is zero and one is one. They should be exact. The only explanation to this is could it be that due to the robustness of the media, more 'correct' information is held on every inch as compared to normal DV tapes? In other words, I believe there are rooms on every inch of the media for error and some corrective information. With DVCAM tapes and its lesser error rate, the extra bits is used to hold more precise information? I'll post some images for your reference soon.

June 6th, 2003, 02:14 AM	#79
Alan Christensen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: California Posts: 139	Does the tape in DVCAM mode move at the same speed as the tape in DV mode? I always assumed that the DVCAM tape was the same length as a DV tape, and that it moved faster, thereby yielding a shorter playing time. The advantage of this is that the helical scan lines on the tape would be more widely separated. This improves the signal to noise ratio because there is less interference from adjacent scan lines, making it easier to reliably read the tape. (Sort of like LP vs SP mode on a VHS tape). However, given that the signal is digital, the signal to noise ratio is not nearly as important as in analog recording schemes. If the read head can distinguish the 1's and 0's reliably, it doesn't matter that there may be a lot of background noise from adjacent scan lines. Hence a DV recording will be just as good as a DVCAM recording. My suspicion is that the DVCAM format was developed first, before tape and head technlology was able to guarantee reliable read performance with closely spaced scan lines. As the technology improved, the DV format was deemed reliable enough for general purpose use. This is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me. Perhaps someone can tell me if my speculation is indeed the case.

July 7th, 2003, 01:06 PM	#85
Basem Elsokary Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 33	Auto Focus Problems with PD150 in low light??? Well, I recently purchased a pd150, and had some auto focus issues... during a wedding reception, with low light conditions, and multi-color dance lights bouncing all about, I experienced the auto-focus having a hard time getting as good a focus as it would in normal conditions. For example, just a close up of someone's face in normal light conditions had excellent focus, whereas in lower light (not dark), it wouldn't necessarily always focus correctly, requiring I switch to manual and focus myself... Is this normal for this camera?

July 7th, 2003, 01:47 PM	#86
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	In low light the auto sensors of any cam have a difficult time. So this is normal for your cam.

July 7th, 2003, 04:17 PM	#87
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	It is normal for just about any camera. It is less of a problem on my PD150 than my old VX1000. I find the "push auto" button to be very useful in "run-and-gun" sort of shooting. Keep the focus in manual buit if you need to refocus quickly press the "push auto" button, letting auto focus kick in for a second then dropping it back into manual. Depending on the situation you may still need to adjust the focus a bit but it is generally faster, at least in my experience, than doing it all by adjusting the focus ring.

July 8th, 2003, 05:34 AM	#88
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	It's worth remembering that the auto-focus mechanism works better when the camera's in wide-angle than in telephoto. This has nothing to do with the greater depth of field at short focal lengths, but all to do with the fact that the VX/PD's lens is a stop faster and therfore lets in twice the light at wide angle. The auto-focus mechanism needs light to make it work, unlike the OIS incidentally. tom.

July 19th, 2003, 05:17 PM	#89
Lucas Hall Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 45	PD150 - footage is too red on auto I did the first shoot with a PD150, inside a funeral. Since I had to run outside and inside too often, I put it on auto/Lock (the top position). I have heard that the camera is very impressive with full auto mode, but what I saw in the footage was quite unsatisfied. The footage was too red. I know I'm going to have to fix the color in post, and that I'll lose an amount of footage quality. What might I have done wrong? Thanks, Lucas

July 20th, 2003, 12:23 AM	#90
Stylianos Moschapidakis Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA/Crete, Greece Posts: 189	Lucas, could you please share where you bought your camera from? Thank you. __________________ Stelios G.M.