Sony Europe Announces PD170P

[Mike Rehmus]

Please keep comments out of the personal zone.

[Boyd Ostroff]

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : bet you guys feel like morons now. -->>>

Not really, just disappointed that Sony came up with such a lackluster "upgrade" to the PD-150 after all this time. I wanted it to be a hoax....

And then there was the part about "17p" and "weirdest looking images you can imagine".... Actually I was pretty excited about all that, cause I can imagine some pretty WEIRD images! ;-)

Hey, I'm sure these new features will enhance the PD-150, and were probably developed in response to user feedback. But there certainly isn't anything there to make me trade in my VX-2000 or PDX-10. But if it had real 16:9 then I might have actually considered it. But maybe Sony is worried about cannibalizing their higher end gear by making the PD line too good.

Just curious, is there anyone out there who finds these new features exciting enough to get rid of their PD-150 and buy a PD-170?

[Mike Rehmus]

Well, if they took out half the candles at the reception, maybe.

Otherwise, this looks like a marketing-driven product upgrade to face the Panasonics. I'm surprised that Sony felt the impact. But the DVX-100 apparently has the low light performance of the 150 and a wider lens.

This will allow the 150/2100 to match the DSR-390 in low light situations. Maybe that's it?

Maybe this is what they mean by the statement, 'seamless upgrade?'

[Michael Struthers]

No 16x9 is disappointing. but sony has another cannon in the pipeline...

Of course, it's probably a hoax too.

Only the pdx10 and the panny gs100 currently with 16x9, and I'd take the panny on cost. pdx looks better though.

[Gareth Mattison]

I'm not impressed by the overhaul of the PD150 but, I guess, if it ain't broke don't fix it (just tart it up a little...). I hoped it would have a wider angle lens built in, true 16:9, a better quality mic and state of the art film-look capability. However, I love my PD150 (not in the biblical sense I may add) and would have felt obliged, in a geekish way, to upgrade if they'd come up with something truly new and exciting. My day job is in marketing and I'm at a loss to explain the way Sony have launched this cam - presuming they were the source of the 17p/low grade/weird nonsense that's been floating around. Who, apart from enthusiasts, would take notice of that? In the PD150 Sony have a fantastic product and I'm sure the subtle changes they've made improve it. But I feel no need to race out and exchange my PD150for a PD170, and that is surely a missed opportunity on their behalf. All I can think is that maybe this is the equivalent of car manufacturers releasing a "special edition" - metallic paint, alloy wheels and cd player as standard - of a model about to be replaced in 6 months. I do fancy getting hold of that new lens hood for my WA though...

[Bryan Beasleigh]

If the PD150/VX2k is so inferior why didn't we all sell our gear and buy a panny. The answer is of course, that they're still good cameras. The old and the new incarnations are still a rock solid workhorse. If I was buying new, I think i'd stay with sony. I just don't need what the panny has to offer.

Some people are in love with specs and perceived superiority. Some , never actually do anything with their camera, except measure against what someone else has or says.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Sure Bryan, we all know how good Sony products are. And I understand that they will only build stuff that they can sell at a profit; Sony isn't my mommy, it's just a company. We owners of the current models should actually be very happy that the resale value on our equipment will remain high since the new models have changed so little.

But I don't see why you fail to understand why people are disappointed with this minor upgrade. The PD-150's successor has been eagerly anticipated for quite some time. True, many people had ridiculous expectations, but the PD-170 really doesn't break any new ground. And the marketing is pretty amusing when they list "advantages" like a new color scheme, different lens hood and an i.Link strap.

It is still a solid camera I'm sure, but it has to be evaluated in comparison to the rest of the field in 2003 now. It's starting to look a little dated IMO. I have a whole house full of Sony products, 2 TV's, a 16:9 LCD, two camcorders, a CD player, cassette deck, tuner, speakers, etc. But if I was buying a new camcorder TODAY, yes I would at least consider the panny.

In the meantime, I certainly wouldn't consider replacing my VX-2000 with a PD-170 or VX-2100, there just aren't enough new features for that to make sense. But if they had included even a few of the hoped-for features then I just might have considered an upgrade.

It isn't the end of the world, just a let down. And since they aren't even going to be available until December that would imply we shouldn't expect further upgrades anytime soon. But it probably shouldn't surprise us that Sony is being conservative, especially when you look at their stock which has fallen around 20% since September 2002...

[Bryan Beasleigh]

"But I don't see why you fail to understand why people are disappointed with this minor upgrade. "

I don't fail to see anything. I can see where some may be let down. The fact is, that i'm not let down, so that's all I care about.

A lot of the lip service is from non sony owners or from people that would never use the features they crave. I'm still trying to get the most out of my VX2K.

Many of the people are waiting for a camera that will give the film look without any skill requirement. they want a camera that will give a perfect picture and sound without having to build a lighting or audio kit. Or so it would seem.

I've spent a fair chunk of change lately but not on a camera. I've added to my lighting kit and bought a few camera and equipment supports,even some reflectors. I've also gone absolutely, stark raving banana crackers on audio gear. I've bought the very best that I can afford so that I may enjoy using it with many cameras to come. Excellant audio, is part of the equation.

I've even built a new puter and bought vegas4 with the DVD authoring.

My reasoning is that what I want to do and the level that I aspire to requires a fully rounded kit, not just the lastest camera.

I've looked at the DVX100 and while it's nice, I'm happy with what i have and I still haven't used the VX2K to it's full potential.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Your points about audio and lighting are well taken. And I agree the VX-2000 was, is, and shall remain a good camera. And indeed there are those people who just constantly chase the next big thing without ever mastering the basics. I've also been investing in other equipment like tripods, lenses, computers, hard drives and software.

However there are people who actually need and use some of the new features. I need good 16:9 for the best image on a big screen with digital projection. Progressive is also desirable for what I'm doing, but this can be done in post up to a point. So I'm using a PDX-10 for all this, but when I got it I really would have preferred something more like a PD-150 with a larger form factor, bigger CCD's and better low light capabilities. But since I already have the VX-2000 and PDX-10, I'm not going to rush out and buy a new camera either.

So, like you, I'm not personally "let down", but unlike you I do care about what defines the current state of the art in prosumer cameras. And IMO Sony just fell behind in this horse race. And there's still a huge hole in their product line when it comes to 16:9 capability between the $2,000 PDX-10 and the $18,000 DSR-570.

[Bryan Beasleigh]

Boyd
I respect your position on ths issue and also your excellent judgement.

I agree that it would be nice to have more of a choice and I think we will, given some time.

[Mark Goodsell]

Boyd,

This whole Sony "new cam idea", to me was a myth created on these boards by people anticipating Sony's next move to top Panasonic. Also, I think this is one of those rare times when a new technology DVDs and widescreen (16:9)are ahead of other segments of the industry. People are disappointed on this release thinking Sony didn't come out with any major updgades. Well, this is not a new cam, only a modification to an existing cam. I'm sure when the new model does come out, we'll see 16:9 and some of the other upgrades we're looking for.

[Gene Fong]

Here's the link:

http://www.sonybiz.net/^/templates/s...jsp&OID=118052

Gene

[Mike Rehmus]

I'm merging this with an existing thread. We don't need many copies about the same item.

[Mike Rehmus]

Boyd, I just found out how merging threads work. I should have reversed the action to keep your original title.

Sorry.

[Shawn Mielke]

To be sold at the pd150 price....Is significant, no?