2100 and PD150 at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 09:39 AM

My PD150 shoots a much warmer image than my 2100, even white balanced. The colors are richer, it's a much nicer image. The 2100 is cool and perfect, very normal for a 2100.

How can this be?

I actually have trouble matching the footage from these cams, when it should be identical, I thought.

Chris Knight · November 4th, 2007, 09:43 AM

Have you checked your custom preset settings for WB Shift and Saturation?

Tom Hardwick · November 4th, 2007, 10:00 AM

While you're there, check that all the menu settings are the same. No little 'CP' on one of the v'finders?

The 2100 does have a lower light spec than the PD150 (1 lux as against 2), but I've not heard that this causes the video footage to look any different.

tom.

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 11:02 AM

Scary I know, not familiar with presets...looked through menu, can't find them. No CP on vfinder.

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 11:12 AM

If by presets you mean gain, shutter speed, they are same, AE shift is at 0

Chris Barcellos · November 4th, 2007, 12:00 PM

Jeff:

There is a small button at back of handle. Press to access custom presets menu.

This sounds like a white balance issue, so check out where the whitebalance shift is set on each camera in the custom preset.. Is it possible those are set different ?

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Ok, gotcha...the presets are off...not being used... We set our white balances to be the same, whether it be a preset (outdoor, indoor) or we manually set them on the same object from the same spot.

Sorry, didn't read your post carefully, the whitebalance shift setting in the preset menu shouldn't be pertinent if the presets are off, correct?

I did check settings on both camera, they are both at the default settings, identical and off.

Chris Barcellos · November 4th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Jeff: Out of curriosity, when you do a manual white balance, can you get them close ? I think you said no above. But I just wanted to be clear. You put a white sheet of paper in front of each in the same lighting condition, etc....and to the white balance...

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 12:54 PM

Yes, when we manual white balance it is the closest, but still different.

Chris Barcellos · November 4th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Mystery.... wow, there shouldn't be that much difference.... I assume you don't have any glass (filters,etc,) in front...., but as you say, there was a step up in perfromance lightwise between the two...just had heard anyone complaining about that.

Don Bloom · November 4th, 2007, 03:24 PM

I'm curious. When you say the WB is different, is it different in your NLE OR are you looking at what you're getting in the LCD of the cameras?

I only ask because when I was shooting a 150/150 combo they were never EXACTLY the same. Nor were they when I was shooting a 150/250 combo and frankly not even the 150/170 are 100% the same. Granted they are or were all so close as to not really make that big a difference but in the LCDs of any of them the difference looked hugh. In NLE against a waveform or vectorscope they were pretty much right there.

Don

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2007, 08:33 PM

I'm back. No Don, looks dramatically warmer on the PD150 VF, and in post. And believe me, I know they should be the same or close. I bought the PD150 to go with the 2100.

Now on occasion they will match pretty well, but not often. It's very frustrating.

Tom Hardwick · November 5th, 2007, 01:27 AM

'Dramatically warmer' suggests that one of the cameras might be actually faulty Jeff. Does one look right and the other off?

Jeff Harper · November 5th, 2007, 02:17 AM

Well, both cameras look great, just different. I have gotten them to match, but only in real neutral situations. What I mean by that is if the venue is full of color, such as a Greek Orthodox Church, they will not match, period. I actually believe what you say is the problem. The PD150 might be faulty.

Maybe I could use the presets, which I have never used, to do color correction. I suppose I would start with the White balance shift, do you agree? To cool the excessive warmth of the image, would you go left or right on the white balance shift toggle?

Don Bloom · November 5th, 2007, 07:02 AM

set both cameras side by side aimed and focused on a gray card or white card your choice. Make sure the lighting is the same of course.
Forget the LCDs and plug into a production monitor preferrably one for each camera and calibrated the same. If not that then TVs that are set and look the same. Use the color bars to set them. NOW you can adjust the CPs on the cameras to close the gap. Remember though that they may never be exactly the same. Perhaps the chips in the 150 are losing their ompf because of age or someother type of goofy thing. Thing is you need to calibrate them together not using the LCD (they lie about the color anyway). Waveform or Vectorscope would be best.
Don

November 4th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	2100 and PD150 My PD150 shoots a much warmer image than my 2100, even white balanced. The colors are richer, it's a much nicer image. The 2100 is cool and perfect, very normal for a 2100. How can this be? I actually have trouble matching the footage from these cams, when it should be identical, I thought.

November 4th, 2007, 09:43 AM	#2
Chris Knight Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyde Park, New York Posts: 53	Have you checked your custom preset settings for WB Shift and Saturation? __________________ Chris Knight Frame of Mind Productions http://www.fmpfilms.com

November 4th, 2007, 12:00 PM	#6
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Jeff: There is a small button at back of handle. Press to access custom presets menu. This sounds like a white balance issue, so check out where the whitebalance shift is set on each camera in the custom preset.. Is it possible those are set different ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 4th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Jeff: Out of curriosity, when you do a manual white balance, can you get them close ? I think you said no above. But I just wanted to be clear. You put a white sheet of paper in front of each in the same lighting condition, etc....and to the white balance... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 4th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Mystery.... wow, there shouldn't be that much difference.... I assume you don't have any glass (filters,etc,) in front...., but as you say, there was a step up in perfromance lightwise between the two...just had heard anyone complaining about that. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 4th, 2007, 10:00 AM	#3
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	While you're there, check that all the menu settings are the same. No little 'CP' on one of the v'finders? The 2100 does have a lower light spec than the PD150 (1 lux as against 2), but I've not heard that this causes the video footage to look any different. tom.

November 4th, 2007, 11:02 AM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Scary I know, not familiar with presets...looked through menu, can't find them. No CP on vfinder.

November 4th, 2007, 11:12 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	If by presets you mean gain, shutter speed, they are same, AE shift is at 0

November 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ok, gotcha...the presets are off...not being used... We set our white balances to be the same, whether it be a preset (outdoor, indoor) or we manually set them on the same object from the same spot. Sorry, didn't read your post carefully, the whitebalance shift setting in the preset menu shouldn't be pertinent if the presets are off, correct? I did check settings on both camera, they are both at the default settings, identical and off.

November 4th, 2007, 12:54 PM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Yes, when we manual white balance it is the closest, but still different.

November 4th, 2007, 03:24 PM	#11
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I'm curious. When you say the WB is different, is it different in your NLE OR are you looking at what you're getting in the LCD of the cameras? I only ask because when I was shooting a 150/150 combo they were never EXACTLY the same. Nor were they when I was shooting a 150/250 combo and frankly not even the 150/170 are 100% the same. Granted they are or were all so close as to not really make that big a difference but in the LCDs of any of them the difference looked hugh. In NLE against a waveform or vectorscope they were pretty much right there. Don

November 4th, 2007, 08:33 PM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I'm back. No Don, looks dramatically warmer on the PD150 VF, and in post. And believe me, I know they should be the same or close. I bought the PD150 to go with the 2100. Now on occasion they will match pretty well, but not often. It's very frustrating.

November 5th, 2007, 01:27 AM	#13
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	'Dramatically warmer' suggests that one of the cameras might be actually faulty Jeff. Does one look right and the other off?

November 5th, 2007, 02:17 AM	#14
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Well, both cameras look great, just different. I have gotten them to match, but only in real neutral situations. What I mean by that is if the venue is full of color, such as a Greek Orthodox Church, they will not match, period. I actually believe what you say is the problem. The PD150 might be faulty. Maybe I could use the presets, which I have never used, to do color correction. I suppose I would start with the White balance shift, do you agree? To cool the excessive warmth of the image, would you go left or right on the white balance shift toggle?

November 5th, 2007, 07:02 AM	#15
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	set both cameras side by side aimed and focused on a gray card or white card your choice. Make sure the lighting is the same of course. Forget the LCDs and plug into a production monitor preferrably one for each camera and calibrated the same. If not that then TVs that are set and look the same. Use the color bars to set them. NOW you can adjust the CPs on the cameras to close the gap. Remember though that they may never be exactly the same. Perhaps the chips in the 150 are losing their ompf because of age or someother type of goofy thing. Thing is you need to calibrate them together not using the LCD (they lie about the color anyway). Waveform or Vectorscope would be best. Don