Progressive Scan VX2000 at DVinfo.net

Dennis Hull · May 28th, 2003, 08:19 PM

I have done search on "frame mode" and "progressive scan", but did not see my situation. I will do more experimenting on my own, but to steer me in right direction would appreciate comments. I understand theory of progressive scan and why with VX2000 at 15 fps (NTSC) it is best used (from other posts) as basically a motor drive for still photos. However, it does give an interesting look to slow moving subjects (walk in garden for example). But, when I view on consumer level tv not equipped for progressive scan it looks like I am viewing pictures through a swarm of gnats (best way I can describe artifacts). I have not yet tried on computer monitor. Are the "gnats" a normal situation or are there some other settings, etc I should be using to get rid of "gnats" in addition to just selecting progressive scan and leaving rest of camera on full auto? Or is this just due to most tv's just able to best display interlaced material??

Tom Hardwick · May 29th, 2003, 01:42 PM

Strange description Dennis. Swarm of gnats? Were you shooting in the gloom and had +18dB of gain dialled in? Is it grain you're seeing?

I've shot lots in POS mode and all I see is jerky footage from which I can easily extract frames for printing or web sending. No gnats, flies or wasps. Unless I'm filming them of course :-)

tom.

Frank Granovski · May 29th, 2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

However, it does give an interesting look to slow moving subjects (walk in garden for example)

15fps progressive scan is not meant for shooting video, but to capture frame grabs. Correct me if I'm wrong, Tom?

Charles French · May 29th, 2003, 02:06 PM

I'm glad this came up. On usin progressive scan to capture stills, do you just turn on PS and adjust exposure and run in camera mode. Do you actually take pictures while doing this or capyure frames on pc?

tks Charles "Confused" French

Charles French · May 29th, 2003, 02:33 PM

Part2- I'm wanting to film some of my sons ball game this afternoon. Is there a way of having the best of both worlds. As in filming game and getting some footage for stills. Should one ever use the sports function while filming or is this not usable in manuel settings.

ty, Charles "Jes Tryin To Learn"

Tom Hardwick · May 29th, 2003, 02:45 PM

Correct Frank. The 15fps mode is almost unuseable as a movie mode but its beauty lies in being able to set a very high shutter speed and film in real time, gathering stereo sound as you go.

Yes Charles. You go into the menu and select prog Scan and then set a high shutter speed, dial out the ND filtration and shoot as normal. The viewfinder will be jerky and so will the footage, but you'll have literally thousands of sharp no-movemnent frames to choose from.

I dump the footage to the time-line and scrub that. Export bitmaps to Photoshop and levels tweak them, unsharp mask and you're done.

As regards filming sports Chuck, your best bet is to use the "sports mode" under the AE button. Go to the golf swing and shoot in this mode. It's a great compromise in that the movie footage will be perfectly watchable but slightly stacatto, but the individual frames will be shot at something like 1/350th sec (depending on the light available). This will make good prints.

tom.

Dennis Hull · May 29th, 2003, 07:21 PM

Tom, I agree"SOG" (swarm of gnats) is a strange description. I expect the jerkiness due to 15 fps, but basically the "look" of picture was noticeably different from same scenes shot with normal (interlace) setting. It was not grainy like you get with low light high db situation ( my shooting done in daylight, rainy overcast day). Possibly excessive "sharpness" versus normal video is a better description. When you look at things you shoot with progressive scan (and Frank I agree it is not intended for video--my reference to "motor drive stills" in orginal note) does picture look different--aside from jerkiness--compared to "normal" video? This weekend (day job a bit hectic at moment) I will capture to computer and see what stills look like on computer monitor and printed out as photos. Thanks for input.

Mike Murray · May 31st, 2003, 04:06 PM

I find the 15fps VERY useful. Anything I plan to speed up and play at very high speed I ALWAYS use progressive. I just filmed a scene the other day where we were driving down the highway. And sped it up 1000%! Looks very cool, and CRYSTAL clear as compared to interlaced.

Tom Hardwick · May 31st, 2003, 10:54 PM

Interesting Mike. I've just done the same thing by speeding up a chair-lift decent down an Austrian mountain. I finally set a speed of 3000x and although the figure sounds surprisingly high it takes the 20 minute real-time ride to maybe 60mph. Looks fine, but a bit worrying (intended) as we reach base camp.

But I must admit it never crossed my mind to use progressive scan and I thank you for the suggestion. Next time I'll give it a go.

tom.

Mike Murray · May 31st, 2003, 11:18 PM

Yep. A lot of people dont think about it. But 15fps doesnt really matter when you speed it up. You're dropping to something like 300 a second anyway and the software has to de-interlace (Premeire for example) the frames anyway. So the outcome is superb even if your going to make it back into NTSC video.

Boyd Ostroff · June 1st, 2003, 07:48 AM

That is a great idea Mike. I've been doing lots of time lapse stuff which I've also been speeding up 200 to 3000%. Will have to give it a try.... thanks!

May 28th, 2003, 08:19 PM	#1
Dennis Hull Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN USA Posts: 151	Progressive Scan VX2000 I have done search on "frame mode" and "progressive scan", but did not see my situation. I will do more experimenting on my own, but to steer me in right direction would appreciate comments. I understand theory of progressive scan and why with VX2000 at 15 fps (NTSC) it is best used (from other posts) as basically a motor drive for still photos. However, it does give an interesting look to slow moving subjects (walk in garden for example). But, when I view on consumer level tv not equipped for progressive scan it looks like I am viewing pictures through a swarm of gnats (best way I can describe artifacts). I have not yet tried on computer monitor. Are the "gnats" a normal situation or are there some other settings, etc I should be using to get rid of "gnats" in addition to just selecting progressive scan and leaving rest of camera on full auto? Or is this just due to most tv's just able to best display interlaced material??

May 29th, 2003, 07:21 PM	#7
Dennis Hull Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St. Paul, MN USA Posts: 151	Swarm of Gnats Tom, I agree"SOG" (swarm of gnats) is a strange description. I expect the jerkiness due to 15 fps, but basically the "look" of picture was noticeably different from same scenes shot with normal (interlace) setting. It was not grainy like you get with low light high db situation ( my shooting done in daylight, rainy overcast day). Possibly excessive "sharpness" versus normal video is a better description. When you look at things you shoot with progressive scan (and Frank I agree it is not intended for video--my reference to "motor drive stills" in orginal note) does picture look different--aside from jerkiness--compared to "normal" video? This weekend (day job a bit hectic at moment) I will capture to computer and see what stills look like on computer monitor and printed out as photos. Thanks for input.

May 31st, 2003, 04:06 PM	#8
Mike Murray New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kennedale, TX Posts: 13	I find the 15fps VERY useful. Anything I plan to speed up and play at very high speed I ALWAYS use progressive. I just filmed a scene the other day where we were driving down the highway. And sped it up 1000%! Looks very cool, and CRYSTAL clear as compared to interlaced. __________________ - Mike M. Sony DSR-PD150

May 31st, 2003, 11:18 PM	#10
Mike Murray New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kennedale, TX Posts: 13	Yep. A lot of people dont think about it. But 15fps doesnt really matter when you speed it up. You're dropping to something like 300 a second anyway and the software has to de-interlace (Premeire for example) the frames anyway. So the outcome is superb even if your going to make it back into NTSC video. __________________ - Mike M. Sony DSR-PD150

May 29th, 2003, 01:42 PM	#2
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Strange description Dennis. Swarm of gnats? Were you shooting in the gloom and had +18dB of gain dialled in? Is it grain you're seeing? I've shot lots in POS mode and all I see is jerky footage from which I can easily extract frames for printing or web sending. No gnats, flies or wasps. Unless I'm filming them of course :-) tom.

May 29th, 2003, 02:06 PM	#4
Charles French Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: grenada,ms Posts: 78	I'm glad this came up. On usin progressive scan to capture stills, do you just turn on PS and adjust exposure and run in camera mode. Do you actually take pictures while doing this or capyure frames on pc? tks Charles "Confused" French

May 29th, 2003, 02:33 PM	#5
Charles French Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: grenada,ms Posts: 78	Part2- I'm wanting to film some of my sons ball game this afternoon. Is there a way of having the best of both worlds. As in filming game and getting some footage for stills. Should one ever use the sports function while filming or is this not usable in manuel settings. ty, Charles "Jes Tryin To Learn"

May 29th, 2003, 02:45 PM	#6
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Correct Frank. The 15fps mode is almost unuseable as a movie mode but its beauty lies in being able to set a very high shutter speed and film in real time, gathering stereo sound as you go. Yes Charles. You go into the menu and select prog Scan and then set a high shutter speed, dial out the ND filtration and shoot as normal. The viewfinder will be jerky and so will the footage, but you'll have literally thousands of sharp no-movemnent frames to choose from. I dump the footage to the time-line and scrub that. Export bitmaps to Photoshop and levels tweak them, unsharp mask and you're done. As regards filming sports Chuck, your best bet is to use the "sports mode" under the AE button. Go to the golf swing and shoot in this mode. It's a great compromise in that the movie footage will be perfectly watchable but slightly stacatto, but the individual frames will be shot at something like 1/350th sec (depending on the light available). This will make good prints. tom.

May 31st, 2003, 10:54 PM	#9
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Interesting Mike. I've just done the same thing by speeding up a chair-lift decent down an Austrian mountain. I finally set a speed of 3000x and although the figure sounds surprisingly high it takes the 20 minute real-time ride to maybe 60mph. Looks fine, but a bit worrying (intended) as we reach base camp. But I must admit it never crossed my mind to use progressive scan and I thank you for the suggestion. Next time I'll give it a go. tom.

June 1st, 2003, 07:48 AM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	That is a great idea Mike. I've been doing lots of time lapse stuff which I've also been speeding up 200 to 3000%. Will have to give it a try.... thanks!