DSR-PDX10 vs DSR-PD150

Brian Pink · January 30th, 2003, 06:35 PM

e-gene is there somewhere near you that you can rent the cameras at? i was looking hard at the Canon's, but ended up getting a PD150 after renting them all and trying them out. i've been very happy with the PD150, the lowlight performance is almost unbelievable.

E-Gene Soh · January 31st, 2003, 03:55 AM

No, unfortunately there aren't many places here that I can rent cameras at a reasonable price for. A friend of mine actually has both the VX2K and the PD150, so I've played with them before and I do like them both. As for the PDX10, I've not gotten a chance to try it out and that's the one which I'm hoping to get some help from.

Rhett Allen · January 31st, 2003, 12:08 PM

Why don't you add your location to your profile so people can see where you're from and maybe someone will notice you are near them and offer to show you some footage. (besides Chris H. will probably ask you to fix it anyway)
good luck

Vanja Marin · January 31st, 2003, 04:32 PM

Well, I own TRV 950 (so I can say few words about x10, which is PRO-version of my cam )---
It has DV CAM format, XLR adapters and one or two manual contoles more...

And I love this camera (mine; 950), it really produces great picture, colours are great, but I definitly miss few more manual controls (manual IRIS control, manual Zoom ring maybe,), and I miss XLR addapter... (I'll get Beachtech one of these days)....

But what I've definitly noticed, it really needs better performance at low-light conditions....(hey, declared 7 lux - mesuerd is at least 9, I bet:(

And when I am talkin lowlight, I don't mean just dusk or evening, or low litghts interior....
I expirience problems in the middle of the day in room with curtons on....
Except if I am standing next to windows.....

I mean, ok....this isn't tragic problem, but since I am recording materials which I sell to National TV for broadcasting I have to have this lightning standards taken care of....

So, wherever I go, I need to bring lightning with me...

And it's a pretty hard case with 3x1KW lights.... so you need car, it's heavy, and then this "size difference" between x150 and x10 becomes advantage for bigger cam:(

Yes, I know, I should've gone for more proffesional cam at the first place, but I hardley put enaough money toghether to purchase this 950....

And this lightning system, I am still borrowing....
And XLR adaptor with mikes I have to rent....

So, maybe, just maybe....if buying again, I would go for x150....

CCDs are just big enaough for broadcasting quality...

I have 3 over 1 milloion pixels CCD-s, but it uses only about 500 for video....the rest is here for stills (who gives a sh*t about stills; I mean it's ok, but that is really the last thing I am thinkin of when buying camcorder)...
And, OK, it uses some of those "unused" pixels for picture stabilization.....

Ok, I'gone OT...Sorry!

V.

E-Gene Soh · February 1st, 2003, 01:03 AM

Ok, I've posted my location, so please don't send the dogs after me. :P

If the low light problem is as bad as you say it is, then I think it's a cause for concern, cos I do shoot a lot indoors. I'm actually also gonna be doing some work for my church and a lot of it is going to be indoors, therefore I can't afford to have those problems.

So it looks like it is down to the PD150 and the new DVX100 by Panny. Hmmm, yet another tough decision. Will have to hope over to the DVX100 forum for that, or can anyone help me here?

Vanja Marin · February 1st, 2003, 02:12 AM

I've just started this topic a few days ago...
you can find it at "will sony respond"....

And I must say that people who do own it definitly turned me against it....

It still has problems....And those are real prblems, not those "oh my works on 2 lux lower and mine's got manual iris)...

It seems that this 24p camera has a major error...

Sound sync is 2 frames late behind a picture....

They succsseded in making picture work as 24 frames (48 fields) a sec... and sound keeps being 2 frames late....

And its 16:9 isn't real 16:9 and few other things...

COnclusion was that it definitly ain't HD camera, as Pana was going for....

It is pioneering stuff, an therewith very bugy and unstable.....

Actualy, just go to this topic and check it out....
Again, it is called "Will Sony Respond" and is started by me, Vanja Marin....

Good Luck!!!

PS
And You made me kind of feeling guilty that my post was the one to definitly turn you against x10:( Maybe you need some more opinions:(

Maybe I see this lowlight problem bigger then it is (but lot of church jobs- huh, tht could really be a problem)....I don't know...

Rhett Allen · February 1st, 2003, 02:36 AM

I noticed the astronauts on the space shuttle on the NASA channel were using a PDX10.

Also, there is a user on these boards that has a PD-150 and lives there in Melbourne so you might get lucky, I have seen him around but can't remember who it was. He was very helpful when I was looking for some PAL footage and info for the PD-150P (the next camera I am looking to buy, probably in the next few weeks)
As attractive as the DVX100 might be it is just too new for my taste and I've been using the PD-150 for a couple of years now so I am very comfortable with it already and know what it's capable of.

Frank Granovski · February 1st, 2003, 02:56 AM

For what it's worth, I think the PDX10 is a real good cam. If I owned one, I'd be very happy with it..., except for shooting in lower light conditions---and, this is important for 1/2 of my shooting.

Boyd Ostroff · February 1st, 2003, 10:30 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski :
Re: "Btw, what would be the combined price of a VX2K with the Beachtek XLR adapter be? Would it be cheaper than a PD150?"

FWIW, I got a VX-2000 about a year and a half ago. At the time I paid something like $2500 + $200 for a beachtek. At that time the PD-150 was going for about $3500. To be honest, I probably would have gotten the PD-150 but at the time they were really hard to come by and I was in a hurry. I haven't regretted it at all. Just last night I shot some live performance video and used the beachtek for a stereo feed from the house mixing board. It sounded great.

So I second Frank's recommendation, especially since you're concerned about price. With the VX-2000 and Beachtek you should save enough to get a wide angle lens, external charger, even a tripod. Also - I think the Sony NP-F960 battery if a must-have item. These things are just amazing. Last night I ran the camera for over 4 hours with the LCD screen on the whole time. At that point the battery meter said I still had around 6 hours left. That might be a bit optimistic, but I've never run it completely down and know it's good for at least 6 hours, probably more.

E-Gene Soh · February 1st, 2003, 11:43 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski :
Re: Also - I think the Sony NP-F960 battery if a must-have item. These things are just amazing. Last night I ran the camera for over 4 hours with the LCD screen on the whole time. At that point the battery meter said I still had around 6 hours left. That might be a bit optimistic, but I've never run it completely down and know it's good for at least 6 hours, probably more. -->>>

One of the reasons why I began looking at the PD150 was cos of it's batteries as I currently own a TRV7e and it uses the same batteries.

So here's what I've got so far

DVX100 - buggy, pricey but new and "promising"
PDX10 - lousy at low light but small footprint and cheap
PD150 - Pricey, old but reliable and low lux
VX2000 - Lack of XLR but cheaper than PD150

Just to sum it up as it is currently in my mind. Don't we all wish that there was a perfect camera?

Looks like it's gonna come down to rolling a dice soon.

Vanja Marin · February 1st, 2003, 12:37 PM

I am reading and thinking!!!

YOu know, It would be really fair if we all coul've bough at least 2 cammeras...
They should sell them in pair...

You shouldn't be able to buy only one camera, at all:)

E-Gene Soh · February 1st, 2003, 12:44 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Vanja Marin : I am reading and thinking!!!

YOu know, It would be really fair if we all coul've bough at least 2 cammeras...
They should sell them in pair...

You shouldn't be able to buy only one camera, at all:) -->>>

Sounds like a plan to me...

...if money grew on them trees

Kenn Jolemore · February 1st, 2003, 01:58 PM

You wrote:"PDX10 - lousy at low light but small footprint and cheap"That is an inacurate statement ! it is no VX2000 or 150 in dark situations but short of shooting bands in bars or shooting on the street after sundown it's really not that big of a problem. Or are you one of those "documentry" makers that does not believe in lighting your work?
Sounds to me like the VX2000 would do what you want. Unless 16:9 is important to you in which case the X10 is for you. Just plan on useing a bit of light in dark situations. Compromises are part and parcel of a normal work day unless you have the financial padding to avoid it.

John Jay · February 1st, 2003, 05:01 PM

if I were Sony

"I would be happy with our lowest complaint bid....
...if you are shooting at 50IRE or less you are not taking full technical advantage of the medium anyway"

but I am not :)

Bill Pryor · February 3rd, 2003, 09:13 AM

Vanja--Panasonic never claimed the DVX100 was an HD camera. It is miniDV and that's all they've ever said. There are people on some boards who seem to often interchange 24p with HD, thus leading to confusion, probably. The camera is strictly a 1/3" "prosumer" miniDV camera that shoots in 24p as well as standard 30fps. I've also read that the audio is 2 fields out of sync, which would be one frame, not two. Still, even one frame makes it a problem, in my opinion.

January 30th, 2003, 06:35 PM	#16
Brian Pink Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 94	e-gene is there somewhere near you that you can rent the cameras at? i was looking hard at the Canon's, but ended up getting a PD150 after renting them all and trying them out. i've been very happy with the PD150, the lowlight performance is almost unbelievable. __________________ This is the way the world ends.

January 31st, 2003, 04:32 PM	#19
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	About those two cammeras... Well, I own TRV 950 (so I can say few words about x10, which is PRO-version of my cam )--- It has DV CAM format, XLR adapters and one or two manual contoles more... And I love this camera (mine; 950), it really produces great picture, colours are great, but I definitly miss few more manual controls (manual IRIS control, manual Zoom ring maybe,), and I miss XLR addapter... (I'll get Beachtech one of these days).... But what I've definitly noticed, it really needs better performance at low-light conditions....(hey, declared 7 lux - mesuerd is at least 9, I bet:( And when I am talkin lowlight, I don't mean just dusk or evening, or low litghts interior.... I expirience problems in the middle of the day in room with curtons on.... Except if I am standing next to windows..... I mean, ok....this isn't tragic problem, but since I am recording materials which I sell to National TV for broadcasting I have to have this lightning standards taken care of.... So, wherever I go, I need to bring lightning with me... And it's a pretty hard case with 3x1KW lights.... so you need car, it's heavy, and then this "size difference" between x150 and x10 becomes advantage for bigger cam:( Yes, I know, I should've gone for more proffesional cam at the first place, but I hardley put enaough money toghether to purchase this 950.... And this lightning system, I am still borrowing.... And XLR adaptor with mikes I have to rent.... So, maybe, just maybe....if buying again, I would go for x150.... CCDs are just big enaough for broadcasting quality... I have 3 over 1 milloion pixels CCD-s, but it uses only about 500 for video....the rest is here for stills (who gives a sh*t about stills; I mean it's ok, but that is really the last thing I am thinkin of when buying camcorder)... And, OK, it uses some of those "unused" pixels for picture stabilization..... Ok, I'gone OT...Sorry! V.

February 1st, 2003, 01:03 AM	#20
E-Gene Soh New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 21	Ok, I've posted my location, so please don't send the dogs after me. :P If the low light problem is as bad as you say it is, then I think it's a cause for concern, cos I do shoot a lot indoors. I'm actually also gonna be doing some work for my church and a lot of it is going to be indoors, therefore I can't afford to have those problems. So it looks like it is down to the PD150 and the new DVX100 by Panny. Hmmm, yet another tough decision. Will have to hope over to the DVX100 forum for that, or can anyone help me here? __________________ regards, E-Gene Soh "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

February 1st, 2003, 02:12 AM	#21
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	and now about x150 and Pana24p I've just started this topic a few days ago... you can find it at "will sony respond".... And I must say that people who do own it definitly turned me against it.... It still has problems....And those are real prblems, not those "oh my works on 2 lux lower and mine's got manual iris)... It seems that this 24p camera has a major error... Sound sync is 2 frames late behind a picture.... They succsseded in making picture work as 24 frames (48 fields) a sec... and sound keeps being 2 frames late.... And its 16:9 isn't real 16:9 and few other things... COnclusion was that it definitly ain't HD camera, as Pana was going for.... It is pioneering stuff, an therewith very bugy and unstable..... Actualy, just go to this topic and check it out.... Again, it is called "Will Sony Respond" and is started by me, Vanja Marin.... Good Luck!!! PS And You made me kind of feeling guilty that my post was the one to definitly turn you against x10:( Maybe you need some more opinions:( Maybe I see this lowlight problem bigger then it is (but lot of church jobs- huh, tht could really be a problem)....I don't know...

February 1st, 2003, 11:43 AM	#25
E-Gene Soh New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 21	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Re: Also - I think the Sony NP-F960 battery if a must-have item. These things are just amazing. Last night I ran the camera for over 4 hours with the LCD screen on the whole time. At that point the battery meter said I still had around 6 hours left. That might be a bit optimistic, but I've never run it completely down and know it's good for at least 6 hours, probably more. -->>> One of the reasons why I began looking at the PD150 was cos of it's batteries as I currently own a TRV7e and it uses the same batteries. So here's what I've got so far DVX100 - buggy, pricey but new and "promising" PDX10 - lousy at low light but small footprint and cheap PD150 - Pricey, old but reliable and low lux VX2000 - Lack of XLR but cheaper than PD150 Just to sum it up as it is currently in my mind. Don't we all wish that there was a perfect camera? Looks like it's gonna come down to rolling a dice soon. __________________ regards, E-Gene Soh "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

January 31st, 2003, 03:55 AM	#17
E-Gene Soh New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 21	No, unfortunately there aren't many places here that I can rent cameras at a reasonable price for. A friend of mine actually has both the VX2K and the PD150, so I've played with them before and I do like them both. As for the PDX10, I've not gotten a chance to try it out and that's the one which I'm hoping to get some help from.

January 31st, 2003, 12:08 PM	#18
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Why don't you add your location to your profile so people can see where you're from and maybe someone will notice you are near them and offer to show you some footage. (besides Chris H. will probably ask you to fix it anyway) good luck

February 1st, 2003, 02:36 AM	#22
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	I noticed the astronauts on the space shuttle on the NASA channel were using a PDX10. Also, there is a user on these boards that has a PD-150 and lives there in Melbourne so you might get lucky, I have seen him around but can't remember who it was. He was very helpful when I was looking for some PAL footage and info for the PD-150P (the next camera I am looking to buy, probably in the next few weeks) As attractive as the DVX100 might be it is just too new for my taste and I've been using the PD-150 for a couple of years now so I am very comfortable with it already and know what it's capable of.

February 1st, 2003, 02:56 AM	#23
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	For what it's worth, I think the PDX10 is a real good cam. If I owned one, I'd be very happy with it..., except for shooting in lower light conditions---and, this is important for 1/2 of my shooting.

February 1st, 2003, 10:30 AM	#24
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Re: "Btw, what would be the combined price of a VX2K with the Beachtek XLR adapter be? Would it be cheaper than a PD150?" FWIW, I got a VX-2000 about a year and a half ago. At the time I paid something like $2500 + $200 for a beachtek. At that time the PD-150 was going for about $3500. To be honest, I probably would have gotten the PD-150 but at the time they were really hard to come by and I was in a hurry. I haven't regretted it at all. Just last night I shot some live performance video and used the beachtek for a stereo feed from the house mixing board. It sounded great. So I second Frank's recommendation, especially since you're concerned about price. With the VX-2000 and Beachtek you should save enough to get a wide angle lens, external charger, even a tripod. Also - I think the Sony NP-F960 battery if a must-have item. These things are just amazing. Last night I ran the camera for over 4 hours with the LCD screen on the whole time. At that point the battery meter said I still had around 6 hours left. That might be a bit optimistic, but I've never run it completely down and know it's good for at least 6 hours, probably more.

February 1st, 2003, 12:37 PM	#26
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	hm.... I am reading and thinking!!! YOu know, It would be really fair if we all coul've bough at least 2 cammeras... They should sell them in pair... You shouldn't be able to buy only one camera, at all:)

February 1st, 2003, 12:44 PM	#27
E-Gene Soh New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 21	Re: hm.... <<<-- Originally posted by Vanja Marin : I am reading and thinking!!! YOu know, It would be really fair if we all coul've bough at least 2 cammeras... They should sell them in pair... You shouldn't be able to buy only one camera, at all:) -->>> Sounds like a plan to me... ...if money grew on them trees __________________ regards, E-Gene Soh "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

February 1st, 2003, 01:58 PM	#28
Kenn Jolemore Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: norfolk Va. Posts: 124	You wrote:"PDX10 - lousy at low light but small footprint and cheap"That is an inacurate statement ! it is no VX2000 or 150 in dark situations but short of shooting bands in bars or shooting on the street after sundown it's really not that big of a problem. Or are you one of those "documentry" makers that does not believe in lighting your work? Sounds to me like the VX2000 would do what you want. Unless 16:9 is important to you in which case the X10 is for you. Just plan on useing a bit of light in dark situations. Compromises are part and parcel of a normal work day unless you have the financial padding to avoid it. __________________ KennJ

February 1st, 2003, 05:01 PM	#29
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	if I were Sony "I would be happy with our lowest complaint bid.... ...if you are shooting at 50IRE or less you are not taking full technical advantage of the medium anyway" but I am not :)

February 3rd, 2003, 09:13 AM	#30
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Vanja--Panasonic never claimed the DVX100 was an HD camera. It is miniDV and that's all they've ever said. There are people on some boards who seem to often interchange 24p with HD, thus leading to confusion, probably. The camera is strictly a 1/3" "prosumer" miniDV camera that shoots in 24p as well as standard 30fps. I've also read that the audio is 2 fields out of sync, which would be one frame, not two. Still, even one frame makes it a problem, in my opinion.