mixing 2nd cams? sony & pani? at DVinfo.net

Edward Croteau · March 11th, 2005, 09:16 PM

Hello all,
I've noticed that most people tend to stick w/ a particular camera brand, which I suppose makes sense. The problem is that I have a vx2100 & can't really afford a 2nd one for my second camera (& the xlr box, & the AT mic & the etc.) I had thought about looking for a used vx2000, but that's a gamble. So, I was thinking about the pdx-10 (now $200 off), but I do a lot of low light shooting & I am starting to get into weddings, so I'm a little concerned w/ it's min. lux. I was also considering the Pani dvc-30, which is better in low light, but that's starting to go beyond the price range & the video I've seen from them have a more cold blue/greenish tint to the warmer sony. The HC1000 would be nice w/ the better min. lux, but the small battery & lack of physical manual aperture (non-touch screen), really puts me off. My questions are:

Does anybody successfully mix sonys and panasonics (canons?) w/out elaborate color correction in post?

Of the PDX-10 users, is there anybody who can actually claim unusable footage due to low light grain at a wedding, reception, or other low light event? Was it preventable with aperture/slower shudder? Please explain.

Thanks in advance,

--Edward Croteau
Red Quill Productions

Carlos E. Martinez · March 12th, 2005, 06:33 AM

There is a real problem in mixing video cameras if you are going to switch from one's images to the other in your editing.

Some characteristics which are difficult to see looking separately at each's images will become visible when you edit them side by side.

That may not be a problem only on different brands types, but even on cameras of the same type. E.g.: two VX2100.

That problem is also present in pro cameras, so it's not only a prosumer malady. In the latter the problem is even larger and not easy to solve.

But there are ways that will allow you alternating your images:

1) Use one camera, preferably the larger CCD one, for wider shots and the other for the close-ups. You might have some color imbalances that you may correct during editing.

2) Use a softening filter on the close-up camera, though do tests to see if it doesn't affect colour. Some have a slight tint. Even if you want to use the second camera for a wider shot and it is filtered, the effect will wipe the differences.

3) Switch one camera images to black & white, or mute the colours somehow during editing. This will look like a purpose effect that may impress your customers or viewers.

4) Use unusual angles or lighting effects on the smaller CCD camera, as then the image force will distract from the differences.

There are many more ways to go about this, but you have to accept the fact that you shouldn't consider those images as if they came from the same camera.

Carlos

Tom Hardwick · March 12th, 2005, 02:13 PM

I use a small Panasonic 3 chip MX300 for my second (unmanned) cam at weddings. I sits at the back and runs happily till the tape runs out. I leave it on full auto most of the time as I'll be using it as a cut-away cam on the timeline.

The big difference between it and the VX2k is the low-light capability and the colour differences. The former I can't do much about, but the latter is easily corrected. My Canopus Storm has real-time colour correction, but better yet it has a two click white balance correction filter. Once both takes are on the timeline the Panasonic footage can be very accurately matched to the Sony.

The trick is to have the cameras spaced well apart during the service / reception, whatever, then the cuts to the different pictures go un-noticed. If you had the Sony and Panasonic side-by-side then they would be more difficult to match.

tom.

March 11th, 2005, 09:16 PM	#1
Edward Croteau New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lincoln, NH Posts: 10	mixing 2nd cams? sony & pani? Hello all, I've noticed that most people tend to stick w/ a particular camera brand, which I suppose makes sense. The problem is that I have a vx2100 & can't really afford a 2nd one for my second camera (& the xlr box, & the AT mic & the etc.) I had thought about looking for a used vx2000, but that's a gamble. So, I was thinking about the pdx-10 (now $200 off), but I do a lot of low light shooting & I am starting to get into weddings, so I'm a little concerned w/ it's min. lux. I was also considering the Pani dvc-30, which is better in low light, but that's starting to go beyond the price range & the video I've seen from them have a more cold blue/greenish tint to the warmer sony. The HC1000 would be nice w/ the better min. lux, but the small battery & lack of physical manual aperture (non-touch screen), really puts me off. My questions are: Does anybody successfully mix sonys and panasonics (canons?) w/out elaborate color correction in post? Of the PDX-10 users, is there anybody who can actually claim unusable footage due to low light grain at a wedding, reception, or other low light event? Was it preventable with aperture/slower shudder? Please explain. Thanks in advance, --Edward Croteau Red Quill Productions

March 12th, 2005, 06:33 AM	#2
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	There is a real problem in mixing video cameras if you are going to switch from one's images to the other in your editing. Some characteristics which are difficult to see looking separately at each's images will become visible when you edit them side by side. That may not be a problem only on different brands types, but even on cameras of the same type. E.g.: two VX2100. That problem is also present in pro cameras, so it's not only a prosumer malady. In the latter the problem is even larger and not easy to solve. But there are ways that will allow you alternating your images: 1) Use one camera, preferably the larger CCD one, for wider shots and the other for the close-ups. You might have some color imbalances that you may correct during editing. 2) Use a softening filter on the close-up camera, though do tests to see if it doesn't affect colour. Some have a slight tint. Even if you want to use the second camera for a wider shot and it is filtered, the effect will wipe the differences. 3) Switch one camera images to black & white, or mute the colours somehow during editing. This will look like a purpose effect that may impress your customers or viewers. 4) Use unusual angles or lighting effects on the smaller CCD camera, as then the image force will distract from the differences. There are many more ways to go about this, but you have to accept the fact that you shouldn't consider those images as if they came from the same camera. Carlos

March 12th, 2005, 02:13 PM	#3
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I use a small Panasonic 3 chip MX300 for my second (unmanned) cam at weddings. I sits at the back and runs happily till the tape runs out. I leave it on full auto most of the time as I'll be using it as a cut-away cam on the timeline. The big difference between it and the VX2k is the low-light capability and the colour differences. The former I can't do much about, but the latter is easily corrected. My Canopus Storm has real-time colour correction, but better yet it has a two click white balance correction filter. Once both takes are on the timeline the Panasonic footage can be very accurately matched to the Sony. The trick is to have the cameras spaced well apart during the service / reception, whatever, then the cuts to the different pictures go un-noticed. If you had the Sony and Panasonic side-by-side then they would be more difficult to match. tom.