Sony DSR-PDX10P at DVinfo.net

Chris Tsamados · August 29th, 2002, 11:50 AM

Has anyone heard anything about this camcorder I myself have heard that it can film in true widescreen, it retails for $4000 so this would be some achievement if true.

Mike Rehmus · August 29th, 2002, 01:17 PM

It is the pro version of the TRV950 camera.

It is not 16:9 native format or at least it does not talk about that on the last brochure I read.

I believe the least expensive Sony with 16:9 CCDs is the DSR500WS.

Do a search for the camera and you can find sites with the camera brochure on them.

Chris Tsamados · August 29th, 2002, 02:22 PM

Yes I think you right as soon as I posted that thread I did a search on google and could not fing any info saying that is was true widescreen, looks like my source was talking out of his arse.

Mike Rehmus · August 30th, 2002, 06:55 PM

I just read on a WEVA forum that a guy at the big WEVA show in Las Vegas saw the camera and it is, according to him, true 16:9. Strange that Sony is not publicizing that.

I'm going to ask a few questions around.

Mike Rehmus · September 1st, 2002, 01:39 PM

Sony is claiming that the pixel count in the CCD is high enough to deliver high-resolution 16:9.

Still not quite a statement about the ccd being a true 16:9

And the street price is within $100 or so of a VX-2000.

Jim Nicholls · September 1st, 2002, 11:53 PM

Sony are advertising the DSR-PDX10P in Broadcast Engineering News August 2002, Australia as:

"World First:
REAL 16:9
The wait is over!"

It claims "it brings true 3-CCD high resolution 16:9 performance to a handheld DVCAM camcorder."

It then invites you to visit

www.sony.com.au/production

but I did'nt find any more info.

Together with the MX5000, this camera has the potential to severly affect 4:3 sales. I don't think I will ever buy another 4:3 camera again.

Jim

Jim

Margus Kivilaan · September 2nd, 2002, 06:01 AM

hi Chris,
as i understood, PD10 is'nt true 16:9 camera, but it has megapix chips, so it can read all TV lines in 16:9, PD150 just cuts off 25% of lines. Sony guys said it will beat hands down 150 in 16:9 format, even having (near)1/5" chips compared to 1/3" PD150. What is more impressive, it uses 14bit coder (150 was.. i'm not sure.. 10 or 12bit)
so far it's only words. I'm waiting for first PD10 to try it out.
I think that CCD and optics are the same as TRV-950, some slight differences in audio part and mechanics.

regards,
Margus

September 18th, 2002, 12:48 AM

From what I can gather the normal effective 4:3 TV ratio is floated on a 4:3 CCD chip. The rest of the chip is not used except for stills and of course image stabalisation (hence the floating effective area). I think what sony claims to do is not to float the a 4:3 aspect on the 4:3 chip but to use all the horizontal space of the chip to capature the 16:9 and the vertal resolution is kept the same without having to cut off due to the megapixel ccds..

I am not sure if this is true. anybody who has played with it do tell. Will there be a new PD150 with this widescreen function from sony in the future (It would kinda make sense if they did it on the TV950 pro version)

Graham Baker · September 26th, 2002, 09:22 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by ThreeSixtyProductions : . The rest of the chip is not used except for stills and of course image stabalisation (hence the floating effective area-->>>

Ohhh - are you saying then that the 950 & PDX10 have reverted back to electronic image stabilisation?

Previous 3ccd Sony cams all used optical stabilisation.
Unless things have improved a great deal with EIS (and I know there has been *some* improvment over the years) then this sounds like a huge backward step if it's true...

September 27th, 2002, 01:08 AM

No I still think they use optical image stablisation. But even with OIS they never seem to use the entire CCD (I think the optical image stablisation still movies a 4:3 picture around a large 4:3 aspect to some degree. (I am not expert on this if somebody can explain it I would be very grateful).

Now if the PDX10 can resolve more TV lines in t he 16:9 aspect due to the mega pixal count of each CCD does anybody know the number of lines it resolves at the 16:9 aspect.

The other question from this too is how do NLE handle this aspect full resolution in the 16:9 aspect.

Chris Hurd · September 27th, 2002, 05:23 AM

Optical Image Stabilization on Sony camcorders is actually Canon's own technology licensed to Sony and called "Super Steady Shot." It employs a mechanical process involving a vari-angle prism and does not affect image quality as electronic image stabilization does. Hope this helps,

Graham Baker · September 27th, 2002, 05:18 PM

Regarding 16:9 NLE - my 4 yr old Raptor setup copes with 16:9 very well, except it can't handle a mix of the two ratios on in one project.

This new 16:9 ability sounds very interesting and is something I would probably upgrade my Panny MX300 for - the world (and Australia!) is going in this direction and the pace is on the increase...

Panasonic have a new cam (MX500) coming out in a few weeks with a similar 16:9 capability. There is also a neat little feature on some new Panny cams (I hope the MX500 is one of them) where it uses the full size of the megapixel chip in a special video 'zoom' mode to give a longer range zoom rather than going from optical to digital zoom as most cams do.
I havn't explained it very well here - I must try and find the original article - the bottom line is that it makes full use of all the megapixels (that are normally only used for stills to chip) during video zooming...

October 4th, 2002, 10:44 PM

I was at the IFP Market in New York today and the Sony Rep. claimed unequivocally that the PDX10 has native 16:9 CCDs. He said this means it's 16:9 mode has 30% more resolution than the 16:9 mode on the TRV950 (which is native 4:3).

October 4th, 2002, 11:39 PM

From what I have heard the CCDs are 4:3 however normally the entire CCD is not used eg has an effective resolution, which is smaller. From what I can gather as each chip is is mega pixel there is enough resolution to allow all the horizontal part of the chip to be used and the verticle resolution stays the same as it would at 4:3 530 tv lines resolved.

Does anybody know about the DV codec and can explain how full resolution 16:9 can be recorded at 25meg/second bitrate.

October 5th, 2002, 12:05 AM

For what it's worth, I specifically asked this question of the Sony Rep. and the engineer guy they had there. They said the TRV950 has 4:3 chips, but uses it's megapixel resolution to capture 16:9. But they said the PDX10 has different CCDs from the TRV950. They said the PDX10 has 16:9 CCDs, which therefore have better resolution in 16:9 mode (30% better) than the TRV950. Maybe the reps don't know what they're talking about (that seems pretty plausible) but I did very specifically ask this question.

August 29th, 2002, 11:50 AM	#1
Chris Tsamados Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36	Sony DSR-PDX10P Has anyone heard anything about this camcorder I myself have heard that it can film in true widescreen, it retails for $4000 so this would be some achievement if true.

August 29th, 2002, 01:17 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	It is the pro version of the TRV950 camera. It is not 16:9 native format or at least it does not talk about that on the last brochure I read. I believe the least expensive Sony with 16:9 CCDs is the DSR500WS. Do a search for the camera and you can find sites with the camera brochure on them. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 30th, 2002, 06:55 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I just read on a WEVA forum that a guy at the big WEVA show in Las Vegas saw the camera and it is, according to him, true 16:9. Strange that Sony is not publicizing that. I'm going to ask a few questions around. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 1st, 2002, 01:39 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Sony is claiming that the pixel count in the CCD is high enough to deliver high-resolution 16:9. Still not quite a statement about the ccd being a true 16:9 And the street price is within $100 or so of a VX-2000. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 27th, 2002, 05:23 AM	#11
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Optical Image Stabilization on Sony camcorders is actually Canon's own technology licensed to Sony and called "Super Steady Shot." It employs a mechanical process involving a vari-angle prism and does not affect image quality as electronic image stabilization does. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 29th, 2002, 02:22 PM	#3
Chris Tsamados Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36	Yes I think you right as soon as I posted that thread I did a search on google and could not fing any info saying that is was true widescreen, looks like my source was talking out of his arse.

September 1st, 2002, 11:53 PM	#6
Jim Nicholls Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 27	Sony are advertising the DSR-PDX10P in Broadcast Engineering News August 2002, Australia as: "World First: REAL 16:9 The wait is over!" It claims "it brings true 3-CCD high resolution 16:9 performance to a handheld DVCAM camcorder." It then invites you to visit www.sony.com.au/production but I did'nt find any more info. Together with the MX5000, this camera has the potential to severly affect 4:3 sales. I don't think I will ever buy another 4:3 camera again. Jim Jim

September 2nd, 2002, 06:01 AM	#7
Margus Kivilaan Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 123	hi Chris, as i understood, PD10 is'nt true 16:9 camera, but it has megapix chips, so it can read all TV lines in 16:9, PD150 just cuts off 25% of lines. Sony guys said it will beat hands down 150 in 16:9 format, even having (near)1/5" chips compared to 1/3" PD150. What is more impressive, it uses 14bit coder (150 was.. i'm not sure.. 10 or 12bit) so far it's only words. I'm waiting for first PD10 to try it out. I think that CCD and optics are the same as TRV-950, some slight differences in audio part and mechanics. regards, Margus

September 18th, 2002, 12:48 AM	#8
ThreeSixtyProductions Posts: n/a	From what I can gather the normal effective 4:3 TV ratio is floated on a 4:3 CCD chip. The rest of the chip is not used except for stills and of course image stabalisation (hence the floating effective area). I think what sony claims to do is not to float the a 4:3 aspect on the 4:3 chip but to use all the horizontal space of the chip to capature the 16:9 and the vertal resolution is kept the same without having to cut off due to the megapixel ccds.. I am not sure if this is true. anybody who has played with it do tell. Will there be a new PD150 with this widescreen function from sony in the future (It would kinda make sense if they did it on the TV950 pro version)

September 26th, 2002, 09:22 PM	#9
Graham Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 43	<<<-- Originally posted by ThreeSixtyProductions : . The rest of the chip is not used except for stills and of course image stabalisation (hence the floating effective area-->>> Ohhh - are you saying then that the 950 & PDX10 have reverted back to electronic image stabilisation? Previous 3ccd Sony cams all used optical stabilisation. Unless things have improved a great deal with EIS (and I know there has been some improvment over the years) then this sounds like a huge backward step if it's true...

September 27th, 2002, 01:08 AM	#10
ThreeSixtyProductions Posts: n/a	No I still think they use optical image stablisation. But even with OIS they never seem to use the entire CCD (I think the optical image stablisation still movies a 4:3 picture around a large 4:3 aspect to some degree. (I am not expert on this if somebody can explain it I would be very grateful). Now if the PDX10 can resolve more TV lines in t he 16:9 aspect due to the mega pixal count of each CCD does anybody know the number of lines it resolves at the 16:9 aspect. The other question from this too is how do NLE handle this aspect full resolution in the 16:9 aspect.

September 27th, 2002, 05:18 PM	#12
Graham Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 43	Regarding 16:9 NLE - my 4 yr old Raptor setup copes with 16:9 very well, except it can't handle a mix of the two ratios on in one project. This new 16:9 ability sounds very interesting and is something I would probably upgrade my Panny MX300 for - the world (and Australia!) is going in this direction and the pace is on the increase... Panasonic have a new cam (MX500) coming out in a few weeks with a similar 16:9 capability. There is also a neat little feature on some new Panny cams (I hope the MX500 is one of them) where it uses the full size of the megapixel chip in a special video 'zoom' mode to give a longer range zoom rather than going from optical to digital zoom as most cams do. I havn't explained it very well here - I must try and find the original article - the bottom line is that it makes full use of all the megapixels (that are normally only used for stills to chip) during video zooming...

October 4th, 2002, 10:44 PM	#13
donking! Posts: n/a	I was at the IFP Market in New York today and the Sony Rep. claimed unequivocally that the PDX10 has native 16:9 CCDs. He said this means it's 16:9 mode has 30% more resolution than the 16:9 mode on the TRV950 (which is native 4:3).

October 4th, 2002, 11:39 PM	#14
ThreeSixtyProductions Posts: n/a	From what I have heard the CCDs are 4:3 however normally the entire CCD is not used eg has an effective resolution, which is smaller. From what I can gather as each chip is is mega pixel there is enough resolution to allow all the horizontal part of the chip to be used and the verticle resolution stays the same as it would at 4:3 530 tv lines resolved. Does anybody know about the DV codec and can explain how full resolution 16:9 can be recorded at 25meg/second bitrate.

October 5th, 2002, 12:05 AM	#15
donking! Posts: n/a	For what it's worth, I specifically asked this question of the Sony Rep. and the engineer guy they had there. They said the TRV950 has 4:3 chips, but uses it's megapixel resolution to capture 16:9. But they said the PDX10 has different CCDs from the TRV950. They said the PDX10 has 16:9 CCDs, which therefore have better resolution in 16:9 mode (30% better) than the TRV950. Maybe the reps don't know what they're talking about (that seems pretty plausible) but I did very specifically ask this question.