PDX10 -- various questions

Shawn Mielke · February 18th, 2004, 08:06 PM

What do you think you might use the PDX for?

Maurizio Panella · February 19th, 2004, 03:37 AM

Little productions or second camera in normal work and holydays. I'd like to know if some particular things I use with 390 are possible to use with PDX10 in the same way (light on camera and portable hd DU1). I have an old 1998 XL1 and before to change I want to be sure.
Maurizio.

Tom Hardwick · February 20th, 2004, 02:32 PM

I think if you approach the PDX10 as a point-and-shoot amateur then the camera gives strikingly good results. But I fear for a man coming from a DSR, and I fear because you may be wanting to see what aperture you're shooting at and may not like the CCD smear and be upset by the three internal NDs that you can't switch off - even in manual.

Read up (here) about this cam. If you're happy for Sony to make the shooting decisions for you then it's indeed a great performing camera, and in 16:9 it's wonderful. Except that you have to be *so* careful about that smear.

tom.

Frank Granovski · March 21st, 2004, 10:08 PM

Thanks, Lambis. It's always complicated to buy from outside of your country---I do it all the time!

Dave Lammey · April 7th, 2004, 06:38 AM

I currently do weddings with two VX2000s and I'm thinking of getting a PDX-10 as a third camera ... I realize that there is a lux rating difference, but assuming one is shooting in good light, how does footage from the PDX-10 match up with the VX2000 (or PD-150)? Will it require a lot of work in post?

Thanks!

Patrick Grealy · April 7th, 2004, 08:10 AM

Don't believe that you should have any problems assuming that the PSX is not used in complete darkness (and it is used in 4:3 format)

P

Shawn Mielke · April 7th, 2004, 10:51 AM

I haven't done a side by side comparison, but, at a glance, the PDX and pd170 look very similar.

Dave Lammey · April 7th, 2004, 02:22 PM

Thanks guys!

Alan Ford · May 11th, 2004, 06:52 PM

I am about to purchase a DV camera for some work on documentaries and shorts. For my budget, the PDX10 looks like a great little camera, but I need help in deciding between PDX10, PD100A or PD150. Here are my concerns:

1. Some people say it performs bad in low-light. 7 lux, right? Is it acceptable or simply poor? Would it be okay to use it occasionaly at, let's say indoor rock concerts and for some night exterior shots without extra lighting? What are your experiences?

2. How does it perform with Final Cut Pro 4? Especially the 16:9 footage; does it integrate well?

3. How does it compare to PD100A? The PD100A is supposed to have better low-light performance. True or not? Also, I've heard the PD100A only takes DVCAM tapes and it doesn't have the 16:9 native mode like PDX10. Anyway, could used PD100A be a better/cheaper alternative?

4. Used PD150 is still a few hundred more than PDX10. Is it worth spending that extra money for what most people claim is really good low-light performance? Does PD150 have 16:9 native mode as PDX10?

I would appreciate any input on this, because I will have to decide soon.
Thanks a lot!

Chris Long · May 11th, 2004, 07:22 PM

Hi Alan! A few bits of opinion for you. I don't feel confident about answering them all:

2. It works just fine with FCP--no problems. The 16X9 looks tremendous.

4. b. PD150's 16X9 is not native. It's got less resolution than the PDX10 in that mode.

A few others around here will help with the rest. Boyd has done a lot with theatrical shooting, so maybe he has an answer on the rock concert thing.

Overall, this is a wonderful camera. For a documentary, its small and unobtrusive, great quality, and great sound capability. I haven't minded the low-light deal, but then I hardly ever shoot in the dark...

Boyd Ostroff · May 11th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Alan, you should be OK for rock concerts unless they are REALLY dark. Night exteriors might be more problematic, depending on the levels. You can generally get an image but in very dark places there will be a lot of noise in the picture.

I think the PD-100A has the same DVCAM abilities as the PDX-10, but have never used one. The PDX-10's 16:9 mode is unusually good and will not be matched by either the PD-100 or PD-150. They should produce images in the 16:9 anamorphic format, but the resolution will be lower.

Alan Ford · May 13th, 2004, 09:04 AM

Boyd & Chris,

Thanks a lot for your input. I will try to get my hands on one PDX10 and test it in previously mentioned situations before I can really decide. It seems that it comes down to this:

CONS:
vertical smear problem
not ideal low light performance
can't control gain manually

PROS
16:9 native
XLR audio
size
price!

Starting with PDX10 and adding a PD150/170 later is probably a good way to go - especially since I need something soon, but can't spend a fortune on it.

Oh, and by the way, if someone has a link to some video footage made with PDX10, please post it...

Thanks.

Ralf Strandell · May 13th, 2004, 11:15 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alan Ford :
"1. Some people say it performs bad in low-light. 7 lux, right? Is it acceptable or simply poor?"

Why don't you go to camcorderinfo.com and see their camcorder tests. Lots of camcorders tested at 15 lux. You can compare... You'll also need to test the camcorder yourself. And remember to set the gain to max 12dB or max 6dB before testing, because at max gain the black noise on the screen is disturbing IMHO.

"Would it be okay to use it occasionaly at, let's say indoor rock concerts and for some night exterior shots without extra lighting? What are your experiences?"

Concerning night exteriors: Will there be movement in the video? You'll learn to use the words "still" and "slow"... "Don't move, I'm recoring some video" ;)

The PDX-10 is a daylight camera. I have tried to use it in the middle of the night and I can tell you that

1) some star/moonshine reflecting from snow is not enough: you'll record true black. You need the sun, a fire or electric lighting of some sort.

2) if there is a small 1-2 feet wide campfire then the people next to the fire (3-6 feet away) will be visible when using slow shutter speeds. Nice red/orange glow... And I mean SLOW shutter speeds. 1/3 seconds - 1/6 seconds. You'll get some nice audio and an interesting slideshow - unless, of course, the people are moving a lot.

3) in the city things get simpler. A clear blue night sky, snow, some lamps on the yard, street lighting etc. will create very very beautiful images. But you'll probably need 1/25 sec shutter speed (or 1/12 sec - 1/6 sec for more brightness). It's a very nice effect, though. A night time interview might be possible if the interviewed person stays relatively still. Any auxiliary light and manual exposure (of course) would be useful. But if you want a bright picture at full 1/50 sec or 1/60 sec then you'd better be under a pretty bright lamp or have proper lighting equipment.

I'm happy with my PDX-10, in daylight. But when the moon rises... Remember that it's a daylight camera. You won't be able to do night time interviews or shorts without some extra lighting or slow shutter speeds. Things change, when the subject is on a stage with proper spot lights and all...

You could add that "night" in post, right?

Other things to consider: the PDX-10 does not have very a wide angle of view. If you are going to shoot inside then you'll probably need a good zoom-through wide angle adapter. Most DV cameras share this problem.

A big plus are the manual focus buttons: Auto/Manual/Infinity + PushAuto button. I just love the "push auto" focus button... And the size of the camera is great! You can do shooting relatively unnoticed...

Love Mov · May 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM

If you are interested in a pd10, I have some screen grab here, take a look.

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/...num=1084424677

Tom Hardwick · May 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Lots of good pointers here. One thing though - the PD100 has been discontinued for some time now (c. 18 months). It's a good 2 stops more sensitive than the replacement PDX10, but then it has bigger chips with fewer pixels. It's a trade...

You seem to have done your investigating well Alan, and your pro and con list is pretty good. All the cons are deleted at a stroke if you go straight to the 150/170, but of course the size/price barrier is a problem.

Bottom line has got to be this. If you want the best 16:9 for the dollar, the PDX10 is you cam, period. If this is just a passing fancy then the 150/170 is a very much better camera in a whole host of ways, almost too many to mention here. And lookie here - the VX2100 is just a few dollars more than the PDX...

tom.

February 18th, 2004, 08:06 PM	#91
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	What do you think you might use the PDX for? __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

April 7th, 2004, 06:38 AM	#95
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	matching PDX footage with VX2000 footage I currently do weddings with two VX2000s and I'm thinking of getting a PDX-10 as a third camera ... I realize that there is a lux rating difference, but assuming one is shooting in good light, how does footage from the PDX-10 match up with the VX2000 (or PD-150)? Will it require a lot of work in post? Thanks!

April 7th, 2004, 08:10 AM	#96
Patrick Grealy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 90	Don't believe that you should have any problems assuming that the PSX is not used in complete darkness (and it is used in 4:3 format) P __________________ Sony PDX10 by 2, DRS-11, Dual G5, FCX, DVDSP and Logic Plat. www.VarsityMusicVideo.com

April 7th, 2004, 10:51 AM	#97
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	I haven't done a side by side comparison, but, at a glance, the PDX and pd170 look very similar. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

May 11th, 2004, 06:52 PM	#99
Alan Ford Tourist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3	PDX10 Questions! Help! I am about to purchase a DV camera for some work on documentaries and shorts. For my budget, the PDX10 looks like a great little camera, but I need help in deciding between PDX10, PD100A or PD150. Here are my concerns: 1. Some people say it performs bad in low-light. 7 lux, right? Is it acceptable or simply poor? Would it be okay to use it occasionaly at, let's say indoor rock concerts and for some night exterior shots without extra lighting? What are your experiences? 2. How does it perform with Final Cut Pro 4? Especially the 16:9 footage; does it integrate well? 3. How does it compare to PD100A? The PD100A is supposed to have better low-light performance. True or not? Also, I've heard the PD100A only takes DVCAM tapes and it doesn't have the 16:9 native mode like PDX10. Anyway, could used PD100A be a better/cheaper alternative? 4. Used PD150 is still a few hundred more than PDX10. Is it worth spending that extra money for what most people claim is really good low-light performance? Does PD150 have 16:9 native mode as PDX10? I would appreciate any input on this, because I will have to decide soon. Thanks a lot!

February 19th, 2004, 03:37 AM	#92
Maurizio Panella Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Reggio Emilia Italy Posts: 63	Little productions or second camera in normal work and holydays. I'd like to know if some particular things I use with 390 are possible to use with PDX10 in the same way (light on camera and portable hd DU1). I have an old 1998 XL1 and before to change I want to be sure. Maurizio.

February 20th, 2004, 02:32 PM	#93
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I think if you approach the PDX10 as a point-and-shoot amateur then the camera gives strikingly good results. But I fear for a man coming from a DSR, and I fear because you may be wanting to see what aperture you're shooting at and may not like the CCD smear and be upset by the three internal NDs that you can't switch off - even in manual. Read up (here) about this cam. If you're happy for Sony to make the shooting decisions for you then it's indeed a great performing camera, and in 16:9 it's wonderful. Except that you have to be so careful about that smear. tom.

March 21st, 2004, 10:08 PM	#94
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks, Lambis. It's always complicated to buy from outside of your country---I do it all the time!

April 7th, 2004, 02:22 PM	#98
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Thanks guys!

May 11th, 2004, 07:22 PM	#100
Chris Long Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middletown, Maryland USA Posts: 177	Hi Alan! A few bits of opinion for you. I don't feel confident about answering them all: 2. It works just fine with FCP--no problems. The 16X9 looks tremendous. 4. b. PD150's 16X9 is not native. It's got less resolution than the PDX10 in that mode. A few others around here will help with the rest. Boyd has done a lot with theatrical shooting, so maybe he has an answer on the rock concert thing. Overall, this is a wonderful camera. For a documentary, its small and unobtrusive, great quality, and great sound capability. I haven't minded the low-light deal, but then I hardly ever shoot in the dark...

May 11th, 2004, 10:13 PM	#101
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,790	Alan, you should be OK for rock concerts unless they are REALLY dark. Night exteriors might be more problematic, depending on the levels. You can generally get an image but in very dark places there will be a lot of noise in the picture. I think the PD-100A has the same DVCAM abilities as the PDX-10, but have never used one. The PDX-10's 16:9 mode is unusually good and will not be matched by either the PD-100 or PD-150. They should produce images in the 16:9 anamorphic format, but the resolution will be lower.

May 13th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#102
Alan Ford Tourist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 3	Boyd & Chris, Thanks a lot for your input. I will try to get my hands on one PDX10 and test it in previously mentioned situations before I can really decide. It seems that it comes down to this: CONS: vertical smear problem not ideal low light performance can't control gain manually PROS 16:9 native XLR audio size price! Starting with PDX10 and adding a PD150/170 later is probably a good way to go - especially since I need something soon, but can't spend a fortune on it. Oh, and by the way, if someone has a link to some video footage made with PDX10, please post it... Thanks.

May 13th, 2004, 11:15 AM	#103
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	Re: PDX10 Questions! Help! <<<-- Originally posted by Alan Ford : "1. Some people say it performs bad in low-light. 7 lux, right? Is it acceptable or simply poor?" Why don't you go to camcorderinfo.com and see their camcorder tests. Lots of camcorders tested at 15 lux. You can compare... You'll also need to test the camcorder yourself. And remember to set the gain to max 12dB or max 6dB before testing, because at max gain the black noise on the screen is disturbing IMHO. "Would it be okay to use it occasionaly at, let's say indoor rock concerts and for some night exterior shots without extra lighting? What are your experiences?" Concerning night exteriors: Will there be movement in the video? You'll learn to use the words "still" and "slow"... "Don't move, I'm recoring some video" ;) The PDX-10 is a daylight camera. I have tried to use it in the middle of the night and I can tell you that 1) some star/moonshine reflecting from snow is not enough: you'll record true black. You need the sun, a fire or electric lighting of some sort. 2) if there is a small 1-2 feet wide campfire then the people next to the fire (3-6 feet away) will be visible when using slow shutter speeds. Nice red/orange glow... And I mean SLOW shutter speeds. 1/3 seconds - 1/6 seconds. You'll get some nice audio and an interesting slideshow - unless, of course, the people are moving a lot. 3) in the city things get simpler. A clear blue night sky, snow, some lamps on the yard, street lighting etc. will create very very beautiful images. But you'll probably need 1/25 sec shutter speed (or 1/12 sec - 1/6 sec for more brightness). It's a very nice effect, though. A night time interview might be possible if the interviewed person stays relatively still. Any auxiliary light and manual exposure (of course) would be useful. But if you want a bright picture at full 1/50 sec or 1/60 sec then you'd better be under a pretty bright lamp or have proper lighting equipment. I'm happy with my PDX-10, in daylight. But when the moon rises... Remember that it's a daylight camera. You won't be able to do night time interviews or shorts without some extra lighting or slow shutter speeds. Things change, when the subject is on a stage with proper spot lights and all... You could add that "night" in post, right? Other things to consider: the PDX-10 does not have very a wide angle of view. If you are going to shoot inside then you'll probably need a good zoom-through wide angle adapter. Most DV cameras share this problem. A big plus are the manual focus buttons: Auto/Manual/Infinity + PushAuto button. I just love the "push auto" focus button... And the size of the camera is great! You can do shooting relatively unnoticed...

May 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM	#104
Love Mov Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 97	Some pdx10 screen grab If you are interested in a pd10, I have some screen grab here, take a look. http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/...num=1084424677

May 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#105
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Lots of good pointers here. One thing though - the PD100 has been discontinued for some time now (c. 18 months). It's a good 2 stops more sensitive than the replacement PDX10, but then it has bigger chips with fewer pixels. It's a trade... You seem to have done your investigating well Alan, and your pro and con list is pretty good. All the cons are deleted at a stroke if you go straight to the 150/170, but of course the size/price barrier is a problem. Bottom line has got to be this. If you want the best 16:9 for the dollar, the PDX10 is you cam, period. If this is just a passing fancy then the 150/170 is a very much better camera in a whole host of ways, almost too many to mention here. And lookie here - the VX2100 is just a few dollars more than the PDX... tom.