PDX10 -- various questions

Boyd Ostroff · May 3rd, 2003, 06:58 AM

There may be a comparison between the PDX-10 and TRV-950, but I put some images online to compare the VX-2000 and PDX-10 at http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10. I've never used a 950 but have seen a variety of posts like Jeff's that say it does 16:9 by cropping.

Gareth Mattison · May 9th, 2003, 04:52 AM

I want to upgrade to a 3CCD model. I'm currently using a TRV25E which has served me well but I need more manual controls and want better quality sound and images. I'm looking at one of the above models but despite reading some fascinating stuff in the forums I still can't make my mind up. I like shooting in 16:9 so the pdx10 sounds great but I also like moody low-light shooting (no0t that it looks too hot on my current model) and would love to be able to create shallower DoF (which seem to be VX2000 strengths). I simply don't know of anywhere where I could try both of these models to compare so I'd love some further advice as to their strengths and weaknesses - or whether I'm too hooked on Sony and there is another manufacturer producing something that would better suit my requirements.

Gareth

Boyd Ostroff · May 9th, 2003, 08:28 AM

A lot has already been said on this topic. I own both cameras and they each have their strengths. Instead of repeating my earlier comments, you might browse through the following search results first http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.ph...der=descending. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions for you either here or by e-mail.

Erik J Na · May 22nd, 2003, 09:23 PM

finally I got my PDX10 today. I would like to thank everyone on this forum for all the input, specially Boyd and Jan. it's been great helpful. I haven't try anything special yet with my new CAM, but it feels rock solid. not like my old VX1000. I found that low light performance of PDX10 is sufficient to me. ^-^

Frank Granovski · May 22nd, 2003, 10:58 PM

Congrats! Hope you enjoy your PDX cam. They are very popular here in Vancouver.

Jan Roovers · May 23rd, 2003, 03:27 AM

This cam is so small that it can easily be hold overhead attached on a monopod to shoot over a crowd.
i have an example here:

http://www.jtv.be/JTV/captures/still...d-720x504.html

By the way with a little extra weight the monopod helps as a kind of cheap steadycam. It works.

Frank Granovski · May 23rd, 2003, 03:58 AM

Though I prefer a GL2 or Pana 3-chip hand-held for hand held shots because they are better balanced. That includes the Pana's 24P. But nice cam, nevertheless!

Boyd Ostroff · May 23rd, 2003, 07:37 AM

Congratulations Erik! Have fun and be sure to report back to us after you've put the camera through its paces!

Guustaaf Damave · May 26th, 2003, 01:03 PM

A while ago I purchased two Sony DSR-PDX10 camcorders and the first thing I used them for was to record some interviews where I put them side by side, each with a different shot so I could later edit between the shots at any time. I also bought a Soundcraft Spirit M12 mixer to use it to preamp a Sennheiser MK66 and a lapel mic and distribute the signal to the line inputs of the cameras. To get an idea of how the mixer and the cameras matched level wise I ran a 1 kHz tone from a CD into the board, set the output at 0 dB on the meters and listened at the cameras with a headphone. Ouch! Distortion. Well, what can you expect from these small looking cameras, they can not handle a professional line level. I put 14 dB pads in the cables that connect the mixer to the cameras to attanuate the signal and this would surely take care of the problem.

Surprise! The problem got worse. During the shoot I used the padded cables to run the signal from the mixer into the microphone inputs of the camera. Then, when I was almost ready to ship both cameras back to Sony for repair, I tried one more thing. I borrowed another mixer from a friend, a Mackie 1202. I ran the same tone into the Mackie, set the level at 0 dB and listened at the camera. Sounded good. I could only conclude that the problem was with the Soundcraft mixer. But wait! The tone sounded good at 0 dB and over through the headphone output of the Soundcraft. So I ran the main outs with a tone into the Mackie, guess what, it sounded distorted at 0 dB. So the Soundcraft mixer produced a distorted signal at the main outs at 0 dB while sounding good at the headphones. That was a particulairly nasty kind of malfunction.

The vendor agreed to replace the board with another one and I immidiately checked it for this problem. Guess what? This one was broken too. I asked the vendor to repeat my test to verify that both mixers were broken, but he was 'too busy'. I got on the phone with Soundcraft. The guy I talked to seemed to have his response to this problem well prepared. He told me this was supposed to happen. No overhead? I asked him. 'No, you get what you see.' This is not good I argued, a mixer is supposed to have overhead. Well, not at Soundcraft. The distortion actually started at -3 dB even though the output level is listed in the manual as +27 dB. So if you want to own an $800 fuzz box you should really buy this mixer. I however payed the 15% restocking fee and got a Mackie 1402 that works great.

Guustaaf Damave

Erik J Na · May 26th, 2003, 09:13 PM

thats very intersting to see your experience with Soundcraft. I got my PDX10 few days back, and haven't tried anything with my audio equiment yet. I have various mic preamps and boards, I'll run some tests with them, and see what happends.

Erik J Na · May 26th, 2003, 09:24 PM

is there any way to view 16:9 footage on regular 4:3 TV without compressing in the longwise direction? I thought blackbands (letterbox) would appear on the screen during playing 16:9 footage on normal TV. hate to watch compressed 16:9 movie.

Boyd Ostroff · May 26th, 2003, 10:23 PM

No, you'll need a 16:9 capable TV to watch anamorphic widescreen. If you want to letterbox your video then that's a separate step you'll need to perform in your NLE. This is sort of the whole point of 16:9, isn't it?

I have two Sony WEGA's, a 19" and a 27". They are both 4:3 sets, but the 27" has a menu option called "Enhanced 16:9" which will allow you to watch widescreen in the proper aspect ratio. It actually does a pretty good job and changes the dot pitch, not just a simple letterbox. But none of the Sony's small than 27" have this feature... I checked when I was shopping last winter.

Now if you don't want to watch regular 4:3 video on your TV there are a couple other options. Take a look at the information on "service mode" here: http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/how2adj.html#5. Once you're in this mode you can adjust the vertical size of the image to squash it down and display 16:9 in the proper proportions. Or if you have a Sony WEGA also see this link: http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/wega16x9.html which lets you enable anamorphic viewing through service mode. There are some caveats however which the author describes. And of course with either of these methods, EVERYTHING you watch on your TV will now be squashed.

Patrick Grealy · May 28th, 2003, 11:15 AM

Thanks Gustav

In the next 2 weeks, I'll be recording a Classical concert with the PDX 10 and miking the orchestra using four AT33a mixed using my Mackie 1202 VLZ XDR desk.

Will also use a SONY PC100E for auxillary camera work, i.e close ups etc.

One question, How do you synchronise your 2 cameras when filming the same sublect simultaneously?

Regrads

P

Guustaaf Damave · May 28th, 2003, 01:39 PM

In your case start them off at the start of the tape, both filming the same clapper board, then keep the camera's running until the end of the tape. To edit, capture both tapes completely, sync them up at the clapper board and you're ready to cut between the two camera's.

Graham Kolbeins · June 2nd, 2003, 10:26 PM

I just got a PDX10 today, and I was wondering... why is it that when you change it to "Memory" mode for taking pictures or whatever, the video look changes. I don't mean the resolution, I mean the look of the video itself... it's suddenly not as smooth as regular "Camera" mode and the colors look better than in Camera mode. I really like this look and I was wondering if there is anyway to record on tape looking like this... I've played around with certain settings in Camera mode and changing the shutter speed comes close to the look of Memory mode, but not quite... does anyone know of

A - the reason it looks different
B - how to achieve this look in Camera mode?

Thank you!!!! :)

May 9th, 2003, 04:52 AM	#17
Gareth Mattison New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wolverhampton UK Posts: 11	PDX10 / VX2000 - Advice Required I want to upgrade to a 3CCD model. I'm currently using a TRV25E which has served me well but I need more manual controls and want better quality sound and images. I'm looking at one of the above models but despite reading some fascinating stuff in the forums I still can't make my mind up. I like shooting in 16:9 so the pdx10 sounds great but I also like moody low-light shooting (no0t that it looks too hot on my current model) and would love to be able to create shallower DoF (which seem to be VX2000 strengths). I simply don't know of anywhere where I could try both of these models to compare so I'd love some further advice as to their strengths and weaknesses - or whether I'm too hooked on Sony and there is another manufacturer producing something that would better suit my requirements. Gareth

May 22nd, 2003, 09:23 PM	#19
Erik J Na Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut, US Posts: 29	I got my PDX10 today finally I got my PDX10 today. I would like to thank everyone on this forum for all the input, specially Boyd and Jan. it's been great helpful. I haven't try anything special yet with my new CAM, but it feels rock solid. not like my old VX1000. I found that low light performance of PDX10 is sufficient to me. ^-^ __________________ JN

May 23rd, 2003, 03:27 AM	#21
Jan Roovers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amsterdam NL -Turnhout BE Posts: 158	you will enjoy it This cam is so small that it can easily be hold overhead attached on a monopod to shoot over a crowd. i have an example here: http://www.jtv.be/JTV/captures/still...d-720x504.html By the way with a little extra weight the monopod helps as a kind of cheap steadycam. It works. __________________ ___________ Jan Roovers www.jtv.be

May 26th, 2003, 01:03 PM	#24
Guustaaf Damave New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 17	Experience with PDX10 and Soundcraft mixer A while ago I purchased two Sony DSR-PDX10 camcorders and the first thing I used them for was to record some interviews where I put them side by side, each with a different shot so I could later edit between the shots at any time. I also bought a Soundcraft Spirit M12 mixer to use it to preamp a Sennheiser MK66 and a lapel mic and distribute the signal to the line inputs of the cameras. To get an idea of how the mixer and the cameras matched level wise I ran a 1 kHz tone from a CD into the board, set the output at 0 dB on the meters and listened at the cameras with a headphone. Ouch! Distortion. Well, what can you expect from these small looking cameras, they can not handle a professional line level. I put 14 dB pads in the cables that connect the mixer to the cameras to attanuate the signal and this would surely take care of the problem. Surprise! The problem got worse. During the shoot I used the padded cables to run the signal from the mixer into the microphone inputs of the camera. Then, when I was almost ready to ship both cameras back to Sony for repair, I tried one more thing. I borrowed another mixer from a friend, a Mackie 1202. I ran the same tone into the Mackie, set the level at 0 dB and listened at the camera. Sounded good. I could only conclude that the problem was with the Soundcraft mixer. But wait! The tone sounded good at 0 dB and over through the headphone output of the Soundcraft. So I ran the main outs with a tone into the Mackie, guess what, it sounded distorted at 0 dB. So the Soundcraft mixer produced a distorted signal at the main outs at 0 dB while sounding good at the headphones. That was a particulairly nasty kind of malfunction. The vendor agreed to replace the board with another one and I immidiately checked it for this problem. Guess what? This one was broken too. I asked the vendor to repeat my test to verify that both mixers were broken, but he was 'too busy'. I got on the phone with Soundcraft. The guy I talked to seemed to have his response to this problem well prepared. He told me this was supposed to happen. No overhead? I asked him. 'No, you get what you see.' This is not good I argued, a mixer is supposed to have overhead. Well, not at Soundcraft. The distortion actually started at -3 dB even though the output level is listed in the manual as +27 dB. So if you want to own an $800 fuzz box you should really buy this mixer. I however payed the 15% restocking fee and got a Mackie 1402 that works great. Guustaaf Damave

May 26th, 2003, 09:13 PM	#25
Erik J Na Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut, US Posts: 29	thats very intersting to see your experience with Soundcraft. I got my PDX10 few days back, and haven't tried anything with my audio equiment yet. I have various mic preamps and boards, I'll run some tests with them, and see what happends. __________________ JN

May 3rd, 2003, 06:58 AM	#16
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	There may be a comparison between the PDX-10 and TRV-950, but I put some images online to compare the VX-2000 and PDX-10 at http://www.greenmist.com/pdx10. I've never used a 950 but have seen a variety of posts like Jeff's that say it does 16:9 by cropping.

May 9th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#18
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	A lot has already been said on this topic. I own both cameras and they each have their strengths. Instead of repeating my earlier comments, you might browse through the following search results first http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.ph...der=descending. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions for you either here or by e-mail.

May 22nd, 2003, 10:58 PM	#20
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Congrats! Hope you enjoy your PDX cam. They are very popular here in Vancouver.

May 23rd, 2003, 03:58 AM	#22
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Though I prefer a GL2 or Pana 3-chip hand-held for hand held shots because they are better balanced. That includes the Pana's 24P. But nice cam, nevertheless!

May 23rd, 2003, 07:37 AM	#23
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Congratulations Erik! Have fun and be sure to report back to us after you've put the camera through its paces!

May 26th, 2003, 09:24 PM	#26
Erik J Na Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Connecticut, US Posts: 29	PDX10 16:9 on 4:3 TV is there any way to view 16:9 footage on regular 4:3 TV without compressing in the longwise direction? I thought blackbands (letterbox) would appear on the screen during playing 16:9 footage on normal TV. hate to watch compressed 16:9 movie. __________________ JN

May 26th, 2003, 10:23 PM	#27
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	No, you'll need a 16:9 capable TV to watch anamorphic widescreen. If you want to letterbox your video then that's a separate step you'll need to perform in your NLE. This is sort of the whole point of 16:9, isn't it? I have two Sony WEGA's, a 19" and a 27". They are both 4:3 sets, but the 27" has a menu option called "Enhanced 16:9" which will allow you to watch widescreen in the proper aspect ratio. It actually does a pretty good job and changes the dot pitch, not just a simple letterbox. But none of the Sony's small than 27" have this feature... I checked when I was shopping last winter. Now if you don't want to watch regular 4:3 video on your TV there are a couple other options. Take a look at the information on "service mode" here: http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/how2adj.html#5. Once you're in this mode you can adjust the vertical size of the image to squash it down and display 16:9 in the proper proportions. Or if you have a Sony WEGA also see this link: http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/wega16x9.html which lets you enable anamorphic viewing through service mode. There are some caveats however which the author describes. And of course with either of these methods, EVERYTHING you watch on your TV will now be squashed.

May 28th, 2003, 11:15 AM	#28
Patrick Grealy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 90	Thanks Gustav In the next 2 weeks, I'll be recording a Classical concert with the PDX 10 and miking the orchestra using four AT33a mixed using my Mackie 1202 VLZ XDR desk. Will also use a SONY PC100E for auxillary camera work, i.e close ups etc. One question, How do you synchronise your 2 cameras when filming the same sublect simultaneously? Regrads P __________________ Sony PDX10 by 2, DRS-11, Dual G5, FCX, DVDSP and Logic Plat. www.VarsityMusicVideo.com

May 28th, 2003, 01:39 PM	#29
Guustaaf Damave New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 17	In your case start them off at the start of the tape, both filming the same clapper board, then keep the camera's running until the end of the tape. To edit, capture both tapes completely, sync them up at the clapper board and you're ready to cut between the two camera's.

June 2nd, 2003, 10:26 PM	#30
Graham Kolbeins Tourist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3	PDX10 Camera and Memory modes I just got a PDX10 today, and I was wondering... why is it that when you change it to "Memory" mode for taking pictures or whatever, the video look changes. I don't mean the resolution, I mean the look of the video itself... it's suddenly not as smooth as regular "Camera" mode and the colors look better than in Camera mode. I really like this look and I was wondering if there is anyway to record on tape looking like this... I've played around with certain settings in Camera mode and changing the shutter speed comes close to the look of Memory mode, but not quite... does anyone know of A - the reason it looks different B - how to achieve this look in Camera mode? Thank you!!!! :)