Any word on successor to the PDX10? at DVinfo.net

Paul Chun · October 29th, 2004, 01:50 PM

Anyone hear about any new Sony camera that will eventually replace the PDX10? I would like to purchase a nice 3 chip camera that is small and portable for traveling in addition to my PD170 but don't want to buy it now only to have Sony come out with something else 2 months from now.

Boyd Ostroff · October 30th, 2004, 12:17 AM

There is no official word on this, but it has been speculated that there will not be a replacement as Sony will begin slanting the prosumer cameras towards HDV...

John Jay · October 30th, 2004, 10:42 AM

I think that SONY can never be second guessed.

Just when we thought the world was reverting to Canovision, up they pop with a HDV Power Drill (although it more resembles a LOS ANGELES classkiller submarine than even I had envisaged)

Maybe there can only be only one ParaDoX ...

However there are a couple of things they could do with the PDX and the devil's advocate the 950.

1 Replace the DV encoding board with a HDV variant.

2 Re-write the firmware to encode to 720p

Megapixel 3CCD allows this of course, let us not forget the firewire experiment.

You can be sure the folks at SONY know how to do this.

After all a HDVPDX may be preferred over a current JVC if push comes to shove?

and besides you would have a nice clean product range from HDV950 to HD950.

Maybe a factory refit is possible to reward the folks that purchased the PDX and 950 -- after all -- those profits were used to fund FX1 development were they not?

Enjoy Life!

Tom Hardwick · October 30th, 2004, 12:35 PM

I can't help thinking that as the 1000 has replaced the 950, there must be a PDX20 variant waiting in the wings. Just maybe Sony are watching the sales charts of the PDX10 and looking at the competition. Is there a Canon or Panasonic to bother the PDX10? I think not, especially at the price. But this has never stopped Sony dumping perfectl;y good models in the past, and they've always tried to leapfrog the compettition and subdivide any niche. So yes, I'd say the PDX10's days are numbered.

tom.

John Jay · October 30th, 2004, 12:49 PM

"So yes, I'd say the PDX10's days are numbered."

Well I believe you have been saying that from day one Tom, hard to ignore your bashing of this camera over the last two years (unfair to purchasors of this camera in many ways)

My money is still on swapping a board and firmware for an already proven production line. (s)

Tom Hardwick · October 30th, 2004, 01:18 PM

I'm sorry you feel I've been 'bashing this camera' John. I always give credit where it's due and I'm quick to say how much I like very many aspects of the PDX10. For the money it gives simply amazingly good results, and I've always said this. How this can be 'unfair to purchasers of this camera' I'm not sure, and I'm strongly of the opinion that to be fore-warned is always to be fore-armed.

The VX2k group may also think I'm being tough on the VX/PD's failings (of which there are many). But overall I'm impressed with 99% of everything Sony do, and I'm the first to admit that we've never ever had it so good, so cheap, so sharp, so compact, so available.

But the PDX10's days are surely numbered, in the same way as mine are. As George Harrison said, "All things must pass".

tom.

John Jay · October 30th, 2004, 01:37 PM

Tom,

Being selective is no excuse, the fact is that DV's days are numbered

A case in point is that SONY Japan are only prepared to allow a ~£600 trade-in on your beloved VX2000 so long as it was purchased after 2002 and that offer expires at the end of November.

Giving advice to people that they should consider a VX2000 instead of a PDX10 as you have done so many times at this level of the board is now a qualitative issue dont you think?

Tom Hardwick · October 30th, 2004, 02:01 PM

John, I've been around long enough to know when I'm reading a ''test'' of a camcorder that isn't a test at all - it's simply someone re-writing the side of the cardboard box the kit came in. I try and squeeze blood from any camcorder that comes my way, and I'm not afraid to bullet point the good, bad and ugly results. I'm often asked to recommend kit, but I never pass recomendation on anything that I haven't used and abused myself.

I didn't know about this Sony trade-in deal on the VX2k1 - can you tell me more please? Is this in response to the FX1's introduction maybe?

And don't you think that I should give advice to people that they consider the VX if they have PDX10 money to spend? Is that unethetical in some way? If their specifications include a huge touch-sensitive side-screen, compactness and ace 16:9 footage, there's no way I'd point them at the VX/PD.

Same with the Panasonic DVX100A My time with that camera means I can heartily recommend it to anyone who hates having to constanty attach and detach a wide-angle converter as any Sony owner has to. But as will all things in life there are prices to pay, and in the latter's case the 45mm max focal length is no match for Sony's 72mm.

tom.

John Jay · October 31st, 2004, 11:14 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Hardwick : John, I've been around long enough to know when I'm reading a ''test'' of a camcorder that isn't a test at all - it's simply someone re-writing the side of the cardboard box the kit came in. I try and squeeze blood from any camcorder that comes my way, and I'm not afraid to bullet point the good, bad and ugly results. I'm often asked to recommend kit, but I never pass recomendation on anything that I haven't used and abused myself.

With respect Tom, putting reviews aside, my concern is with your posts where I feel your flavour is "damned by feint praise". I think Boyd gives a more balanced view in this regard. You concentrate on your perceived weakness's in the camera without giving equal strength to the cameras strong points. It is quite obvious that YOU do not percieve its many plus points as important whereas there are many of us that do

For example when low light is mentioned, the usual suggestion to consider a VX2000 is inevitably made. A balanced view would be to include the suggestion of a good top light. There have been many instances where I have shot in low-key lighting as found in pubs, clubs and restaurants where even a VX2000 could not be used without a top light - so no real advantage there.

I feel that using "poor low light performance" or a worse description for this cam is unfair. If Sony described the PDX as 1 lux and it wasnt then you would have good cause to complain.

I didn't know about this Sony trade-in deal on the VX2k1 - can you tell me more please? Is this in response to the FX1's introduction maybe?

Yes the offer was/is related to the FX1, Sony are offering a 120,00Yen (~£600) trade in specifically to the old VX2000, check with Sony Japan for details

And don't you think that I should give advice to people that they consider the VX if they have PDX10 money to spend? Is that unethetical in some way? If their specifications include a huge touch-sensitive side-screen, compactness and ace 16:9 footage, there's no way I'd point them at the VX/PD.

Thats good to know. "However if low light is important to you".... why o why are you not posting in the Canon XLx forums telling those to consider a VX2000? Perhaps you couldnt stand the heat ?

Same with the Panasonic DVX100A My time with that camera means I can heartily recommend it to anyone who hates having to constanty attach and detach a wide-angle converter as any Sony owner has to. But as will all things in life there are prices to pay, and in the latter's case the 45mm max focal length is no match for Sony's 72mm.

OFF Topic, but some people I know dont like the video noise.

Tom Hardwick · October 31st, 2004, 12:11 PM

Good points John, and I take them on board. It's maybe too easy to get the impression that I'm against this cam whereas I have a good friend who got one on my recommendation and he's delighted with it. You're right about the top light in pubs as well, but there are times - weddings especially - when on-board lighting is inappropriate and evey little bit of low light ability is welcome. I do in fact use the DW2 20 + 20w light on my cameras.

I've often been over and contributed at the XL1/s forum but I must admit that not having used (or even seen) the XL2 I don't feel I have any authority to suggest that the VX/PD is in any way superior.

tom.

John Jay · October 31st, 2004, 01:06 PM

Yes that light is good

When used with a bracket with a top ball joint, the light can be used in "landscape" mode giving excellent 16:9 coverage

Boyd Ostroff · October 31st, 2004, 01:56 PM

John raises some valid points here, but I think Tom also makes regular contributions which are valuable. I would only add the disclaimer that - by his own admission - Tom only had a PDX-10 for a short while to evaluate. The more time you spend with this (or any) camera you come up with various tricks to compensate for some of the shortcomings.

As a moderator I would just like to remind everyone to keep the discussion friendly, as it has been so far...

Tom Hardwick · November 1st, 2004, 01:11 AM

Yup, we're all friends here : -) And I'm pleased to have some impartiality knocked into me once in a while.
I too looked at using the 20+20 in the 'landscape' position John as I have one of those twiddly hot shoe adaptors. But I was concerned by the fact that the lamp cooling is done purely by convection, and in landscape mode I feared that the natural flow of hot air would be impeded.

The unit can get quite warm if on for long speeches, so I use the light in portrait mode but with a Lumiquest diffuser velcroed in place. That increases the covering power amazingly, as well as softening the shadows, but of course robs you of quite a bit of light.

tom.

October 29th, 2004, 01:50 PM	#1
Paul Chun Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 132	Any word on successor to the PDX10? Anyone hear about any new Sony camera that will eventually replace the PDX10? I would like to purchase a nice 3 chip camera that is small and portable for traveling in addition to my PD170 but don't want to buy it now only to have Sony come out with something else 2 months from now.

October 30th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#3
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	I think that SONY can never be second guessed. Just when we thought the world was reverting to Canovision, up they pop with a HDV Power Drill (although it more resembles a LOS ANGELES classkiller submarine than even I had envisaged) Maybe there can only be only one ParaDoX ... However there are a couple of things they could do with the PDX and the devil's advocate the 950. 1 Replace the DV encoding board with a HDV variant. 2 Re-write the firmware to encode to 720p Megapixel 3CCD allows this of course, let us not forget the firewire experiment. You can be sure the folks at SONY know how to do this. After all a HDVPDX may be preferred over a current JVC if push comes to shove? and besides you would have a nice clean product range from HDV950 to HD950. Maybe a factory refit is possible to reward the folks that purchased the PDX and 950 -- after all -- those profits were used to fund FX1 development were they not? Enjoy Life! __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

October 30th, 2004, 12:49 PM	#5
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	"So yes, I'd say the PDX10's days are numbered." Well I believe you have been saying that from day one Tom, hard to ignore your bashing of this camera over the last two years (unfair to purchasors of this camera in many ways) My money is still on swapping a board and firmware for an already proven production line. (s) __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

October 30th, 2004, 01:37 PM	#7
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Tom, Being selective is no excuse, the fact is that DV's days are numbered A case in point is that SONY Japan are only prepared to allow a ~£600 trade-in on your beloved VX2000 so long as it was purchased after 2002 and that offer expires at the end of November. Giving advice to people that they should consider a VX2000 instead of a PDX10 as you have done so many times at this level of the board is now a qualitative issue dont you think? __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

October 31st, 2004, 11:14 AM	#9
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Hardwick : John, I've been around long enough to know when I'm reading a ''test'' of a camcorder that isn't a test at all - it's simply someone re-writing the side of the cardboard box the kit came in. I try and squeeze blood from any camcorder that comes my way, and I'm not afraid to bullet point the good, bad and ugly results. I'm often asked to recommend kit, but I never pass recomendation on anything that I haven't used and abused myself. With respect Tom, putting reviews aside, my concern is with your posts where I feel your flavour is "damned by feint praise". I think Boyd gives a more balanced view in this regard. You concentrate on your perceived weakness's in the camera without giving equal strength to the cameras strong points. It is quite obvious that YOU do not percieve its many plus points as important whereas there are many of us that do For example when low light is mentioned, the usual suggestion to consider a VX2000 is inevitably made. A balanced view would be to include the suggestion of a good top light. There have been many instances where I have shot in low-key lighting as found in pubs, clubs and restaurants where even a VX2000 could not be used without a top light - so no real advantage there. I feel that using "poor low light performance" or a worse description for this cam is unfair. If Sony described the PDX as 1 lux and it wasnt then you would have good cause to complain. I didn't know about this Sony trade-in deal on the VX2k1 - can you tell me more please? Is this in response to the FX1's introduction maybe? Yes the offer was/is related to the FX1, Sony are offering a 120,00Yen (~£600) trade in specifically to the old VX2000, check with Sony Japan for details And don't you think that I should give advice to people that they consider the VX if they have PDX10 money to spend? Is that unethetical in some way? If their specifications include a huge touch-sensitive side-screen, compactness and ace 16:9 footage, there's no way I'd point them at the VX/PD. Thats good to know. "However if low light is important to you".... why o why are you not posting in the Canon XLx forums telling those to consider a VX2000? Perhaps you couldnt stand the heat ? Same with the Panasonic DVX100A My time with that camera means I can heartily recommend it to anyone who hates having to constanty attach and detach a wide-angle converter as any Sony owner has to. But as will all things in life there are prices to pay, and in the latter's case the 45mm max focal length is no match for Sony's 72mm. OFF Topic, but some people I know dont like the video noise. __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

October 30th, 2004, 12:17 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	There is no official word on this, but it has been speculated that there will not be a replacement as Sony will begin slanting the prosumer cameras towards HDV...

October 30th, 2004, 12:35 PM	#4
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I can't help thinking that as the 1000 has replaced the 950, there must be a PDX20 variant waiting in the wings. Just maybe Sony are watching the sales charts of the PDX10 and looking at the competition. Is there a Canon or Panasonic to bother the PDX10? I think not, especially at the price. But this has never stopped Sony dumping perfectl;y good models in the past, and they've always tried to leapfrog the compettition and subdivide any niche. So yes, I'd say the PDX10's days are numbered. tom.

October 30th, 2004, 01:18 PM	#6
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I'm sorry you feel I've been 'bashing this camera' John. I always give credit where it's due and I'm quick to say how much I like very many aspects of the PDX10. For the money it gives simply amazingly good results, and I've always said this. How this can be 'unfair to purchasers of this camera' I'm not sure, and I'm strongly of the opinion that to be fore-warned is always to be fore-armed. The VX2k group may also think I'm being tough on the VX/PD's failings (of which there are many). But overall I'm impressed with 99% of everything Sony do, and I'm the first to admit that we've never ever had it so good, so cheap, so sharp, so compact, so available. But the PDX10's days are surely numbered, in the same way as mine are. As George Harrison said, "All things must pass". tom.

October 30th, 2004, 02:01 PM	#8
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	John, I've been around long enough to know when I'm reading a ''test'' of a camcorder that isn't a test at all - it's simply someone re-writing the side of the cardboard box the kit came in. I try and squeeze blood from any camcorder that comes my way, and I'm not afraid to bullet point the good, bad and ugly results. I'm often asked to recommend kit, but I never pass recomendation on anything that I haven't used and abused myself. I didn't know about this Sony trade-in deal on the VX2k1 - can you tell me more please? Is this in response to the FX1's introduction maybe? And don't you think that I should give advice to people that they consider the VX if they have PDX10 money to spend? Is that unethetical in some way? If their specifications include a huge touch-sensitive side-screen, compactness and ace 16:9 footage, there's no way I'd point them at the VX/PD. Same with the Panasonic DVX100A My time with that camera means I can heartily recommend it to anyone who hates having to constanty attach and detach a wide-angle converter as any Sony owner has to. But as will all things in life there are prices to pay, and in the latter's case the 45mm max focal length is no match for Sony's 72mm. tom.

October 31st, 2004, 12:11 PM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Good points John, and I take them on board. It's maybe too easy to get the impression that I'm against this cam whereas I have a good friend who got one on my recommendation and he's delighted with it. You're right about the top light in pubs as well, but there are times - weddings especially - when on-board lighting is inappropriate and evey little bit of low light ability is welcome. I do in fact use the DW2 20 + 20w light on my cameras. I've often been over and contributed at the XL1/s forum but I must admit that not having used (or even seen) the XL2 I don't feel I have any authority to suggest that the VX/PD is in any way superior. tom.

October 31st, 2004, 01:06 PM	#11
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Yes that light is good When used with a bracket with a top ball joint, the light can be used in "landscape" mode giving excellent 16:9 coverage __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

October 31st, 2004, 01:56 PM	#12
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	John raises some valid points here, but I think Tom also makes regular contributions which are valuable. I would only add the disclaimer that - by his own admission - Tom only had a PDX-10 for a short while to evaluate. The more time you spend with this (or any) camera you come up with various tricks to compensate for some of the shortcomings. As a moderator I would just like to remind everyone to keep the discussion friendly, as it has been so far...

November 1st, 2004, 01:11 AM	#13
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Yup, we're all friends here : -) And I'm pleased to have some impartiality knocked into me once in a while. I too looked at using the 20+20 in the 'landscape' position John as I have one of those twiddly hot shoe adaptors. But I was concerned by the fact that the lamp cooling is done purely by convection, and in landscape mode I feared that the natural flow of hot air would be impeded. The unit can get quite warm if on for long speeches, so I use the light in portrait mode but with a Lumiquest diffuser velcroed in place. That increases the covering power amazingly, as well as softening the shadows, but of course robs you of quite a bit of light. tom.