Auto-Shtr? at DVinfo.net

Ignacio Rodriguez · September 19th, 2003, 11:13 AM

Has anyone been able to figure out what the Auto-Shtr setting actually does on Sony cams? I was hoping the PDX10 being a semi pro camera would have some explanation for this in the manual.

John Jay · September 19th, 2003, 11:50 AM

Hi

x10/950 is a shutter priority cam.

auto shutter has no function

Andre De Clercq · September 19th, 2003, 04:00 PM

If one shoots in AE S mode ("AE S" prompted in the viewfinder), the shutter speed is supposed to be locked at 1/60 (or 1/50 for PAL). If scene brightness goes up, aperture closes down sometimes far beyond F11 (like up to F 35) for very bright scenes causing diffraction blur....The above situation is the case if "Auto Shtr" is being set "off" in the menu. If it is set "on" the shutter speed will go up and overrule the shutter priority setting in order to keep the F11 limit even for very bright scenes, avoiding sharpness loss by diffraction

Ignacio Rodriguez · September 19th, 2003, 08:35 PM

Andre, John, you seem to contradict each other. I will try to see empirically if what Andre suggests happens with my cam.

Alex Knappenberger · September 19th, 2003, 08:43 PM

Andre is correct, this is what most cameras do, not just Sony's.

When the aperature closes as much as it can, before being fully closed, and the picture is still over exposed, it just boosts up the shutter speed to help componsate.

Use your camera in fully manual, and you can override all of this. :D

Ignacio Rodriguez · September 19th, 2003, 08:46 PM

> Use your camera in fully manual,
> and you can override all of this. :D

Jejeje. Yes, I try too, but sometimes action is just too fast and I default to automatic and then go manual to adjust so it's nice to be able to set up automatic to work as desired. Thanks for the info.

Andre De Clercq · September 20th, 2003, 03:37 AM

Ignacio, sorry, I was only partly right...too long ago I verified ...and too late yesterday night. The auto shtr action is only valid in full auto mode, so no AE S prompt.(AE S is never being overruled if prompted). You can verify the action through the data code when playing back the following : shoot in full auto (nothing prompted) with auto shtr "on" in the menu. First to a dark scene and then point to a bright scene (eventually ignore the ND prompts). Do the same with the auto shtr "off". In the first case you will see the shtr speed changing. In the auto shtr "off" case you will see the shtr speed locked at 1/60 (1/50). The data code will still show F11 but this has no relevance in this case.

John Jay · September 20th, 2003, 11:13 AM

I checked the function of my x10/950s today as follows

1 turn auto shutter on via menu
2 choose manual mode (centre detent)
3 move to f2.0 space
4 press exposure button to clamp aperture f2.0 ish
5 confirm correct exposure at f2.0
6 move to f16.0 space
7 observe total whiteout in viewfinder or LCD

Conclusion

Auto Shutter has no function since the shutter speed remains at default in this realistic scenario

what the x10/950 does at the far reaches of the envelope has no practical useful purpose for me

Andre De Clercq · September 20th, 2003, 01:11 PM

Strange test , and strange conclusion John...Why do you think Sony is including this feature? For " no practical use"? Plse try what I explained in my second post and maybe you'll change yr mind.

Boyd Ostroff · September 20th, 2003, 01:42 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre De Clercq :(eventually ignore the ND prompts) -->>>

What camera are you using? The PDX-10 does not have ND filters and never prompts (at least mine never has). My VX-2000 does prompt to use the builtin ND filters however.

BTW, this auto shutter thing was discussed at length in the PD-150/VX-2000 group awhile back. It became a rather heated debate in fact with people getting rather testy... interesting, history seems to be repeating itself here ;-)

I only use manual mode on the PDX-10, and came to the conclusion that auto shutter setting had no effect whatsoever on that. But if someone can demonstrate there's an advantage to turning it either on or off while using manual mode then I'd be interested.

Andre De Clercq · September 20th, 2003, 01:57 PM

Right Boyd "auto shtr" isn't meant for manual settings and AE S. In some conditions, some people like to shoot in auto mode and there, Sony offers you the choice, or keep full dutycycle (1/60) with the risk of getting diffraction effects (sharpness loss) or choppyness at higher shutter speeds. Thats why the auto shtr setting is there...

Ignacio Rodriguez · September 21st, 2003, 01:08 PM

> Sony offers you the choice, or keep full dutycycle (1/60)
> with the risk of getting diffraction effects (sharpness loss)
> or choppyness at higher shutter speeds

Thank You Andre. This makes a lot of sense.

Great place this is. Thank You all.

Keep the peace,

--
i.

September 19th, 2003, 11:13 AM	#1
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Auto-Shtr? Has anyone been able to figure out what the Auto-Shtr setting actually does on Sony cams? I was hoping the PDX10 being a semi pro camera would have some explanation for this in the manual. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

September 19th, 2003, 11:50 AM	#2
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Hi x10/950 is a shutter priority cam. auto shutter has no function __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 19th, 2003, 08:35 PM	#4
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Contradiction? Andre, John, you seem to contradict each other. I will try to see empirically if what Andre suggests happens with my cam. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

September 19th, 2003, 08:46 PM	#6
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Fully manual > Use your camera in fully manual, > and you can override all of this. :D Jejeje. Yes, I try too, but sometimes action is just too fast and I default to automatic and then go manual to adjust so it's nice to be able to set up automatic to work as desired. Thanks for the info. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

September 20th, 2003, 11:13 AM	#8
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	I checked the function of my x10/950s today as follows 1 turn auto shutter on via menu 2 choose manual mode (centre detent) 3 move to f2.0 space 4 press exposure button to clamp aperture f2.0 ish 5 confirm correct exposure at f2.0 6 move to f16.0 space 7 observe total whiteout in viewfinder or LCD Conclusion Auto Shutter has no function since the shutter speed remains at default in this realistic scenario what the x10/950 does at the far reaches of the envelope has no practical useful purpose for me __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 19th, 2003, 04:00 PM	#3
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	If one shoots in AE S mode ("AE S" prompted in the viewfinder), the shutter speed is supposed to be locked at 1/60 (or 1/50 for PAL). If scene brightness goes up, aperture closes down sometimes far beyond F11 (like up to F 35) for very bright scenes causing diffraction blur....The above situation is the case if "Auto Shtr" is being set "off" in the menu. If it is set "on" the shutter speed will go up and overrule the shutter priority setting in order to keep the F11 limit even for very bright scenes, avoiding sharpness loss by diffraction

September 19th, 2003, 08:43 PM	#5
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Andre is correct, this is what most cameras do, not just Sony's. When the aperature closes as much as it can, before being fully closed, and the picture is still over exposed, it just boosts up the shutter speed to help componsate. Use your camera in fully manual, and you can override all of this. :D

September 20th, 2003, 03:37 AM	#7
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Ignacio, sorry, I was only partly right...too long ago I verified ...and too late yesterday night. The auto shtr action is only valid in full auto mode, so no AE S prompt.(AE S is never being overruled if prompted). You can verify the action through the data code when playing back the following : shoot in full auto (nothing prompted) with auto shtr "on" in the menu. First to a dark scene and then point to a bright scene (eventually ignore the ND prompts). Do the same with the auto shtr "off". In the first case you will see the shtr speed changing. In the auto shtr "off" case you will see the shtr speed locked at 1/60 (1/50). The data code will still show F11 but this has no relevance in this case.

September 20th, 2003, 01:11 PM	#9
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Strange test , and strange conclusion John...Why do you think Sony is including this feature? For " no practical use"? Plse try what I explained in my second post and maybe you'll change yr mind.

September 20th, 2003, 01:42 PM	#10
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	<<<-- Originally posted by Andre De Clercq :(eventually ignore the ND prompts) -->>> What camera are you using? The PDX-10 does not have ND filters and never prompts (at least mine never has). My VX-2000 does prompt to use the builtin ND filters however. BTW, this auto shutter thing was discussed at length in the PD-150/VX-2000 group awhile back. It became a rather heated debate in fact with people getting rather testy... interesting, history seems to be repeating itself here ;-) I only use manual mode on the PDX-10, and came to the conclusion that auto shutter setting had no effect whatsoever on that. But if someone can demonstrate there's an advantage to turning it either on or off while using manual mode then I'd be interested.

September 20th, 2003, 01:57 PM	#11
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	Right Boyd "auto shtr" isn't meant for manual settings and AE S. In some conditions, some people like to shoot in auto mode and there, Sony offers you the choice, or keep full dutycycle (1/60) with the risk of getting diffraction effects (sharpness loss) or choppyness at higher shutter speeds. Thats why the auto shtr setting is there...

September 21st, 2003, 01:08 PM	#12
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Yes > Sony offers you the choice, or keep full dutycycle (1/60) > with the risk of getting diffraction effects (sharpness loss) > or choppyness at higher shutter speeds Thank You Andre. This makes a lot of sense. Great place this is. Thank You all. Keep the peace, -- i. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.