TRV950 -- various questions at DVinfo.net

Robin D. Love · November 23rd, 2002, 10:52 AM

Hit me with it: Should I go TRV950 or MX5000?

I've been unable to find a direct side-by-side comparision between the two cameras, so I look to the Group for some direct (read: unbiased, if possible) feedback for my purchase decision. When choosing, I've got a couple of considerations:

1. Japanese Menus - At first, I thought Japanese menus would be no problem, but - yikes - they're scary! I've seen the English translations, but changing settings on-the-fly during a fluid shoot situation seems fraught with disaster ...

2. Sony Accessories - I already own a Sony TRV99 Hi8 camcorder (5 years old), so some of the batteries, mics and lenses would likely work on the TRV950, but not on the MX5000.

I've scoured the groups and www.supervideo.com.

Thx! RL

Steven Forrest · November 25th, 2002, 06:42 PM

See my VX2000 system at this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4761
if you are interested in the VX2000 instead of one of the others.
Steven Forrest

Frank Granovski · November 25th, 2002, 10:27 PM

Yes, the VX2000 is a fantastic cam for the money, today. Regarding your question, I'm not you, but I would go for the MX5000 over the TRV950, and just get used to the Japanese menus. This will take some time, however.

I've used the TRV900 pro version, own a MX300, played with the TRV950, and have read my eyes red figuring which I think is better and which one I like better. In other news from Japan, the MX5000 is outselling the TRV950 by 10 to 1. And..., I did like the TRV900/PD100A a whole lot better than the newer TRV950. (I haven't seen a PDX10 yet, and don't care too.) This is my opinion.

For a better opinion, contact:

sales@cameraaction.au

and ask them which is better, the TRV950 or the MX500. They sell both.

Kenn Jolemore · November 26th, 2002, 05:02 AM

well , so much for unabashed indifference .
The 950 uses M series batteries and is threaded to fit 37mm filters and lenses if that helps a bit . I own a 950 and it is a fairly good camcorder from my work with it.
There is a japanese page that alledgedly compairs about 5 camera's but it is pretty dubious IMO. Perhaps someone will post the link as I errased it awhile back dut to my oppinion of it's veracity.
KennJ

Frank Granovski · November 26th, 2002, 01:27 PM

Kenn, I think the TRV950 is good, solid cam. It just never did anything for me whereas the PD100A did. The main problem I have with the TRV950 is that I couldn't get a grip with it. It was slipping out of my hand, while pulling forward and to the left. After this, I stopped trying to take it for a test drive. The specs are good though, and I have read mixed reviews about the video image. With the MX300, it is lighter and easier to hold, thus a truer, "hand-held." This is my opinion only. I think the TRV950 is a good, smaller tripod cam. Even with the larger GL2, this Canon is a joy to hold while operating (for me).

Frank Granovski · December 3rd, 2002, 03:23 AM

Welcome to the forums, John Beale. As an enthusiast of the Sony TRV900, what is your take on the new TRV950?

Sincerely,
From one of your regular visitors! (great website)

PS: I read the informative reviews on your website:

http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv950/trv950.html

Frank Granovski · December 22nd, 2002, 05:39 PM

Stupid me. Your take is all here on your TRV950 page!

http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv950/trv950.html

Now my next question..., did you sell your TRV900 and buy the TRV950? (I'm debating a similar matter, should I sell my MX300 to buy a MX500?)

When will the madness end. I save up for something, buy it, then shortly thereafter out comes a newer, better model. It ain't fair, I tell you.

Vanja Marin · January 14th, 2003, 07:37 PM

Hey there!

I am new one in owning 940E/950. And, to make it worse, I didn't get my user manual packed in retail box.
However, I've been reading about SHUTER SPEED in some posts here, but there are some basics about it that I don't understand...

I thought SHUTTER SPEED is function to be used only for shooting STILLS... Obviously, I was wrong...

Can someone explain it to me? But slowly, from begining!

What is it?
What does it do to taped material?
And how exactly can it help you make "Slowmotion", mentiond few posts below???

Thnx!
Vanja

Rob Lohman · January 15th, 2003, 04:53 AM

I can't exactly explain to you how it works (someone else will
fill in on that I hope). I did a search on it, since it has been
explained before, but I couldn't find anything in a short time.

The lower the shutter speed the more things begin to strobe
and if your camera moves or something moves the more everything
starts to get blurry. The higher the shutter speed the less
strobing and blurring and everything will look crystal clear.

So a 1/25th shutter will have more strobing/blurring than a
1/50th or 1/100th shutter (these are PAL examples).

Most people use 1/25th or 1/50th shutter for PAL film "mode"...

For slow motion you want an higher shutter speed so that
the images become much clearer (much better if you are going
to slow the footage down in your editing application!). So I'd
use 1/100 or more. Ofcourse this might mean you need to add
more light or change Iris or f-stop to compensate for the darkening
of your picture.

As always: playing around with one setting at a time and looking
at the resulting footage is a good way to learn what everything
does visually!

Vanja Marin · January 15th, 2003, 06:35 AM

OK, I tried recording in all shuter speed modes and I got pretty fine picture of what happens when I change them...

But, the higer number, the picture gets much darker, and in shutter mode, I can't adjust Exposure...
Does it mean I have to light the scene with stand alone lights???
Or is there a trick?

And more important Q;

When I turned DATA CODE on (pressed it twice), I get the info of !1: AUTO/MANUAL MODE; 2.SHUTTER SPEED; 3.WHITE BALANCE MODE; 4. F. <some number> MODE; 5. GAIN MODE (18-0DB)

I don't get numbers 4 and 5...

What does this F <number< mean - what do I adjust with it?
And what do those DB 18-0 mean - I thought it has to do with audio gain, but I noticed it changes sometimes when I change exposure... But, other times when I change exposure it stays still - I always work in MANUAL mode...

Rob Lohman · January 15th, 2003, 08:22 AM

Vanja,

I'm not familiair with your camera since I myself have a Canon
XL1s. So I cannot tell you where something is located or how
to operate a certain feature. I hope others with your camera will
chime in and give you those answers!

I don't know why you cannot change your exposure. If my XL1s
is in full manual I can adjust Shutter speed and Exposure (iris,
f-stop) exactly as I want.

The iris, exposure or f-stop changes how open or close the lens
is and therefor how much light is being let through. f2.0 is very
open f15 is very closed (on my camera). This changes the light
being let through (exposure).

So your F number is the exposure. The last one GAIN mode is
what your camera does to the signal after it has been captured
by the CCD's. This allows you to boost the signal (introducing
noise) or lower it. The best is to set this at the lowest possible
setting to not introduce noise (ar as least as possible). My camera
is either at 0 db or -3 db (yes, negative). It never goes above 0
(unless I'm shooting and night and want to see something).
If possible I add light if my shutter/exposure doesn't allow for
a good enough picture.

Audio gain is something different. Your camere might also have
an AUTO GAIN mode. In which the camera decicdes for itself which
gain level it should use. I never use it since I don't want grain
or that it changes the setting whilst recording my scenes! That's
why everything is on manual (my whitebalance usually is on auto
though, on sometimes my focuse too)

I hope this explains it a bit more!

Vanja Marin · January 15th, 2003, 09:34 AM

Thanx again!
I've visited urbanfox.tv site and all of those matters are really explainde well there...
And now, for the first time, I AM LITTLE DISAPOINTED in my DRV950...

WHY??
First of all... You can't manualy adjust IRIS...which is conected to F-points at 950...
It can be just in automatic, backlite, or spotlight modes

EXPOSURE changes only GAIN values (dB)... when you set it to MANUAL, darker you go, biger is value...(or vice versa, I forgot now - doesn't matter).

And SHUTER SPEED can be manualy adjusted only when SHUTER is on AUTOMATIC....

But THE WORST is that all those settings - when in CAMERA STNDBY mode - in actually SETTING THOSE VALUES - you don't see numbers....
Just some scales....

Only when you're done recording, you can see exact numbers of db, F-spots, Shuter, WB-Mode....

Why is it so??? Ican't belive it....
Can someone give me a good reason???
Or even better, tell me I'm wrong! I'd love it!
:(

Rob Lohman · January 15th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Vanja,

As stated earlier I do not know your camera, so I cannot
help you with these device specific questions. I have send a
notice to the other forum moderators to take a look at the thread
and I hope that will get you some more help.

Sorry! Hope you find what you are looking for.

Frank Granovski · January 17th, 2003, 04:52 AM

You really have to study the manual and play with the cam to get familar with it. A word of advice: get to know the cam before actually buying it. This way you will know what to expect. I have read about this cam's limitations. This shouldn't stop you from recording great video with it, however.

January 17th, 2003, 01:53 PM

Ok, I have my new TRV950. Early play confirms that I don't want to use the built in mics unless I have no other option, so I'm in the market for mics.

For what I shoot, I think that a decent shotgun and two wireless lavs (I think that term refers to lapel mics connected to a belt-mounted wireless transmitter, but please correct me if I'm wrong) should be enough, so I thought I'd field some opinions here. :-)

I intend to pick up a Beachtek XLR adapter (the DXA-4S), so I can use "real" mics. B&H has it for $170. Safe to assume I connect the shotgun to the adapter with the shortest XLR calbe I can find, such as this 1.5' one? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh5.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___248818___AUAT83141.5___REG___CatID=4174___ SID=F303B6FB680

So far, for a shotgun, I'm leaning towards the Azden SGM-1X. Even though the SGM-X doesn't require the Beachtek adapter (and might therefore be more transportable and handier for quick shots or even vacation use), I think I want better than bottom end stuff like that. Also, it doesn't have a shock mount and will be a lot more sensitive to any handling noise. Similar concerns (no shock mount, no XLR) have led me to eliminate the Sennheiser MKE-300, although I've heard the audio quality is excellent.

The size of the SGM-1X also fits well in my case (so I don't want anything too much longer), and it comes with the shock mount. And it's fairly reasonable, too ($150 at B&H).

I've heard the Azden shotgun is not a truly stellar mic, but it should get the job done, yes? Is there anything better in that price range? I'm willing to spend more, within reason (don't go bother telling me how great Sennheiser's MKH 70's are, for instance!).

As for lavs, I guess the Azden WR22-LL Pro stuff looks somewhat interesting (I'm sure I'll want at least two lavs running, so the entry level WDR-Pro is out), but I'm not married to the idea. The cost is in my range, at approx $350 for the receiver plus 2 lapel mics.

For the record, I do indeed see that I can't have all three mics (2 lavs + shotgun) plugged into the Beachtek unit at the same time. I doubt that will be an issue, as 2 mics should be enough for my needs in most situations. If I ever need more than that, I'll just pick up a portable mixer.

Any tips or suggestions to get me started?

November 23rd, 2002, 10:52 AM	#1
Robin D. Love New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 5	TRV950 -- various questions Hit me with it: Should I go TRV950 or MX5000? I've been unable to find a direct side-by-side comparision between the two cameras, so I look to the Group for some direct (read: unbiased, if possible) feedback for my purchase decision. When choosing, I've got a couple of considerations: 1. Japanese Menus - At first, I thought Japanese menus would be no problem, but - yikes - they're scary! I've seen the English translations, but changing settings on-the-fly during a fluid shoot situation seems fraught with disaster ... 2. Sony Accessories - I already own a Sony TRV99 Hi8 camcorder (5 years old), so some of the batteries, mics and lenses would likely work on the TRV950, but not on the MX5000. I've scoured the groups and www.supervideo.com. Thx! RL

November 26th, 2002, 05:02 AM	#4
Kenn Jolemore Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: norfolk Va. Posts: 124	well , so much for unabashed indifference . The 950 uses M series batteries and is threaded to fit 37mm filters and lenses if that helps a bit . I own a 950 and it is a fairly good camcorder from my work with it. There is a japanese page that alledgedly compairs about 5 camera's but it is pretty dubious IMO. Perhaps someone will post the link as I errased it awhile back dut to my oppinion of it's veracity. KennJ __________________ KennJ

December 3rd, 2002, 03:23 AM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	John, what is your take on the TRV950? Welcome to the forums, John Beale. As an enthusiast of the Sony TRV900, what is your take on the new TRV950? Sincerely, From one of your regular visitors! (great website) PS: I read the informative reviews on your website: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv950/trv950.html

January 14th, 2003, 07:37 PM	#8
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	?Shutter Speed Question? Hey there! I am new one in owning 940E/950. And, to make it worse, I didn't get my user manual packed in retail box. However, I've been reading about SHUTER SPEED in some posts here, but there are some basics about it that I don't understand... I thought SHUTTER SPEED is function to be used only for shooting STILLS... Obviously, I was wrong... Can someone explain it to me? But slowly, from begining! What is it? What does it do to taped material? And how exactly can it help you make "Slowmotion", mentiond few posts below??? Thnx! Vanja

January 15th, 2003, 04:53 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I can't exactly explain to you how it works (someone else will fill in on that I hope). I did a search on it, since it has been explained before, but I couldn't find anything in a short time. The lower the shutter speed the more things begin to strobe and if your camera moves or something moves the more everything starts to get blurry. The higher the shutter speed the less strobing and blurring and everything will look crystal clear. So a 1/25th shutter will have more strobing/blurring than a 1/50th or 1/100th shutter (these are PAL examples). Most people use 1/25th or 1/50th shutter for PAL film "mode"... For slow motion you want an higher shutter speed so that the images become much clearer (much better if you are going to slow the footage down in your editing application!). So I'd use 1/100 or more. Ofcourse this might mean you need to add more light or change Iris or f-stop to compensate for the darkening of your picture. As always: playing around with one setting at a time and looking at the resulting footage is a good way to learn what everything does visually! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 25th, 2002, 06:42 PM	#2
Steven Forrest Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 43	See my VX2000 system at this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4761 if you are interested in the VX2000 instead of one of the others. Steven Forrest

November 25th, 2002, 10:27 PM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Yes, the VX2000 is a fantastic cam for the money, today. Regarding your question, I'm not you, but I would go for the MX5000 over the TRV950, and just get used to the Japanese menus. This will take some time, however. I've used the TRV900 pro version, own a MX300, played with the TRV950, and have read my eyes red figuring which I think is better and which one I like better. In other news from Japan, the MX5000 is outselling the TRV950 by 10 to 1. And..., I did like the TRV900/PD100A a whole lot better than the newer TRV950. (I haven't seen a PDX10 yet, and don't care too.) This is my opinion. For a better opinion, contact: sales@cameraaction.au and ask them which is better, the TRV950 or the MX500. They sell both.

November 26th, 2002, 01:27 PM	#5
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Kenn, I think the TRV950 is good, solid cam. It just never did anything for me whereas the PD100A did. The main problem I have with the TRV950 is that I couldn't get a grip with it. It was slipping out of my hand, while pulling forward and to the left. After this, I stopped trying to take it for a test drive. The specs are good though, and I have read mixed reviews about the video image. With the MX300, it is lighter and easier to hold, thus a truer, "hand-held." This is my opinion only. I think the TRV950 is a good, smaller tripod cam. Even with the larger GL2, this Canon is a joy to hold while operating (for me).

December 22nd, 2002, 05:39 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Stupid me. Your take is all here on your TRV950 page! http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv950/trv950.html Now my next question..., did you sell your TRV900 and buy the TRV950? (I'm debating a similar matter, should I sell my MX300 to buy a MX500?) When will the madness end. I save up for something, buy it, then shortly thereafter out comes a newer, better model. It ain't fair, I tell you.

January 15th, 2003, 06:35 AM	#10
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	need another information... OK, I tried recording in all shuter speed modes and I got pretty fine picture of what happens when I change them... But, the higer number, the picture gets much darker, and in shutter mode, I can't adjust Exposure... Does it mean I have to light the scene with stand alone lights??? Or is there a trick? And more important Q; When I turned DATA CODE on (pressed it twice), I get the info of !1: AUTO/MANUAL MODE; 2.SHUTTER SPEED; 3.WHITE BALANCE MODE; 4. F. <some number> MODE; 5. GAIN MODE (18-0DB) I don't get numbers 4 and 5... What does this F <number< mean - what do I adjust with it? And what do those DB 18-0 mean - I thought it has to do with audio gain, but I noticed it changes sometimes when I change exposure... But, other times when I change exposure it stays still - I always work in MANUAL mode...

January 15th, 2003, 08:22 AM	#11
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Vanja, I'm not familiair with your camera since I myself have a Canon XL1s. So I cannot tell you where something is located or how to operate a certain feature. I hope others with your camera will chime in and give you those answers! I don't know why you cannot change your exposure. If my XL1s is in full manual I can adjust Shutter speed and Exposure (iris, f-stop) exactly as I want. The iris, exposure or f-stop changes how open or close the lens is and therefor how much light is being let through. f2.0 is very open f15 is very closed (on my camera). This changes the light being let through (exposure). So your F number is the exposure. The last one GAIN mode is what your camera does to the signal after it has been captured by the CCD's. This allows you to boost the signal (introducing noise) or lower it. The best is to set this at the lowest possible setting to not introduce noise (ar as least as possible). My camera is either at 0 db or -3 db (yes, negative). It never goes above 0 (unless I'm shooting and night and want to see something). If possible I add light if my shutter/exposure doesn't allow for a good enough picture. Audio gain is something different. Your camere might also have an AUTO GAIN mode. In which the camera decicdes for itself which gain level it should use. I never use it since I don't want grain or that it changes the setting whilst recording my scenes! That's why everything is on manual (my whitebalance usually is on auto though, on sometimes my focuse too) I hope this explains it a bit more! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 15th, 2003, 09:34 AM	#12
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	OK; Got it better now! BUT::::((( Thanx again! I've visited urbanfox.tv site and all of those matters are really explainde well there... And now, for the first time, I AM LITTLE DISAPOINTED in my DRV950... WHY?? First of all... You can't manualy adjust IRIS...which is conected to F-points at 950... It can be just in automatic, backlite, or spotlight modes EXPOSURE changes only GAIN values (dB)... when you set it to MANUAL, darker you go, biger is value...(or vice versa, I forgot now - doesn't matter). And SHUTER SPEED can be manualy adjusted only when SHUTER is on AUTOMATIC.... But THE WORST is that all those settings - when in CAMERA STNDBY mode - in actually SETTING THOSE VALUES - you don't see numbers.... Just some scales.... Only when you're done recording, you can see exact numbers of db, F-spots, Shuter, WB-Mode.... Why is it so??? Ican't belive it.... Can someone give me a good reason??? Or even better, tell me I'm wrong! I'd love it! :(

January 15th, 2003, 05:28 PM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Vanja, As stated earlier I do not know your camera, so I cannot help you with these device specific questions. I have send a notice to the other forum moderators to take a look at the thread and I hope that will get you some more help. Sorry! Hope you find what you are looking for. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 17th, 2003, 04:52 AM	#14
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	You really have to study the manual and play with the cam to get familar with it. A word of advice: get to know the cam before actually buying it. This way you will know what to expect. I have read about this cam's limitations. This shouldn't stop you from recording great video with it, however.

January 17th, 2003, 01:53 PM	#15
Kalani Patterson Posts: n/a	Recommended TRV950 Budget Mics? Ok, I have my new TRV950. Early play confirms that I don't want to use the built in mics unless I have no other option, so I'm in the market for mics. For what I shoot, I think that a decent shotgun and two wireless lavs (I think that term refers to lapel mics connected to a belt-mounted wireless transmitter, but please correct me if I'm wrong) should be enough, so I thought I'd field some opinions here. :-) I intend to pick up a Beachtek XLR adapter (the DXA-4S), so I can use "real" mics. B&H has it for $170. Safe to assume I connect the shotgun to the adapter with the shortest XLR calbe I can find, such as this 1.5' one? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh5.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___248818___AUAT83141.5___REG___CatID=4174___ SID=F303B6FB680 So far, for a shotgun, I'm leaning towards the Azden SGM-1X. Even though the SGM-X doesn't require the Beachtek adapter (and might therefore be more transportable and handier for quick shots or even vacation use), I think I want better than bottom end stuff like that. Also, it doesn't have a shock mount and will be a lot more sensitive to any handling noise. Similar concerns (no shock mount, no XLR) have led me to eliminate the Sennheiser MKE-300, although I've heard the audio quality is excellent. The size of the SGM-1X also fits well in my case (so I don't want anything too much longer), and it comes with the shock mount. And it's fairly reasonable, too ($150 at B&H). I've heard the Azden shotgun is not a truly stellar mic, but it should get the job done, yes? Is there anything better in that price range? I'm willing to spend more, within reason (don't go bother telling me how great Sennheiser's MKH 70's are, for instance!). As for lavs, I guess the Azden WR22-LL Pro stuff looks somewhat interesting (I'm sure I'll want at least two lavs running, so the entry level WDR-Pro is out), but I'm not married to the idea. The cost is in my range, at approx $350 for the receiver plus 2 lapel mics. For the record, I do indeed see that I can't have all three mics (2 lavs + shotgun) plugged into the Beachtek unit at the same time. I doubt that will be an issue, as 2 mics should be enough for my needs in most situations. If I ever need more than that, I'll just pick up a portable mixer. Any tips or suggestions to get me started?