TRV950 -- various questions

Imran Zaidi · January 17th, 2003, 02:13 PM

I have an Azden SGM-2X that I use with a Studio1 Productions XLR BP Pro. I recommend the XLR BP Pro over the Beachtek. Here's why... Glance through this thread to mid-way on the second page, and you'll see where I compared the two.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=5446

Also, on the shotgun mic subject, here's a good low budget comparison...

http://www.lafcpug.org/review_shotgun_mic.html

January 17th, 2003, 03:10 PM

Wow, that's a fantastic (and informative!) thread. Thanks!

Of course, now I have angst over getting the very BeachTek unit that I've heard such great things about until now. *g*

The Studio 1 unit seems to be a great deal (and about the same price as the BeachTek), and superior quality, but I have major qualms about buying an XLR adapter that's not camera mounted, due to how I tend to shoot. Much of the time, having wires dripping off my belt just isn't an option. :-(

Is the BeachTek unit really that bad, or is it just that the Studio 1 unit is just a bit cleaner for those looking for perfection (and can deal with the convenience/inconvenience of belt mounting, depending on your personal stance on the option)?

Glad to know the Azden mic works well for you. I'd be getting the shorter one, but they're still fairly similar, I think, and if it works well for you, it's little brother *should* work well for me, I think. :-)

Any other feedback on mics, esp. wireless, people?

Imran Zaidi · January 17th, 2003, 03:37 PM

The Beachtek is by no means "bad." I just found the Studio1 to be, as you said, cleaner, with more sound going through. The Azden or Audio Technica or other low-budget mics don't pick up nearly as much as the Sennheisers, so I figure the more you can avoid losing the better.

The main two selling points for me on the Studio1 other than the belt clip, was the fact that the ground is adjustable so you can use it on more than just one type of camera. Plus, you can use it with something like a MiniDisc just as easily. Hell, I even use it to hook XLR stuff up to my computer now and then when recording stuff into my Cakewalk Sonar software.

January 17th, 2003, 03:57 PM

Hrm. Good tips, and that makes sense.

Based on the information before me so far, however, I think the BeachTek/Azden SGM-1X combo looks like my best bet for now. I really need the XLR adapter to be on-camera. And my budget is smaller than I hoped, since I just splurged on the camera itself.

As a hobbiest who wants to go further... at some point... I think I should cut my teeth at this lower level before I sink major bucks (make that, MORE major bucks) into high end gear that I'm not certain how I'll use... or justify to the girlfriend. ;-)

Since the amounts of money involved here are admittedly not huge, I can always upgrade down the line if I develop a real need for the higher end stuff. :-)

Anyone out there have anything to contribute on the wireless front, though? :-/

Nathan Gifford · January 17th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Well I am not familar with the Azden wireless. My fvorite is still the Sennheiser Evolution 100 series. Retails for $800 each, but can be had on the street for $450. Excellent UHF mic.

Julian Luttrell · January 21st, 2003, 05:51 AM

Vanja,

what you say about the effect of the exposure control is not true - at least not on my PDX10 (which, I believe, has the same menus in most cases).

In automatic mode, the camera will try to set exposure by adjusting the iris. If fully open (F1.6 on the PDX10) is not bright enough, it also applies a positive gain.

Then, when you adjust the exposure downwards, it first reduces the gain towards 0dB. Once at 0, it starts to close down the iris.

So the exposure control does directly control the F stop. But in the case that the scene you are shooting is dimly lit, it will add positive gain if the iris cannot open any further.

Regards,

Julian

Yik Kuen · January 21st, 2003, 09:55 AM

Vanja,

What Julian explained is absolutely right. The exposure control does control the iris/gain as explained.

Anyway, I like the quality of 950 and appreciate its small footprint. VX2000/PD150 is good, but you just can't use it in every occassion.

Yesterday, I was warned 2 times while I were shooting during my tour in this country (I will not tell you where, but they're kind of sensitive here).

Before I buy my 950, I did consider VX2000 for its video quality. But, thinking that I'll be on the move more frequently this year, I decided 950. Initially, I was a bit dissapointed like you, but over the months, I've learned to appreciate this camera. Now, i really feel that I've made the correct choice.

It's such a good camera with great quality and feature. You know, I use its Bluetooth + my Ericsson phone to send mail+stills frequently ! I really appreciate that tiny built-in mail+web browser.

Vanja Marin · January 21st, 2003, 09:37 PM

Julian and Yik!

Yes, You were both very "raight":)

I am back on the track in enyojing and loving my camera...
I worked around some problems (most of them, acctualy - concidering manual functions), and some others - well;

I just had to make my mind clear about that I didn't buy HIGH END PROFESSIONAL DIGI BETTA CAM..., right????

Anyway....I like that I can really learn fast...

Pitty it is so cold, though...

Heh, talkin about that...It says in Manual that operating conditions are between 0 and 50 degrees Celsius (Don't know hom much Farenthait it is:( (40-124 I guess)....
And it was much colder these few days (up to 15 degrees colder), but I took my camera for a ride....

And it worked allright, except, the FOCUS WHEEL got so hard to turn (I don't know if it is the rubber you turn it around that shrinks from a low tempereature, or some hydraulicks - althouhg I don't think that it works on such a sophisticated principals...

So, it got hard to turn, BUT MUCH; MUCH; MUCH MORE PRECISE!!!

Cause, in "normal" conditions, I sometimes keep on turning it forever and it changes just from 1.3 to 1.5m and then suddenly, just a small move and it jumpes from 1.5m to infinity...

Here, in "low tempereture conditions" it is much harder to turn but very equal disposition between the values!!!

And the friend of mine, who's proffesional camera-man says that the "real" camera's focus- and zoom-wheels are harder to turn than on these toys (he calls our cameras so, just to make me little nervous, but loves them though:)

Well. it was just my observation!!!!
Again... I can't expect my TRV to be sooo perfect, can I??

But, I still wonder, did any of you guys notice this Focus-wheel "un-evenness"?

PS

Rob, thanx for all of Your answers

Rob Lohman · January 22nd, 2003, 04:35 AM

Your more than welcome Vanja, my pleasure. Sorry I couldn't
be off more help with your camera specifics. Glad other people
joined in on that. Also good that you've got more hang of the
camera now, that's great!

Good luck with everything.

Frank Granovski · January 22nd, 2003, 04:41 PM

I just want to mention that I like using slow shutter speeds. Say I'm doing a wedding reception, or a church thing, and the lighting is poor. That's when I like to use a shutter setting lower than 1/60th. Also, low shutter settings give you another creative tool. I've shot parts of dance scenes with 1/15 and even 1/7.5 shutter settings, coupled with some neat pans/tilts, angles and fast zooms (not too fast though). Just make sure you have a good tripod---and do a little experimenting with slower speeds. My favourite creative slow speed? 1/30th and 1/15th. Unfortunately, my personal cams have the 1/30th speed missing, and my Pana only goes down to 1/50th (PAL version; 1/60 for the NTSC version).

The TRV950 (as well as the GL2) have all the slower shutter settings!

Frank Granovski · January 23rd, 2003, 01:28 AM

My wife and I had a free pass to the movie, "Darkness Falls." It's a low budget horror flick, but I thought I should bring it up here since most of the movie was shot with slow shutter pans, tilts and zooms. With the over use of these, it greatly added an effect of creepiness and terror. Mind you, I laughed all throughout the movie, while my wife was actually frightened.

Kenn Jolemore · January 23rd, 2003, 10:44 AM

Interesting observation Frank. I recently watched "Signs"(wife bought the DVD) and the first thing I noticed was the use of slow shutter speeds to acomplish a "feel"that was sort of earie and or spooky.
I also like to use the slower speeds for a smoothing effect, mostly 1/30th and 1/15th seem to work well for acomplishing this.
KennJ

Frank Granovski · January 31st, 2003, 12:18 AM

Re: "Yesterday, I was warned 2 times while I were shooting during my tour in this country (I will not tell you where, but they're kind of sensitive here)."

The original Canon Optura (called something else in PALsville), looks just like a SLR camera. That may be the video cam for shooting in sensitive environments. This cam has a 1/3" progressive scan CCD, with all the low shutter speeds!

Vanja Marin · January 31st, 2003, 04:29 AM

Well, this all sounds good...
And looks good, sa well, till there's no motion in shut...

But, when the moving starts, this 1/30 shutter speed provides an ugly effect....
Like delay motion....

Is there a way to avoid this, and still stay at lower speed???

Vanja

Frank Granovski · January 31st, 2003, 05:15 AM

"But, when the moving starts, this 1/30 shutter speed provides an ugly effect."

If you use a tripod, you'll be surprised how nice the video will look, with a shutter speed at 1/30th.

January 17th, 2003, 08:55 PM	#20
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	Well I am not familar with the Azden wireless. My fvorite is still the Sennheiser Evolution 100 series. Retails for $800 each, but can be had on the street for $450. Excellent UHF mic. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

January 21st, 2003, 05:51 AM	#21
Julian Luttrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 164	TRV950 exposure control Vanja, what you say about the effect of the exposure control is not true - at least not on my PDX10 (which, I believe, has the same menus in most cases). In automatic mode, the camera will try to set exposure by adjusting the iris. If fully open (F1.6 on the PDX10) is not bright enough, it also applies a positive gain. Then, when you adjust the exposure downwards, it first reduces the gain towards 0dB. Once at 0, it starts to close down the iris. So the exposure control does directly control the F stop. But in the case that the scene you are shooting is dimly lit, it will add positive gain if the iris cannot open any further. Regards, Julian

January 22nd, 2003, 04:35 AM	#24
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Your more than welcome Vanja, my pleasure. Sorry I couldn't be off more help with your camera specifics. Glad other people joined in on that. Also good that you've got more hang of the camera now, that's great! Good luck with everything. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 23rd, 2003, 10:44 AM	#27
Kenn Jolemore Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: norfolk Va. Posts: 124	Interesting observation Frank. I recently watched "Signs"(wife bought the DVD) and the first thing I noticed was the use of slow shutter speeds to acomplish a "feel"that was sort of earie and or spooky. I also like to use the slower speeds for a smoothing effect, mostly 1/30th and 1/15th seem to work well for acomplishing this. KennJ __________________ KennJ

January 31st, 2003, 04:29 AM	#29
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	Low shutter speed motion problem!! Well, this all sounds good... And looks good, sa well, till there's no motion in shut... But, when the moving starts, this 1/30 shutter speed provides an ugly effect.... Like delay motion.... Is there a way to avoid this, and still stay at lower speed??? Vanja

January 17th, 2003, 02:13 PM	#16
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	I have an Azden SGM-2X that I use with a Studio1 Productions XLR BP Pro. I recommend the XLR BP Pro over the Beachtek. Here's why... Glance through this thread to mid-way on the second page, and you'll see where I compared the two. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=5446 Also, on the shotgun mic subject, here's a good low budget comparison... http://www.lafcpug.org/review_shotgun_mic.html

January 17th, 2003, 03:10 PM	#17
Kalani Patterson Posts: n/a	Wow, that's a fantastic (and informative!) thread. Thanks! Of course, now I have angst over getting the very BeachTek unit that I've heard such great things about until now. g The Studio 1 unit seems to be a great deal (and about the same price as the BeachTek), and superior quality, but I have major qualms about buying an XLR adapter that's not camera mounted, due to how I tend to shoot. Much of the time, having wires dripping off my belt just isn't an option. :-( Is the BeachTek unit really that bad, or is it just that the Studio 1 unit is just a bit cleaner for those looking for perfection (and can deal with the convenience/inconvenience of belt mounting, depending on your personal stance on the option)? Glad to know the Azden mic works well for you. I'd be getting the shorter one, but they're still fairly similar, I think, and if it works well for you, it's little brother should work well for me, I think. :-) Any other feedback on mics, esp. wireless, people?

January 17th, 2003, 03:37 PM	#18
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	The Beachtek is by no means "bad." I just found the Studio1 to be, as you said, cleaner, with more sound going through. The Azden or Audio Technica or other low-budget mics don't pick up nearly as much as the Sennheisers, so I figure the more you can avoid losing the better. The main two selling points for me on the Studio1 other than the belt clip, was the fact that the ground is adjustable so you can use it on more than just one type of camera. Plus, you can use it with something like a MiniDisc just as easily. Hell, I even use it to hook XLR stuff up to my computer now and then when recording stuff into my Cakewalk Sonar software.

January 17th, 2003, 03:57 PM	#19
Kalani Patterson Posts: n/a	Hrm. Good tips, and that makes sense. Based on the information before me so far, however, I think the BeachTek/Azden SGM-1X combo looks like my best bet for now. I really need the XLR adapter to be on-camera. And my budget is smaller than I hoped, since I just splurged on the camera itself. As a hobbiest who wants to go further... at some point... I think I should cut my teeth at this lower level before I sink major bucks (make that, MORE major bucks) into high end gear that I'm not certain how I'll use... or justify to the girlfriend. ;-) Since the amounts of money involved here are admittedly not huge, I can always upgrade down the line if I develop a real need for the higher end stuff. :-) Anyone out there have anything to contribute on the wireless front, though? :-/

January 21st, 2003, 09:55 AM	#22
Yik Kuen Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Johor Bahru, Malaysia Posts: 135	Vanja, What Julian explained is absolutely right. The exposure control does control the iris/gain as explained. Anyway, I like the quality of 950 and appreciate its small footprint. VX2000/PD150 is good, but you just can't use it in every occassion. Yesterday, I was warned 2 times while I were shooting during my tour in this country (I will not tell you where, but they're kind of sensitive here). Before I buy my 950, I did consider VX2000 for its video quality. But, thinking that I'll be on the move more frequently this year, I decided 950. Initially, I was a bit dissapointed like you, but over the months, I've learned to appreciate this camera. Now, i really feel that I've made the correct choice. It's such a good camera with great quality and feature. You know, I use its Bluetooth + my Ericsson phone to send mail+stills frequently ! I really appreciate that tiny built-in mail+web browser.

January 21st, 2003, 09:37 PM	#23
Vanja Marin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zagreb,HR,Croatia Posts: 38	Julian and Yik! Yes, You were both very "raight":) I am back on the track in enyojing and loving my camera... I worked around some problems (most of them, acctualy - concidering manual functions), and some others - well; I just had to make my mind clear about that I didn't buy HIGH END PROFESSIONAL DIGI BETTA CAM..., right???? Anyway....I like that I can really learn fast... Pitty it is so cold, though... Heh, talkin about that...It says in Manual that operating conditions are between 0 and 50 degrees Celsius (Don't know hom much Farenthait it is:( (40-124 I guess).... And it was much colder these few days (up to 15 degrees colder), but I took my camera for a ride.... And it worked allright, except, the FOCUS WHEEL got so hard to turn (I don't know if it is the rubber you turn it around that shrinks from a low tempereature, or some hydraulicks - althouhg I don't think that it works on such a sophisticated principals... So, it got hard to turn, BUT MUCH; MUCH; MUCH MORE PRECISE!!! Cause, in "normal" conditions, I sometimes keep on turning it forever and it changes just from 1.3 to 1.5m and then suddenly, just a small move and it jumpes from 1.5m to infinity... Here, in "low tempereture conditions" it is much harder to turn but very equal disposition between the values!!! And the friend of mine, who's proffesional camera-man says that the "real" camera's focus- and zoom-wheels are harder to turn than on these toys (he calls our cameras so, just to make me little nervous, but loves them though:) Well. it was just my observation!!!! Again... I can't expect my TRV to be sooo perfect, can I?? But, I still wonder, did any of you guys notice this Focus-wheel "un-evenness"? PS Rob, thanx for all of Your answers

January 22nd, 2003, 04:41 PM	#25
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I just want to mention that I like using slow shutter speeds. Say I'm doing a wedding reception, or a church thing, and the lighting is poor. That's when I like to use a shutter setting lower than 1/60th. Also, low shutter settings give you another creative tool. I've shot parts of dance scenes with 1/15 and even 1/7.5 shutter settings, coupled with some neat pans/tilts, angles and fast zooms (not too fast though). Just make sure you have a good tripod---and do a little experimenting with slower speeds. My favourite creative slow speed? 1/30th and 1/15th. Unfortunately, my personal cams have the 1/30th speed missing, and my Pana only goes down to 1/50th (PAL version; 1/60 for the NTSC version). The TRV950 (as well as the GL2) have all the slower shutter settings!

January 23rd, 2003, 01:28 AM	#26
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	My wife and I had a free pass to the movie, "Darkness Falls." It's a low budget horror flick, but I thought I should bring it up here since most of the movie was shot with slow shutter pans, tilts and zooms. With the over use of these, it greatly added an effect of creepiness and terror. Mind you, I laughed all throughout the movie, while my wife was actually frightened.

January 31st, 2003, 12:18 AM	#28
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Re: "Yesterday, I was warned 2 times while I were shooting during my tour in this country (I will not tell you where, but they're kind of sensitive here)." The original Canon Optura (called something else in PALsville), looks just like a SLR camera. That may be the video cam for shooting in sensitive environments. This cam has a 1/3" progressive scan CCD, with all the low shutter speeds!

January 31st, 2003, 05:15 AM	#30
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	"But, when the moving starts, this 1/30 shutter speed provides an ugly effect." If you use a tripod, you'll be surprised how nice the video will look, with a shutter speed at 1/30th.