Sony RX10 user experience thread

[Jeff Harper]

Re: zoom, I am enjoying the camera, but the speed of the zoom is stupidly slow, and it's very loud at certain points in the zoom range. I may have a defective camera, I don't know. From a run and gun point of view it's very limiting. Lovely images though. If you could zoom quicker by hand it would help a great deal, but as we all know it doesn't work that way.

Playing with it and shooting around the house I actually enjoy the slow zoom. Sadly, life moves much faster during a wedding shoot.

[Noa Put]

Yes, the zoom is noisy and gets picked up in the audio, as long as you don't zoom the internal mike is actually quite good, posted some results here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...na-gh3-g6.html

I really like the camera but to be honest the slow zoom ruins it for me, when I shoot alone I often need to reframe quickly and the rx10 makes this impossible, it would otherwise be a perfect camera, for run and gun it handles very good and making all necessary adjustments on the fly is easy and fast, the viewfinder is also very good, wish there was a small eyecup for it. I can easily handle this camera without any rig, just handheld, I only need to use the active stabilization mode, not teh standard one, that last one causes micro vibrations in the image while handheld shooting, something which is mostly eliminated in active mode though you sacrifice some resolution for it as it crops a part of the image to further stabilize..

[Dave Blackhurst]

I've tested several Sony cameras (RX100/100M2, HX300), and the "fixed rate" slow zoom is intentional, and not exclusive to this camera.

The faster the zoom, the louder it is (you can fast zoom while not recording to hear the difference), meaning it would become much more annoying in the audio than it is with the "throttled" speed. And I suspect they also wanted to improve the video by preventing "bad" technique from fumbling the zoom to high speed with a two stage zoom control.

It does feel a little sluggish, but part of that is the total range of the zoom (particularly if you use clear or digital zoom ranges). Hopefully if one is "close" to the desired framing, it wouldn't be as much of an issue? Overall, I've been fine with it, but a firmware hack to speed it up would be "interesting"!

In a camera of few "quibbles", I can live with it as it is...

I have added a few minor things to round out the "kit", but I'm with Noa, you can shoot this with very little additional rigging, which feels rather nice for a change! This was very much the design concept Sony was after - a relatively light and small camera that covers a LOT of shooting situations without need for a lot of "add-ons".

I like the feel of an added folding flash bracket (also handy to mount a small dimmable LED light if needed), I had circular polarizers from my Alphas already, and they aren't seeing as much use... and for stills, a "puffer" style flash diffuser seems to work pretty well with the pop up flash. Not really much else I can think I'd "have" to have for most shooting situations - it's very freeing! I guess the zoom thing just doesn't rank that high, with all the other things that work well...

[Jeff Harper]

Just returned from my first event with RX10 and two XA10s. Please take my comments with a grain of salt. I shoot multicamera events by myself, so my point of view will not be valid for many others. It's just that shooting with 3 and 4 camera solo requires a bit of focus, and anything that makes things more difficult for me is NOT received well. Again, this is just me. Any problems I had today were to be expected because I researched the camera pretty well. Sadly, the seriousness of a thing is sometimes not realized until you have to work around it.

Today the RX10 was not my main camera, of course. This was a trial run. It was a two camera shoot and the RX10 was tagging along. Static subjects who rarely moved allowed me time to play with camera and it was a great opportunity for testing the camera.

First, the good: I enjoy shooting in Manual mode with this camera. First camera I've ever shot video in Manual. It's a walk in the park, and quite enjoyable. Something about the controls, especially after setting up custom buttons, makes the camera fun to use this way.

Is it fair to criticize a camera for things I knew about it before I bought it? Probably not.

From an event videography point of view there are problems with this camera, at least for someone who routinely does 3 and 4 camera shoots by themselves, as I did today.

The zoom function on this camera is not right. I was not able to control how slowly I zoomed out today. I knew this going in but sometimes you don't realize how something will bother you until you have to deal with it on the job. Other dslr style cameras have given us silky smooth variable zoom functions, why did not Sony manage it for this camera?

For me this zoom issue would be problematic if this were to be a primary camera or even a b cam. When in the CIZ range the zoom behavior is markedly faster than regular zoom so when zooming out from a speaker it was rough. I like long, slow creeping zoom ins and outs (on occasion, not often) not gonna happen with this camera. Makes me appreciate the zoom on other cameras that I have taken for granted.

It is pointless to complain about the recording limit, right? Well, I'm going to complain anyway. Panasonic gave us both the M4/3 GH1 and GH2 years ago with NO RECORDING limit. Are we going backwards on purpose? Thanks Sony.

29 minutes flies by very quickly when your shooting 4 hours of footage. Camera shut off twice during event and I didn't catch it either time because the recording icon is at lower frame and it's almost not noticable unless you look for it. Is that my fault? Of course it is. But a tiny recording icon on the bottom of the screen? It's a nuisance at the least and could be castastorphic at worst. Last time around I thought to use my phone timer and put it on vibrate and that worked. This is what I will do in the future. I will also be on the lookout for it in the future, but it's just one more thing to worry about/deal with.

Keep in mind I shoot gobs of 60 minute catholic weddings, so this camera is likely to shut off up to three times during mass, if I were to use one from the back of main floor, as I would like to do.

Is the 29 minute limit a deal breaker? No. Is the zoom thing a deal breaker? No.

Footage is fine, kind of nice, even using CIZ.

It's just unfortunate this camera is crippled like it is.

Now that I've gotten these complaints out (again) I will henceforth attempt to focus on the positives of the camera. I am very anxious to try it out for a getting ready session, should be awesome.

[Jeff Harper]

Editing shoot today. Almost the whole 4 hours I shot using RX10 at full zoom using Clear Image mode. It was also slightly overexposed at .7 to compensate for a dimly lit room. Footage is good. Even with the overexposure and full zoom the footage is surprisingly detailed.

I am going to order a vibrating timer from Amazon to carry in pocket to avoid problems with the 29 minute limit.

[Noa Put]

I had to shoot a fashion show yesterday in a small clothing store, my initial plan was to use my rx10 until the owner said she wanted focus on details while the models where walking towards me, I also brought my Sony cx730 camera and ended up using that camera, the slow zoom from the Sony rx10 made it impossible to follow the fast moving girls while with the cx730 that was a walk in the park. I did use the rx10 during the preparation at the hairdresser and when they put up make-up, this time I used the active stabilization that crops the image slightly and I shot it all handheld, in that case the camera performed very well, even with a small crop the image is still sharp, nice colors and the image doesn't display any "jitters" that I had with standard stabilization.

I suggest we team up and assault the Sony development building to force the engineers under gunpoint to write a firmware update which gives faster zoom speeds during recording, currently the zoomspeed is just ridiculous and it takes ages to go through the lensrange, I"m even thinking about selling the camera just for this reason. I absolutely hate it.

[Jeff Harper]

Yeah Noah, I'm with you.

It's true that we knew about these issues when we ordered the camera. Unfortunately the reality of working with these limitations is not as easy as we might have imagined.

The excitement over things like a 1" sensor really grabbed me. I did want a great DSLR, so I might keep mine, but I"m looking at the AX100 and there might not be room in my budget for both at this time.

It's just a dirty, lowdown shame and it really makes me disappointed at Sony for doing this.

My $500 Lumix FZ200 has a much better zoom. It makes no sense.

[Noa Put]

I"m not finding any other reason to get rid of the rx10, it's miles ahead from any dslr I have owned and do own in terms of functionality, only the zoomspeed kills it for me. It yet again proves how valuable a simple handicam can be, It would not have been possible to pull any smooth zoom constantly with a dslr, that tiny zoombutton on the cx730, how ridiculously small it may look, can provide a very smooth zoom if you treat it very gentle. Without my handicams I would not have been able to accept this fashion shoot.

[Jeff Harper]

I know Noa, I had the same issue at my last shoot with the RX10. Couldn't get a decent zoom out of the camera. The zoom speed is not the only issue, it's not a real varialble zoom and it's just not right.

As you say, handicams offer nice zoom actions. My XA10 is essentially a handicam and it performs the most beautiful zooms with the right technique. I feel your pain.

The zoom kind of ruins what could be an amazing tool for an event videographer.

To sell or not to sell? I don't know either, the jury is still out. It is a really great camera in many other respects. It's just that these initial experiences don't bode well for a long term relationship.

[Dave Blackhurst]

I've commented on it before - this appears to be typical in Cybershots - once record is pressed, you get one zoom speed, AKA SLOOOOOW.

I believe it is a "feature", and could be hacked or upgraded in firmware - probably something as simple as a switch in the menus to turn "slow zoom" on/off - the tripod remote I picked up has just such a switch, but of course the camera defaults to SLOOOOW, so the remote can't access the internal functionality. I am sure the functionality is THERE, it's just been set this way, for reasons I've stated before... avoid complaints about "noisy zoom" (fast is LOUD), and prevent bad crash zoom technique.

I shot with the camera quite a bit this weekend, and other than a bit of human hesitation since I'm still learning all the camera can do, I didn't once feel like it was preventing me from getting the shot. Again, I'd describe it more as the camera MADE me shoot!!

Not sure I'm ready to do a "high pressure" live shoot just yet (there's still a couple PJ7xx series in the kit anyway!), and that might make me feel differently about the zoom, but as I've watched what I've shot, the slow zoom feels nice and "natural" on playback. And darn if all the stills and video don't look pretty nice!

[Dave Blackhurst]

Just an "FYI" for anyone thinking of using the VMC-AVM1 adapter to use the RM-AV2 as a LANC/remote to control the RX10 via the "multi" USB port/terminal... it doesn't work!

Strange, since I have used the newer tripod handle remote, works fine, and accesses the functions as expected, and when connected, the AV2 lights up, indicating power is being applied as expected... but no response to the controls!

I'm a bit bummed, since the AV2 is a handy little remote for tripod or shoulder mount use, I already have a couple, and one would THINK that an adapter between the A/V plug and the MULTI terminal would connect SONY accessories properly, but no joy. I'm sure the VPR1 will work, but it's bigger and bulkier, as is the handle off a VPR10 I picked up used.

I'm sure it's once again a matter of a "trigger" pin than needs to inform the camera that the remote is there (since the VPR10 handle works fine). The AVM1 specifically states it's for "Handycam", and it's on the accessory list for the AX100, so "maybe" it will work with that camera. Just so odd that the Cybershots apparently aren't set up to be compatible.

I'm tempted to try to reverse engineer the VPR handle and the AV2 (got both opened up, doesn't look THAT complicated, except everything is now SMC!) to see if it "can" be modified some way - anyone know where I can get the service manuals with diagrams and pinouts? The pinout for the "multi" jack would be MOST helpful if anyone happens to have it or know where I might find it. Since it's "new", not sure if it's documented just yet?

Looks from a Google search that there is some interest in hacking this "MULTI" jack for time lapse triggers, but the stuff out there so far is very limited - I hacked the A/V to LANC connection long ago, guess it's time to try to figure this one out!!



EDIT: Found what looks like fairly complete info on this exact issue, all in German (time to scrape the rust off of meine translator!), Should be enough to figure out how to hack the AV2 to work with the AVM1 so one can control the RX series with any luck! Oh the wonders of the web, and the joys of reverse engineering/hacking when we want our toys to do more than they were designed to do!

Now has anyone hacked the firmware so we could speed up the zoom for those that want it?? CAN'T be that hard!

[Jeff Harper]

Good luck with that Dave.

I shot a very low end wedding Saturday (for free) for the experience of using the camera, and it was a very good learning experience. The camera does produce really nice images, when you look at the price point of the camera.

Being more used to the 29 minute limit it was not as big a deal.

I started shooting in manual mode but I took too long to adjust settings during the hectic getting ready segment so I shifted to program mode. That saved the day. I'm not an experienced photographer or DSLR user so I'm still clumsy when needing to find good settings under pressure.

The zoom reared it's ugly head and was a real hinderance when I needed to quickly zoom in for shot. Missed several opportunities so I eventually gave up.

Do love the footage.

[Noa Put]

Missed several opportunities so I eventually gave up.

I only used the rx10 once on a wedding so my work experience with it is also limited, I too have had several moments while the camera was recording where I needed to go in closer quickly which was not possible, I do have the shot but from a wide distance which misses the impact of the moment. I will just take it as it comes now and stop complaining about it, the camera does give me all the shooting pleasure I am not getting with another dslr when it comes to realtime controll, like having a clickless aperture ring and ability to fast go through your iso range which is imperative to have in run and gun or the zebra's. Only when choosing a frame I either have to decide in advance in standby mode which zooms much quicker or run towards the subject I"m shooting in record mode which should keep me healthy. :)

[Dave Blackhurst]

I'm still playing with the AV2, and a VPR1 handle... while having the German info is helpful, there's some strangeness on that MULTI port... too many projects, so only poking at it here and there.

I know the AV2 lights up, indicating power is making it via the LANC power pin, but the LANC signal isn't connecting properly...

It's obvious that the current remotes are variations on your typical LANC, just got to figure out what the "trigger" mechanism is to alert the camera to accept the signal from a "generic" LANC, or the AV2, which you'd THINK would work, and it "might" on the new camcorders, but for some reason it's not on the Cybershots (YET!)


The firmware is where the zoom speed would need to be adjusted - it's probably literally changing a couple numbers or a single "switch", and flashing the cam, and/or enabling an additional menu item if you want to get fancy and make it user adjustable. I'm guessing that at best it would be a "two speed" affair, if "fast" could be enabled when recording... but it might improve things a bit?

[Noa Put]

I shot a wedding yesterday (first of the season) and decided to use the rx10 during the photoshoot and use it handheld, I did not use the standard stabilization as that caused some microjitters so now I used the active one, it crops a part of the image to have some more playroom to stabilize the image further. I think I got spoiled by the stabilization on my cx730 but the ois on the rx10 is "ok" in active mode, better then standard anyway and the sharpness is still enough to match up with my other camera's.

I shot in standard preset and left all settings at 0, I do notice a issue now that I have not seen before in this camera, something that my cx730 does display on occasion as well. I have shot before with this rx10 but is was all controlled movement, on a tripod or slider, only now I shot handheld and I get noticeable flicker in my image on high detailed scenes, there are a few shots outside with trees and bushes and because the image moves a little bit constantly because it's handheld the whole image flickers, there are several shots I won't be able to use in my final edit because of this.

Where it gets weird is this; If I view the footage on my pc screen (a lg 29inch 21:9 screen) there is hardly any flicker visible but when I look at it on 2 large led tv's there is, has anyone else experienced this? I shot everything at 1080p 50p.