Sony RX10 user experience thread

[Maurizio Panella]

Noa, can you tell me the differences from RX10 to EA50 in the easy of use terms?

Thanks

[Noa Put]

They are basically 2 completely different camera's where the nex-ea50 wins hands down when it comes to versatility, you can add a wireless receiver, big videolight with battery without any special constructions and have a formfactor that is cut out for any type of work, the rx10 is the only hybrid dslr kind of camera out there that has all important features build in that even the nex-ea50 is missing, most important one is build in ND. The rx10 is easy to operate and has everything you would expect from a real videocamera with the biggest difference between the nex-ea50 that is has a fixed lens which can be limiting and the difference in size which can either be a advantage or disadvantage. The worst part for me is the much to slow zoom operation on the lens, even when in manual, the nex-ea50 stocklens is a joy to use, the rx10 zoomlens a big frustration, unless you only need slow creeping zooms. The rx10 has a sharper image and less moire and aliasing and a much better wide to tele lens in terms of low light. If it wasn't for the zoom speed issue this camera would be perfect for any run and gun work.

[Dave Blackhurst]

To confirm, US models are 60/24, no apparent switching to 50/25, but it looks like EU models (and perhaps some other international versions?) have different firmware.

And about that zoom... you were being kind at 12 sec end to end... I need to double check, but pretty sure it's even slower here! Not to mention it stays sluggish into Clear and digital zoom ranges. Since there is an obvious change from not recording to recording, there must have been a "design decision" in the firmware.

Perhaps if we raise enough of a stink, they can correct it with an update (Alpha division DOES do updates!). My solution would be a menu selection that allows us to set the speed to OUR liking. Should be easy to do if you had access to the Firmware! I snagged the more advanced remote that goes with the Sony tripod, when it comes in, I will see if it can access zoom speeds, it has a few more switches, so maybe it will grant "magic" access to things not otherwise accessible?


I'm primarily testing the photo functions right now, as a backup to an aging Alpha - so far, looks like it may well compare favorably. I could retire one more camera from the fleet if so... the RX10 looks to be the "Swiss army knife" of cameras, it may not "replace" every other capture device, but it can do the functions of many!


One thing to note, as I've seen it stated elsewhere incorrectly - you can turn off zoom entirely, enable just the clear zoom range (2x), or enable clear AND Digital zoom (4x!) - it will show in the zoom display readout as "C" and "D". Good to know it's there in a pinch if you can accept some image degradation. I shot a couple samples of things off in the far distance with the 4x, and the results weren't bad - again, in a pinch, you have a passable 800mm! I also noticed a very odd wavy flickering in the Live view at that long end of the digital zoom, in low light - doesn't affect the shot, but looks horrid, is very distracting, not sure what is causing it? Of course this would be ABSOLUTE worst case shooting conditions anyway!

Overall the camera is pretty beefy, feels a bit larger in the hand than it actually is, heavy for it's size like the RX100, really demands a "two hands on" grip, IMO. Menus will take quite a while to go through and sort out (even if you already know Sony's menu system), that's before trying to decide on custom button settings, this one will take a WHILE to get a complete handle on!!


So far, a few little head scratchers (mostly menu items that gray out when it seems like they should be active...), but probably need more time to work with the camera! Could probably go out and shoot with it right now and get acceptable results! So far my random samples have been sufficiently nice to get my attention.


One other nice thing, some knockoff batteries (meaning it SAYS Sony, but it's NOT) I've had laying around seem to work fine... they didn't work at all with some NEX's - gave "wrong battery" warning, and were a little short so they didn't connect reliably in A55 series cameras. Looks like they will suffice for additional power! The Sony external charger I have from A55 days is not exactly a "speed charger" either, I wonder whether the "new" QM1 would be any better... charging for a full day or longer trip could be tedious with what I'm seeing!

Overall first impressions are quite favorable, but much to explore and learn - definitely NOT a "novice" camera!

[John McCully]

Great stuff Dave, I look forward to more of your thoughts as you become familiar with the complexities of this camera.

Regarding your final point about the novice while I do agree with your comment in as much as this camera has a lot more to offer than a ‘novice’ might be able to understand or interested in exploring there is another way of looking at this that I feel obliged to point out lest novices reading here might conclude this camera is not for them, which might not be at all true.

I have been playing around with the camera for a few days now evaluating some of the options, and there are many as you know, and the standard to which I compare my experimentation is the factory default which I return to frequently in order to reset my view. Therefore I am gaining a good understanding of how the camera performs outdoors in good light with the camera set up as it arrived; that is as a point and shoot device with the photographic mode set to Superior Auto and hitting either the photo or the movie button without touching the myriad of controls that are available. I passed the camera to a friend who knows nothing whatsoever about cameras, photography or movie making, and told him to point and press the appropriate button. Understand that this guy was not even to novice level yet he shot remarkably good photos and footage. Now his framing left something to be desired but the quality he delivered, or should I say the camera delivered in his hands, was remarkably good.

It could be argued that for novices who want a decent EVF and accurate point and shoot capabilities this is one heck of a camera. Just because all the stuff under the hood is there doesn’t mean you need to get in there and utilize it to produce excellent material under good outdoor lighting conditions..

Therefore in that context I can say the RX10 is the best point and shoot novice-friendly non-pocket-able camera I have ever used for both photography and movies.

But of course it is also much much more...

[Dave Blackhurst]

Agreed to the extent that you CAN just point and shoot, right out of the box, and photos and video look remarkably good!

Where the comment comes in is that if a novice decides to start pushing buttons and "fiddling" with the controls, they could QUICKLY find themselves WAY over their head!! Just dealt with that on an RX100 - guy pushed the wrong buttons with a slow memory stick, and thought the camera was malfunctioning - it was trying to write RAW+JPEG bursts to a slow card.... CHOKE, GAG, SPUTTER!! As long as they don't push the WRONG buttons, they'll get great results!

After a couple handheld video "runs" with an added bracket (LCD seems to conflict with the bracket or a tripod mount - if you don't pull it out a bit first, it will get "stuck" by the bracket/plate) to help keep level, the video cams just went up for "review", and the stills have me debating whether the Alphas should stay in the fleet... That whole "Swiss army knife" thing. I'm finding there's a fairly decent "pop" to the photos and footage thanks to the lens.

An RX10 and an RX100/RX100M2 would make a potent combo, and cover most of what every other camera I have or have owned would do. VERY few times when these two wouldn't "fill the bill" (OK... so long form, free run might hit that 30 minute mark...) - the 100 is small, so it's got uses when the 10 is a little "big", but both still fit in a small camera bag, including several accessories and extra batteries. If you use a backpack or sling type bag, you'd still have room for a huge picnic lunch!


The next move is to figure out "accessorizing" - the small folding Stratos bracket has always served me well, works nicely with the RX's, I'm thinking the small "puffer" style flash diffuser would be good to soften the flash, a little LED light for fill, have to test the small shotgun mic... not too much this "kit" wouldn't be able to do nicely!

[Ken Ross]

Dave, the camera will continue to grow on you as it has me. I can just about guarantee that.

I've been getting more of a kick out of this camera than any I've owned in a long time. :)

[Simon Denny]

Ahh, bugger man, I thought this might be the case. Thanks for the info guys. We get hit hard in Aus and our dollar is dropping again against the Green Back. Oh well..

[Dave Blackhurst]

On the plus side, this is likely to remain a very usable and technologically advanced camera for at least a while - there might be a FEW "Mk2" improvements next year, but I'd rather have a year of better photos and video!

While there are a few "quibbles" so far (and those may vanish once I use it some more and figure out all it can do!), the wish list for "improvements" really wouldn't have very much on it... there's ALWAYS something, but even the slow zoom thing felt oddly "natural" (almost like a dolly move) as I tried a couple handheld test shots!


My list of cameras that have suddenly become "redundant", or mostly so, grew longer after actually putting hands on the RX10 - I should actually come out ahead once I sell a few off! There's always room for "special purpose" cams, and something "pocketable", but the RX10 covers a LOT of shooting scenarios.

And yes, the "fun" factor is quite significant if you enjoy shooting (both stills and video). Can't really put a price on that, OR the high quality output that seems well baked in!

[David Heath]

Quick question - I understand the power zoom is slow, but can you override it manually, just by twisting a ring say?

I realise the shot change probably won't be usable, but am thinking if you simply need to do a quick reframe. (Probably cutting the zoom out in editing.)

[Dave Blackhurst]

As Noa has already stated, the zoom is "sorta slow" when you are in still or standby, but once you hit record, it's nearly glacial, a good 12 seconds from W to T, I just double checked it with the zoom lever - the fly by wire ring is worse, as you have multiple revolutions... awkward...

It appears to me that the traditional Sony "two step" slow/fast zoom action becomes a "one step", AKA: SLOW when you hit record - this may be intentional, or perhaps could be a firmware "glitch" in record mode (this is after all an "all new" camera, there may be glitches!) It's not the hardware, it CAN zoom faster, it's the way the firmware was designed from the factory - sort of like a throttle limiter to keep a car below a certain speed!.


That said, I did some walkaround shooting, doing a few zooms, and it felt actually rather "natural" for want of a better term. Definitely can't "crash zoom", but I think I can get used to it, and the slow zoom felt sort of more like a dolly move, which is in theory "better" so you don't have to cut the "crash" out?

I am sure there was a reasoning behind it, but it's a little "different", and will take some getting used to, particularly if you are trying to shoot live/run and gun, you'll HAVE to anticipate your shots/framing


I've suggested that Sony could possibly add a menu item that would allow a user to adjust the zoom speeds - I know I've seen that on "pro" cameras. If they open the API, this could probably be coded in about 5 minutes...

[Ron Evans]

Processor likely needs the time to interpolate without breaking up the encoder. There is a lot of data to crunch from that sensor to make a 1920x1080 image.

Ron Evans

[Darren Levine]

has anyone seen a little jump in the optics when zooming out from full tele? i noticed it when pointing up at a tall building and starting to zoom out, i got 2 different optical studders. most apparent when shooting faraway subjects

also, i noticed what noa was talking about with micro vibrations which arent apparent when shooting, but very apparent in editing. has me thinking a lot less of the standard stabilizer, and wondering if sony can make more settings for the active stabilizer, like low, medium, high. high being what the current only option is.

[Ken Ross]

Haven't noticed that Darren. But I did mention early on in another forum that I felt the OIS was the weak point of the RX10.

[Dave Blackhurst]

@Ron -
I suspect the idea was to give a better "user experience" - while WE might know what a "crash zoom" is and where it comes in handy... there may have been a perception that preventing the "inexperienced user" from executing such a maneuver was desirable.

Recall the early "test footage" by reviewers who thought that waving the camera around wildly was "technique"... Such things do indeed "stress the encoder" and CODEC and result in crap footage. Sony might have felt that encouraging good camera work might reduce criticism? Criticism of a device for what is nothing other than "user malfunction" is all too common...


@Darrin -

Yep, I've noticed some "jump" - it's a factor of the substantial glass and physics, the HX300 also has a little of it, same thing of starting and stopping a larger lens rather than the typical Handycam moving smaller internal elements.

Haven't turned off the "active" to see what happens as of yet, probably wouldn't do it unless tripod mounted anyway, as I've never been able to avoid my own "micro-wobbles" when handheld - as still as I can try to stand, breathing, pulse, and the microtwitching of muscles that prevents us falling over all seem to transmit to the camera!

I've noticed some criticism of the A7r as the internal shutter apparently shakes the camera when mounted on a large lens (basically leverage amplifying the shutter inertia, causing a linear "shake" and blurriness in the stills).


I'd begin to suspect that as we are shooting higher and higher resolution and expecting sharper and sharper images, these tiny motions will become more noticeable - much like many modern aircraft, that MUST have computer assistance to maintain stable flight, we may NEED "active" stabilization to avoid physics induced "issues". I've had a bit of fun with wind-induced and sound induced vibration with the HX300... stabilization can only do so much... and physics is unforgiving...

[Ken Ross]

Dave, I can recall my Sony NEX-VG30 having better OIS and that had a pretty substantial piece of glass...but still smaller than that of the RX10.

So maybe you're right. I've done some casual A/Bs with OIS in Standard vs Active and there may be a slight hit in resolution in using Active. More importantly though, you do lose some of the WA capability of the lens when using Active.

Of course in WA, we don't really care as much about the method of OIS. So there the Standard is perfectly fine in stabilizing motion.