Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

John McCully · February 2nd, 2014, 01:46 AM

Noa, yes, please, I for one would like to see a sample of your footage. I would also appreciate your comments regarding your overall assessment of the camera not just for wedding work but as a general purpose machine compared say to your GH3.

I might add that thus far I am more than delighted with the RX10 for just fooling around, the birds and the bees, landscapes, trains and rain, cats and dogs and the like. As a photographic tool I find it not too shabby too.

To answer your question; yes please; I want.

Dave Blackhurst · February 2nd, 2014, 05:48 PM

Got to take the RX10 out on a day hike... nothing "special", but used it mostly for stills, and a couple little clips. Got to say I'm very happy with the results. 86 shots/clips, only a couple slightly out of focus (through glass shots are always tricky!), and the rest are solid "keepers"... I don't usually shoot a lot, but I kept seeing good shots, and even better results on the LCD, this is a very addictive camera to shoot with.

Viewfinder was nice for outdoor shooting, although the articulating LCD made a few shots easier too.

Circular Polarizer was mounted and used, at least some of the time. Had to take it off for some shots where it picked up more glare... a couple extra layers of glass can do that. Fill flash from the pop-up was handy in a couple backlit "people" shots, and was powerful enough to do the trick.

The surprise was a full digital zoom (yeah, I leave that turned on, I can see the level of zoom in the display and decide whether I can live with the consequences!) shot of a hawk on a distant rock - so small we weren't sure if there was something there or not... actually got a couple "usable" shots where you can see the eye/head position and some detail... doesn't look "bad" at all, probably better than the average pocket camera at "normal" distances!

The video clips were just for giggles, not worth sharing, but I think it's time to do a couple controlled shots against the 7xx series Handycam... I have a "feeling" the footage is better, but it could be just the fun of the "new toy".

It's nice to feel very confident that the camera will "get the shot", and get it well. The RX100 and the Mk2 have been my "go to" carry around cameras, but of course are limited by the short zoom and aperture ramp (not like those were a "big" deal in a pocket rocket, an HX300 covered the gap when called upon). The RX10 is bigger and heavier, but still portable, and now has a small sling bag with the RX100M2 snuck in behind it, and a selection of batteries and accessories, so that's the bag that will be "handy"...

Time to go look at bigger memory cards and hard drives!

Jim Giberti · February 2nd, 2014, 07:27 PM

I shot the RX10 on a series of scenes for an image/promo piece last week.
It featured a 2 horse sleigh in brilliant sun and deep snow.
It was a quick decision and I had to use the EVF, which frankly, on a day like that, was pretty ineffective.
After the first several shots, I did something else I've never done and switched it to autofocus.

Bottom line is the footage is pretty impressive, great detail, zero moire even with a number of actors and fabrics and motion.
The lens range and IQ was just great as is it's being the only camera that allows for one button slow motion on the fly with the ability to get right back to 24p 50fps with one touch.
Another notable plus is how well the lens handles flare...like better than almost any lenses I've shot.
Overall, because of the comprehensive R&G features, we got a lot more, clean, quality footage than I'd expect with any other small camera, including the C100 (given the 60p).

I shoot Natural -3 -3 -3 and start with a Filnconvert grade to match my other cameras (in this case the BMPCC for the close-ups)

When I got back from that location I immediately rigged the RX10 with a magnetic plate and the Kinotehnik LCDVF BM and now it functions like a real video camera, by far the best you'll use for any where near this price. IMO, for this type of work, with the LCDVF, the RX10 might be the best R&G camera out there.

Werner Graf · February 3rd, 2014, 02:28 AM

I am very happy what is coming out with this little Gem..
Last saturday I was at a great concert and filmed for pure pleasure with one of my 2 RX 10.
Movie Mode 1080 50p. I like to ability to change the gain with the extra Dial "audience and the couple".
Handsfree 5000 ISO Tungsten VIVID Color I was taking photos and forgot to go back to Natural. In FCP X I reduced the Color and Contrast, EQ on Sound, Video Stabilized.The Automatic is very smooth and als good exposure, no pumping from the AF. A Canon 70 D has much more noise above 400 ISO. Bought two while so relatively cheap, for Interview Situation I will use one for a closer framing and can intercut.
Close up zoomed in the AF has some issues, just zoom back and in again I bought 2 Tiffen Ultracontrast Filters 1/2 and 3 need soon a 2 as good compromiss. A number 2 whould be good also for the CANON DSLR's wich crushed the blacks. The Ultracons lift the blacks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WC...ature=youtu.be

Werner Graf · February 3rd, 2014, 04:24 AM

Youtube always change colors and Contrast...

Rich Adrion · February 3rd, 2014, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I have some rx10 footage from the last wedding I did last year (end december) and will start editing it in a week, if you want I can share some footage through a password protected link?

Sure that would be great
Thanks

Jeff Harper · February 3rd, 2014, 09:36 AM

Very excited this camera will be my next purchase. Thanks for your reports, everyone.

Phil Goetz · February 3rd, 2014, 02:49 PM

Which DVINFO sponsor are you considering ordering from? wink wink...

Cliff Totten · February 3rd, 2014, 09:14 PM

Just got my new RX10 last week.

I was originally expecting to have a nice "all in one" camera for vacations. Something that took "good" photos and shot "good" video. After spending a day with this camera, I realized that I completely underestimated the image quality and complete functionality of the RX10. In fact, I became downright shocked at how much better this camera actually was, compared to my original expectations.

The good:

The build quality is superb. It's magnesium body feels great in your hands. (close your eyes and it feels like a baby A99)

The lens is fast, bright and very sharp from corner to corner at all lengths. The constant f2.8 is sweet. I also LOVE having an aperture ring on a small camera like this.

You can configure features to your hearts content. The function button brings up two rows of user programmable icons to control most of the functions you could ever want.

Manual audio level control, great meters and headphone monitoring.

Full and seperate manual control of ISO, shutter speed and Iris. No "Handycam/NX30" crippling tricks!

Full scan sensor and scalling...no line skipping = VERY sharp video. (look at slashcam.com's resolution charts...it will shock you)

Clean 8bit 4:2:2 HDMI out for external recording.

Perfect lens to sensor optical match up.

Great image processing and excellent noise reduction

The not so good:

Lens zoom is not variable. It's a smooth slow crawl. (the way I like it anyway but having variable speeds would have been nice)

29 minute recording time. Yeah,..they all have it and we all know why. (I still hate it though)

"OK" image stabilization. Optical-only provides best resolution. Adding "active" mode will lower resolution slightly.

AVCHD Codec. This one baffles me. Sony has no problem making a great h.264 chipset on their FS100. The AVCHD standard generally is pretty damn good considering it's 8bit 4:2:0 limitation. The FS100 is especially durable and tough. The RX10 does NOT have this Sony FS100 chipset. In fact, it's surprisingly bad. Here is what I have seen so far. When recording internally with AVCHD 60p and recording externally with prores at 30p...with slow moving scenes and even moderate moving scenes, both recordings look similar. However, if something moves quickly, the AVCHD will suddenly "soften" and in some cases even block up badly. The HDMI ProRes will NOT disply these problems. These same frames are sharp and clean. Also, the internal AVCHD dosn't hold the blacks well. Even light grading on the shadows can uncover compression noise in the blacks. (nothing at all like the FS100's ability to hold it's quality in shadows) Again, ProRes from the RX10 (Atomos Samurai Blade) is much better quality.

Now,...let me say the the RX10's codec isn't "that" bad. Allot of the motion problems are seen mostly in a "frame by frame" viewing. When watching it in real time, it's fairly well covered up. And again, most scenes with slow to moderate motion are OK. Also, I noticed that 24p AVCHD is far less likely to break down like the 60p does. I fail to understand why Sony allowed this to happen. Did they play with the long GOP structure? Was this a mistake or intentional?

All in all,....it's a damn good camera. I'm very happy with 95% of it and still surprised at how good the over all package is. (now if it just did 4K!!!)

CT

Jeff Harper · February 4th, 2014, 07:25 AM

@Phil, looking at open box deals from Amazon, but I would love to buy from one of our great sponsors!

Cliff, your report seems very consistent with most everyone else! The 29 minute limit and the slow zoom both bother me as well. With nothing else quite like it, it's the only game in town in it's price range. I wonder how a product like this will affect other manufacturers. I imagine in a short while something even MORE amazing will be released. Now that Sony and Panasonic have both released contstant F/2.8 bridge cameras I can't wait to see what's coming too the world of regular video cameras. I have believed for a long time that prosumer/low end pro video cameras with faster zoom lenses were possible, this product only confirms it.

Thanks for sharing!

Bill Bruner · February 4th, 2014, 07:56 AM

I've been very interested in the RX10 as a replacement for my old Panasonic TM900 (and maybe my GH3), so I rented an RX10 from borrowlenses a few weeks ago, but I didn't like the 28mbps AVCHD compression and I couldn't bring myself to buy a camera with a 30 minute limit, so I'm waiting for the Sony CX900 to ship in March.

Overshadowed somewhat by the RX10 and the simultaneous release of the 4K AX100, the CX900 looks like it's going to be the "RX10 in a camcorder body" - with the addition of unlimited recording time, 120fps and multiple codecs (to include 50mbps XAVC-S).

I'll miss the RX10's 8.3x constant f2.8 lens - but a 12x optical f2.8-4.5 power zoom doesn't suck ;)

The sample video from Sony looks really good, and they even have camera movement and fast moving objects (e.g., a hang glider) in the scenes, but we'll have to see more before making a final "buy" decision:

Best,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Jeff Harper · February 4th, 2014, 08:32 AM

The Sony has a 1" sensor! This is revolutionary for a $1500 videocamera! Thanks for confusing me Bill!

James Manford · February 4th, 2014, 08:54 AM

I'm liking the CX900 ... might be the perfect replacement if needed, for the CX760 I own.

Jeff Harper · February 4th, 2014, 09:19 AM

Will this sensor appear in a larger prosumer or low-end pro camcorder? Would be very interesting.

Cliff Totten · February 4th, 2014, 09:49 AM

The CX900 and the RX10 appear to have many internal similarities. (aside from the codec)

If there is one thing that drives me nuts about many "Handycams" are those goofy triangle audio meters. There are no markings for db and very few steps to judge input levels. They are not worthless, but they are very close. I'm certain this is designed to be that way ;-)

I'm sooo happy that the RX10 has "real" meters that are large and easy to measure levels.

It seems to me that the CX900 is an RX10 with much better codec and no recording limit. The CX900's lens (to me) is a downgrade though.

February 2nd, 2014, 01:46 AM	#226
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Noa, yes, please, I for one would like to see a sample of your footage. I would also appreciate your comments regarding your overall assessment of the camera not just for wedding work but as a general purpose machine compared say to your GH3. I might add that thus far I am more than delighted with the RX10 for just fooling around, the birds and the bees, landscapes, trains and rain, cats and dogs and the like. As a photographic tool I find it not too shabby too. To answer your question; yes please; I want.

February 2nd, 2014, 05:48 PM	#227
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Got to take the RX10 out on a day hike... nothing "special", but used it mostly for stills, and a couple little clips. Got to say I'm very happy with the results. 86 shots/clips, only a couple slightly out of focus (through glass shots are always tricky!), and the rest are solid "keepers"... I don't usually shoot a lot, but I kept seeing good shots, and even better results on the LCD, this is a very addictive camera to shoot with. Viewfinder was nice for outdoor shooting, although the articulating LCD made a few shots easier too. Circular Polarizer was mounted and used, at least some of the time. Had to take it off for some shots where it picked up more glare... a couple extra layers of glass can do that. Fill flash from the pop-up was handy in a couple backlit "people" shots, and was powerful enough to do the trick. The surprise was a full digital zoom (yeah, I leave that turned on, I can see the level of zoom in the display and decide whether I can live with the consequences!) shot of a hawk on a distant rock - so small we weren't sure if there was something there or not... actually got a couple "usable" shots where you can see the eye/head position and some detail... doesn't look "bad" at all, probably better than the average pocket camera at "normal" distances! The video clips were just for giggles, not worth sharing, but I think it's time to do a couple controlled shots against the 7xx series Handycam... I have a "feeling" the footage is better, but it could be just the fun of the "new toy". It's nice to feel very confident that the camera will "get the shot", and get it well. The RX100 and the Mk2 have been my "go to" carry around cameras, but of course are limited by the short zoom and aperture ramp (not like those were a "big" deal in a pocket rocket, an HX300 covered the gap when called upon). The RX10 is bigger and heavier, but still portable, and now has a small sling bag with the RX100M2 snuck in behind it, and a selection of batteries and accessories, so that's the bag that will be "handy"... Time to go look at bigger memory cards and hard drives!

February 2nd, 2014, 07:27 PM	#228
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera I shot the RX10 on a series of scenes for an image/promo piece last week. It featured a 2 horse sleigh in brilliant sun and deep snow. It was a quick decision and I had to use the EVF, which frankly, on a day like that, was pretty ineffective. After the first several shots, I did something else I've never done and switched it to autofocus. Bottom line is the footage is pretty impressive, great detail, zero moire even with a number of actors and fabrics and motion. The lens range and IQ was just great as is it's being the only camera that allows for one button slow motion on the fly with the ability to get right back to 24p 50fps with one touch. Another notable plus is how well the lens handles flare...like better than almost any lenses I've shot. Overall, because of the comprehensive R&G features, we got a lot more, clean, quality footage than I'd expect with any other small camera, including the C100 (given the 60p). I shoot Natural -3 -3 -3 and start with a Filnconvert grade to match my other cameras (in this case the BMPCC for the close-ups) When I got back from that location I immediately rigged the RX10 with a magnetic plate and the Kinotehnik LCDVF BM and now it functions like a real video camera, by far the best you'll use for any where near this price. IMO, for this type of work, with the LCDVF, the RX10 might be the best R&G camera out there.

February 3rd, 2014, 02:28 AM	#229
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera I am very happy what is coming out with this little Gem.. Last saturday I was at a great concert and filmed for pure pleasure with one of my 2 RX 10. Movie Mode 1080 50p. I like to ability to change the gain with the extra Dial "audience and the couple". Handsfree 5000 ISO Tungsten VIVID Color I was taking photos and forgot to go back to Natural. In FCP X I reduced the Color and Contrast, EQ on Sound, Video Stabilized.The Automatic is very smooth and als good exposure, no pumping from the AF. A Canon 70 D has much more noise above 400 ISO. Bought two while so relatively cheap, for Interview Situation I will use one for a closer framing and can intercut. Close up zoomed in the AF has some issues, just zoom back and in again I bought 2 Tiffen Ultracontrast Filters 1/2 and 3 need soon a 2 as good compromiss. A number 2 whould be good also for the CANON DSLR's wich crushed the blacks. The Ultracons lift the blacks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WC...ature=youtu.be Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Werner Graf; February 3rd, 2014 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Picture added

February 3rd, 2014, 04:24 AM	#230
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Youtube always change colors and Contrast... Attached Thumbnails

February 3rd, 2014, 09:36 AM	#232
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Very excited this camera will be my next purchase. Thanks for your reports, everyone.

February 3rd, 2014, 02:49 PM	#233
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Which DVINFO sponsor are you considering ordering from? wink wink...

February 3rd, 2014, 09:14 PM	#234
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Just got my new RX10 last week. I was originally expecting to have a nice "all in one" camera for vacations. Something that took "good" photos and shot "good" video. After spending a day with this camera, I realized that I completely underestimated the image quality and complete functionality of the RX10. In fact, I became downright shocked at how much better this camera actually was, compared to my original expectations. The good: The build quality is superb. It's magnesium body feels great in your hands. (close your eyes and it feels like a baby A99) The lens is fast, bright and very sharp from corner to corner at all lengths. The constant f2.8 is sweet. I also LOVE having an aperture ring on a small camera like this. You can configure features to your hearts content. The function button brings up two rows of user programmable icons to control most of the functions you could ever want. Manual audio level control, great meters and headphone monitoring. Full and seperate manual control of ISO, shutter speed and Iris. No "Handycam/NX30" crippling tricks! Full scan sensor and scalling...no line skipping = VERY sharp video. (look at slashcam.com's resolution charts...it will shock you) Clean 8bit 4:2:2 HDMI out for external recording. Perfect lens to sensor optical match up. Great image processing and excellent noise reduction The not so good: Lens zoom is not variable. It's a smooth slow crawl. (the way I like it anyway but having variable speeds would have been nice) 29 minute recording time. Yeah,..they all have it and we all know why. (I still hate it though) "OK" image stabilization. Optical-only provides best resolution. Adding "active" mode will lower resolution slightly. AVCHD Codec. This one baffles me. Sony has no problem making a great h.264 chipset on their FS100. The AVCHD standard generally is pretty damn good considering it's 8bit 4:2:0 limitation. The FS100 is especially durable and tough. The RX10 does NOT have this Sony FS100 chipset. In fact, it's surprisingly bad. Here is what I have seen so far. When recording internally with AVCHD 60p and recording externally with prores at 30p...with slow moving scenes and even moderate moving scenes, both recordings look similar. However, if something moves quickly, the AVCHD will suddenly "soften" and in some cases even block up badly. The HDMI ProRes will NOT disply these problems. These same frames are sharp and clean. Also, the internal AVCHD dosn't hold the blacks well. Even light grading on the shadows can uncover compression noise in the blacks. (nothing at all like the FS100's ability to hold it's quality in shadows) Again, ProRes from the RX10 (Atomos Samurai Blade) is much better quality. Now,...let me say the the RX10's codec isn't "that" bad. Allot of the motion problems are seen mostly in a "frame by frame" viewing. When watching it in real time, it's fairly well covered up. And again, most scenes with slow to moderate motion are OK. Also, I noticed that 24p AVCHD is far less likely to break down like the 60p does. I fail to understand why Sony allowed this to happen. Did they play with the long GOP structure? Was this a mistake or intentional? All in all,....it's a damn good camera. I'm very happy with 95% of it and still surprised at how good the over all package is. (now if it just did 4K!!!) CT

February 4th, 2014, 07:25 AM	#235
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera @Phil, looking at open box deals from Amazon, but I would love to buy from one of our great sponsors! Cliff, your report seems very consistent with most everyone else! The 29 minute limit and the slow zoom both bother me as well. With nothing else quite like it, it's the only game in town in it's price range. I wonder how a product like this will affect other manufacturers. I imagine in a short while something even MORE amazing will be released. Now that Sony and Panasonic have both released contstant F/2.8 bridge cameras I can't wait to see what's coming too the world of regular video cameras. I have believed for a long time that prosumer/low end pro video cameras with faster zoom lenses were possible, this product only confirms it. Thanks for sharing!

February 4th, 2014, 07:56 AM	#236
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera I've been very interested in the RX10 as a replacement for my old Panasonic TM900 (and maybe my GH3), so I rented an RX10 from borrowlenses a few weeks ago, but I didn't like the 28mbps AVCHD compression and I couldn't bring myself to buy a camera with a 30 minute limit, so I'm waiting for the Sony CX900 to ship in March. Overshadowed somewhat by the RX10 and the simultaneous release of the 4K AX100, the CX900 looks like it's going to be the "RX10 in a camcorder body" - with the addition of unlimited recording time, 120fps and multiple codecs (to include 50mbps XAVC-S). I'll miss the RX10's 8.3x constant f2.8 lens - but a 12x optical f2.8-4.5 power zoom doesn't suck ;) The sample video from Sony looks really good, and they even have camera movement and fast moving objects (e.g., a hang glider) in the scenes, but we'll have to see more before making a final "buy" decision: Sample Movie for Handycam HDR-CX900 - YouTube Best, Bill Hybrid Camera Revolution

February 4th, 2014, 08:32 AM	#237
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera The Sony has a 1" sensor! This is revolutionary for a $1500 videocamera! Thanks for confusing me Bill!

February 4th, 2014, 08:54 AM	#238
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera I'm liking the CX900 ... might be the perfect replacement if needed, for the CX760 I own.

February 4th, 2014, 09:19 AM	#239
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera Will this sensor appear in a larger prosumer or low-end pro camcorder? Would be very interesting.

February 4th, 2014, 09:49 AM	#240
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera The CX900 and the RX10 appear to have many internal similarities. (aside from the codec) If there is one thing that drives me nuts about many "Handycams" are those goofy triangle audio meters. There are no markings for db and very few steps to judge input levels. They are not worthless, but they are very close. I'm certain this is designed to be that way ;-) I'm sooo happy that the RX10 has "real" meters that are large and easy to measure levels. It seems to me that the CX900 is an RX10 with much better codec and no recording limit. The CX900's lens (to me) is a downgrade though.