Sony RX10 HD camera

Arthur Gannis · October 20th, 2013, 08:18 PM

That CZ lens alone is worth the price. Canon and Pana have to come up with something fast. This is getting interesting.

Dave Blackhurst · October 21st, 2013, 12:45 AM

I saw a couple of "interesting" things in the menu review from that reviewer... and the clickless aperture in another of his videos looked like a real handy feature - notably, I didn't hear any zoom motor noise either... looks like there is a LOT of video "DNA" cooked into this camera. Shipping looked to be in early Dec... why does that suddenly seem like a long time? It would be nice to see some footage shot by someone who doesn't swing the camera around like a drunken sailor and knows how to control a Sony camera for optimal footage.

Shot more casual family footage today with the RX100M2/HX300 combo... the additional zoom of the RX10 would have been nice to have... having additional optical zoom in the HX300 got the shots (OK, so it goes to 1200mm... but 200 optical to 400 in clear zoom would have been "enough" most of the time) where the RX100 just didn't have the reach... and f/2.8.... yeah, that'll be the ticket! I still like the two cameras as a complementary "package", but the RX10 will cover an awful lot of the ground and add some new tricks.

I know the FF A7 and A7r were the "big story" announcements, but this little cam is quite a bit more interesting (and relatively affordable compared to putting together a new E mount FF "kit"!).

Clive McLaughlin · October 21st, 2013, 01:02 PM

People are claiming this is the end of the high end handycam market. Only if it records in autofocus. I for one would be considering it as an unmanned b-cam. But it would have to have autofocus. Is that likely?

Also, why in the hell would you do sample footage of this camera and not shoot at 2.8? It has nd filter built in. Show us 2.8 and low light!!

Arthur Gannis · October 21st, 2013, 01:08 PM

Of course it has auto focus. And a really fast one too using piezo technology. It autofocuses in Photo AND Video mode as you are shooting. Low light capability should really be amazing as it has a backlit sensor design in it. This thing is going to sell like crazy. All my other cameras are going up for sale,

Noa Put · October 21st, 2013, 01:11 PM

Want to see something done by a experienced user, current footage available doesn't look very good.

Clive McLaughlin · October 21st, 2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis

Of course it has auto focus. And a really fast one too using piezo technology. It autofocuses in Photo AND Video mode as you are shooting. Low light capability should really be amazing as it has a backlit sensor design in it. This thing is going to sell like crazy. All my other cameras are going up for sale,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but will the technology to autofocus at f2.8 at 200mm not have to be very good? I mean, if the auto gets confused, that DOF will jump badly. Am I wrong?

Noa Put · October 21st, 2013, 02:45 PM

Autofocus is always unreliable, especially on a dslr with a shallower dof.

Dave Blackhurst · October 21st, 2013, 03:02 PM

One of the touted features (albeit for stills) is the ability to "eye focus" - meaning the focus is capable not just of focusing on a face, but on the EYE of a subject... and keeping it in focus. I don't know why the same AF system would not be used by the video side of the equation. So yes, it should do just fine as an unmanned camera (what a waste, but...) - keep in mind the 29 minute clip limit.

The auto focus on the RX100M2 is very good. Struggles a little in difficult light, but no worse than any other camera, and I'd say better than most. NO AF system is "perfect", they can all be fooled under the "right" conditions.

What little footage is available (from ONE reviewer who definitely is NOT a video shooter) is pretty tough to use as a "sampling". I'd suggest finding people who are using the RX100M2 for video and use that as a yardstick, expect more lens range and better low light performance... but the basic sensor performance should be in the general ballpark.

I suspect Sony saw this as a STILL camera first, and some engineer that defected from the HandyCam department realized what the potential was for video... but most likely the reviewers are based on "it looks like a still camera" - meaning they may well be drowning in the deep end when presented with a camera with an extensive VIDEO subset. I still see that many STILL shooters don't give a hoot about the video "features"... and as a consequence don't have the slightest idea how to set them or properly show capabilities.

Ron Evans · October 21st, 2013, 03:41 PM

I don't leave autofocus on for the unattended cameras. But i do setup with touch spot focus and I have not seen that mentioned for the RX10 though would be very useful.

Ron Evans

Dave Blackhurst · October 21st, 2013, 05:06 PM

No touch screen, but zebras and peaking... can't have everything I guess, touch focus/exposure certainly would be handy!

Arthur Gannis · October 22nd, 2013, 06:41 AM

This shallow depth of field thing got a few brides irritated when they asked me if I had eye problems or I cannot focus right. They do not understand how that effect/look means and wouldn't give a hoot about. In a way, I regret at times spending the extra time setting up the shots for it, I mean if a few do not appreciate , then I just don't have the time or the desire to start editing those scenes out. Especially with the very affordable prices I charge. I do quite a lot of business by meeting the customer's budget. I am not saying that my prices are in the el cheapo category, but when the work has to go out in a timely manner, I have no intention to burn the midnight oil. so they say. Anyway, this is( shallow depth of field) what many clients want because they are always seeing all the fancy stuff that others are offering and so most of them want that too. I would rather concentrate on getting the "basics" than spending time at the event to figure out some scenes for that bokeh and defocus look. Over the years, I have had most compliments on how thorough I captured the day rather than the few effects I included. As far as image quality is concerned, most don't care that much unless it is noticeable inferior to what is going around,and cannot see the difference between a little bit of moire or not.I am talking in general although I had a few that are really into the high tech arena and are even asking for 4K capture. I am not changing or upgrading just to please a few especially when they won't pay the big price hike. if thee are any complaints it is usually because of the content ( if any) missed or how steady the camera is. They sure put a lot of scrutiny on the audio though. Sure, I could go for the Sony A7 to get that extra bit of quality but my average client won't ever say what a sharp and clear video you got there over the competition. They would only compliment on that if there is a huge difference from what they are usually used to seeing.

Nigel Barker · November 2nd, 2013, 03:23 AM

Gordon Laing has posted some short clips from the RX10 on Vimeo with the original .mts files available for download. The detail looks pretty amazing & it's noise free at ISO3200. The continuous AF is impressive too.

BTW Brits may know Gordon Laing as the former editor of Personal Computer World which was Britain’s first and longest-running IT magazine until it went out of business in 2009. He has obviously found a new niche doing camera reviews Camera reviews, DSLR reviews, lens reviews, photography guides | Cameralabs

Dave Blackhurst · November 5th, 2013, 03:09 PM

Interesting quotes from the mind (KImio Maki) behind the RX10, from a DPReview interview:

"The RX10 is different - that's the camera I wanted for events, like sport, when my children are playing soccer and basketball. The lenses on the RX100 and RX1 aren’t long enough for that. Also for movies - as you know we use every pixel on the sensor for video recording, therefore the movie quality is better than some professional video systems."

I think it's interesting that this was DESIGNED to be an "event" camera - may well have unexpected strengths "under the hood" once we get hands on 'em!

The article is an interesting read, you get to see where a manufacturer finds themselves with the "smartphone/tablet" rapidly shifting the imaging market - looks like we will see more "professional" orientation than "consumer" cameras...

John McCully · November 5th, 2013, 03:47 PM

Yesterday I spoke with my reseller who in turn spoke with Sony New Zealand. ‘Will need to be in fast if he wants one before Christmas’ was the response. Stock arriving 12/12.

I place an order. I shall keep you posted :-)

Arthur Gannis · November 5th, 2013, 07:19 PM

Some suggestions for Mr.Maki for the RX10 ll
using the same zoom lens formula and sensor size

1- Interchangeable lens mount, come up with an affordable series of fast 1.4 primes or a F2 short zoom
2- No rec. time limit
3- Drop the AVCHD
4-XLR MIC inputs, placed somewhere on a optional 2 battery grip
5-Rear screen should flip to the left
6-A 4K video sensor would also be nice
7- Keep the same price

October 20th, 2013, 08:18 PM	#46
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera That CZ lens alone is worth the price. Canon and Pana have to come up with something fast. This is getting interesting.

October 21st, 2013, 12:45 AM	#47
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera I saw a couple of "interesting" things in the menu review from that reviewer... and the clickless aperture in another of his videos looked like a real handy feature - notably, I didn't hear any zoom motor noise either... looks like there is a LOT of video "DNA" cooked into this camera. Shipping looked to be in early Dec... why does that suddenly seem like a long time? It would be nice to see some footage shot by someone who doesn't swing the camera around like a drunken sailor and knows how to control a Sony camera for optimal footage. Shot more casual family footage today with the RX100M2/HX300 combo... the additional zoom of the RX10 would have been nice to have... having additional optical zoom in the HX300 got the shots (OK, so it goes to 1200mm... but 200 optical to 400 in clear zoom would have been "enough" most of the time) where the RX100 just didn't have the reach... and f/2.8.... yeah, that'll be the ticket! I still like the two cameras as a complementary "package", but the RX10 will cover an awful lot of the ground and add some new tricks. I know the FF A7 and A7r were the "big story" announcements, but this little cam is quite a bit more interesting (and relatively affordable compared to putting together a new E mount FF "kit"!).

October 21st, 2013, 01:02 PM	#48
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera People are claiming this is the end of the high end handycam market. Only if it records in autofocus. I for one would be considering it as an unmanned b-cam. But it would have to have autofocus. Is that likely? Also, why in the hell would you do sample footage of this camera and not shoot at 2.8? It has nd filter built in. Show us 2.8 and low light!!

October 21st, 2013, 01:08 PM	#49
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Of course it has auto focus. And a really fast one too using piezo technology. It autofocuses in Photo AND Video mode as you are shooting. Low light capability should really be amazing as it has a backlit sensor design in it. This thing is going to sell like crazy. All my other cameras are going up for sale,

October 21st, 2013, 01:11 PM	#50
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Want to see something done by a experienced user, current footage available doesn't look very good.

October 21st, 2013, 02:45 PM	#52
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Autofocus is always unreliable, especially on a dslr with a shallower dof.

October 21st, 2013, 03:02 PM	#53
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera One of the touted features (albeit for stills) is the ability to "eye focus" - meaning the focus is capable not just of focusing on a face, but on the EYE of a subject... and keeping it in focus. I don't know why the same AF system would not be used by the video side of the equation. So yes, it should do just fine as an unmanned camera (what a waste, but...) - keep in mind the 29 minute clip limit. The auto focus on the RX100M2 is very good. Struggles a little in difficult light, but no worse than any other camera, and I'd say better than most. NO AF system is "perfect", they can all be fooled under the "right" conditions. What little footage is available (from ONE reviewer who definitely is NOT a video shooter) is pretty tough to use as a "sampling". I'd suggest finding people who are using the RX100M2 for video and use that as a yardstick, expect more lens range and better low light performance... but the basic sensor performance should be in the general ballpark. I suspect Sony saw this as a STILL camera first, and some engineer that defected from the HandyCam department realized what the potential was for video... but most likely the reviewers are based on "it looks like a still camera" - meaning they may well be drowning in the deep end when presented with a camera with an extensive VIDEO subset. I still see that many STILL shooters don't give a hoot about the video "features"... and as a consequence don't have the slightest idea how to set them or properly show capabilities.

October 21st, 2013, 03:41 PM	#54
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera I don't leave autofocus on for the unattended cameras. But i do setup with touch spot focus and I have not seen that mentioned for the RX10 though would be very useful. Ron Evans

October 21st, 2013, 05:06 PM	#55
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera No touch screen, but zebras and peaking... can't have everything I guess, touch focus/exposure certainly would be handy!

October 22nd, 2013, 06:41 AM	#56
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera This shallow depth of field thing got a few brides irritated when they asked me if I had eye problems or I cannot focus right. They do not understand how that effect/look means and wouldn't give a hoot about. In a way, I regret at times spending the extra time setting up the shots for it, I mean if a few do not appreciate , then I just don't have the time or the desire to start editing those scenes out. Especially with the very affordable prices I charge. I do quite a lot of business by meeting the customer's budget. I am not saying that my prices are in the el cheapo category, but when the work has to go out in a timely manner, I have no intention to burn the midnight oil. so they say. Anyway, this is( shallow depth of field) what many clients want because they are always seeing all the fancy stuff that others are offering and so most of them want that too. I would rather concentrate on getting the "basics" than spending time at the event to figure out some scenes for that bokeh and defocus look. Over the years, I have had most compliments on how thorough I captured the day rather than the few effects I included. As far as image quality is concerned, most don't care that much unless it is noticeable inferior to what is going around,and cannot see the difference between a little bit of moire or not.I am talking in general although I had a few that are really into the high tech arena and are even asking for 4K capture. I am not changing or upgrading just to please a few especially when they won't pay the big price hike. if thee are any complaints it is usually because of the content ( if any) missed or how steady the camera is. They sure put a lot of scrutiny on the audio though. Sure, I could go for the Sony A7 to get that extra bit of quality but my average client won't ever say what a sharp and clear video you got there over the competition. They would only compliment on that if there is a huge difference from what they are usually used to seeing. Last edited by Arthur Gannis; October 22nd, 2013 at 06:29 PM.

November 2nd, 2013, 03:23 AM	#57
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Gordon Laing has posted some short clips from the RX10 on Vimeo with the original .mts files available for download. The detail looks pretty amazing & it's noise free at ISO3200. The continuous AF is impressive too. Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: static zoom on Vimeo Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: 1080 / 60p and 3200 ISO on Vimeo Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: continuous AF at 400 ISO on Vimeo Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: continuous AF focus pulling at 400 ISO on Vimeo Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: manual focus pulling on Vimeo Sony Cyber-shot RX10 sample movie: low light handheld pan 1080 / 60i at 1600 ISO on Vimeo BTW Brits may know Gordon Laing as the former editor of Personal Computer World which was Britain’s first and longest-running IT magazine until it went out of business in 2009. He has obviously found a new niche doing camera reviews Camera reviews, DSLR reviews, lens reviews, photography guides \| Cameralabs

November 5th, 2013, 03:09 PM	#58
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Interesting quotes from the mind (KImio Maki) behind the RX10, from a DPReview interview: "The RX10 is different - that's the camera I wanted for events, like sport, when my children are playing soccer and basketball. The lenses on the RX100 and RX1 aren’t long enough for that. Also for movies - as you know we use every pixel on the sensor for video recording, therefore the movie quality is better than some professional video systems." I think it's interesting that this was DESIGNED to be an "event" camera - may well have unexpected strengths "under the hood" once we get hands on 'em! The article is an interesting read, you get to see where a manufacturer finds themselves with the "smartphone/tablet" rapidly shifting the imaging market - looks like we will see more "professional" orientation than "consumer" cameras...

November 5th, 2013, 03:47 PM	#59
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Yesterday I spoke with my reseller who in turn spoke with Sony New Zealand. ‘Will need to be in fast if he wants one before Christmas’ was the response. Stock arriving 12/12. I place an order. I shall keep you posted :-)

November 5th, 2013, 07:19 PM	#60
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Sony RX10 HD camera Some suggestions for Mr.Maki for the RX10 ll using the same zoom lens formula and sensor size 1- Interchangeable lens mount, come up with an affordable series of fast 1.4 primes or a F2 short zoom 2- No rec. time limit 3- Drop the AVCHD 4-XLR MIC inputs, placed somewhere on a optional 2 battery grip 5-Rear screen should flip to the left 6-A 4K video sensor would also be nice 7- Keep the same price