Sony introduces HDR-CX700v 1080p60 camcorder

Jack Zhang · January 12th, 2011, 06:12 AM

The Pro market almost got 1080p60 with AVC-Ultra. (which is now vaporware)

Marc Salvatore · January 20th, 2011, 04:59 PM

Gee... it sure would be nice if my $1500 MC-50 had peaking, expanded focus and zebras. Especially considering this is in the Sony Pro Line.

Dave Blackhurst · January 21st, 2011, 01:28 PM

Marc -
That and the CX550!! I have to wonder if Sony could produce a firmware upgrade - I'd bet the hardware is CAPABLE, just not enabled. Really would be a great customer relations move to "upgrade" some of these "basic" features for the "older camera" - might even make me MORE of a buyer of Sonys "stuff" if they did such a thing....

In fact it did just influence a BR player purchase - and it was easy to update the thing!! Now it supposedly does 3D... not that I even plan on a 3DTV, but hmmmm... since the capability is there...

Companies could build a lot of "brand loyalty" by simple and easy firmware updates, IMO!

Marc Salvatore · January 21st, 2011, 04:19 PM

Dave,

I completely agree. Even my SR-11 has Zebra stripes! How could a camera like the MC-50 not? Unfortunately Sony will probably try and sell an MC-60 that has all the additional features. But who knows perhaps they will do the right thing considering the MC-50 is a newly released camera and the 550 is basically the same model. One can hope.

Bill Koehler · January 21st, 2011, 05:49 PM

I'm looking for a NEX-VG20 that has:
1. The E-mount and lens options that go with it.
2. An updated sensor that supports the new frame rates.
3. The brains & features of this new HDR camcorder. My HDR-HC9 has peaking & zebras also...

And while your at it Sony, leave the LCD and VF on when the user hooks something up to the HDMI.
I happen to like my control surfaces active at the same time as my larger external monitor.

Jack Zhang · January 21st, 2011, 10:18 PM

Don't forget that 28mbps is still too compressed for 1080p60. 48-50mbps or more is better, but then again, it's still 4:2:0...

When a decent bitrate and 4:2:2 are in the mix, that's when the pros start noticing 1080p60 become a new standard for acquisition formats.

Once again, I will re-iterate that AVC-Ultra when it was announced 2 years ago was going to be that "magic codec" that had the tech specs to back up quality 1080p60 acquisition. But then it vanished and no products came out of it... Hopefully this year's NAB will see the revival of the codec since consumer 1080p60 cameras making the market.

Paul Cronin · January 23rd, 2011, 12:35 PM

When did Sony stop using LANC on their consumer cameras?

Ron Evans · January 23rd, 2011, 12:56 PM

I think LANC is still on all Sony camcorders. It now appears on the A/V connector. LANC isn't just the 1/8" plug its the protocol that has been available even on the 5pin DIN plug on SVHS decks. Adapters are available to convert from the A/V 10pin plug to the 1/8" jack. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/643923-REG/VariZoom_VZ_AV_LANC_Mini_Audio_Video_to_LANC.html
Ron Evans

Paul Cronin · January 23rd, 2011, 12:59 PM

Thanks Ron great input.

Dave Blackhurst · January 23rd, 2011, 01:41 PM

HI Paul -
The Sony Sport Packs which you're familiar with, use the LANC protocol via the A/V "D" shaped plug. They also have released a couple other LANC/remotes for that plug - the functionality has been there since around the HC3, but for a couple years no one at Sony seemed to know anything about it.

I figured it out from the service manuals and reverse engineering the Sport packs and figured out how to hack the plug - you can adapt the "old" 2.5mm plug LANCs to use the A/V port, and "most" of the functions work exactly as expected, depending on the implementation in the camera and the controller. Just mainly an interface issue - Sony decided to "hide" the functions under a layer of new and different portt configurations (I'm about 99% sure there's another interface point in the AiShoe, Canon also used that!).

This is one of those reasons I am about 99% sure that Sony COULD release a firmware update that would "unlock" some of the "new features" if they would realize that it would make SOME customers happy, increase brand loyalty, and increase the ongoing value of their products in the marketplace!

I wish I were a bit more knowledgeable in the software/firmware department, but I'm more "hardware" oriented - I should think that a magic lantern or GH13 sort of firmware hack would not be out of the realm of possibilty - I guess no one out there is that interested in "hacking" Sony gear, unfortunately! And my experience has been that (at least Sony US) they don't even know what the "official" features offer - I made multiple contacts about the LANC when I was first contemplating the A/V jack hack, and not one C/S person had any idea about it!

Ron Evans · January 23rd, 2011, 02:00 PM

LANC is the maintenance interface for the Sony camcorders so they are unlikely to explain things to you Dave. There were various controllers that work to do things like mask dead pixels etc and enable disable features. This was of more interest in Europe as the ability to record was disabled in lots of camcorders because this would have resulted in them being taxed/tariff at a different rate. The hacks allowed them to be turned on afterward even though this would have voided the warranty. For a while the maintenance remote was available and I missed the opportunity to get one.It is the RM95 Picture & Link: RM-95 : Sony Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review. However you also need the code book!!!

Ron Evans

Dave Blackhurst · January 24th, 2011, 02:06 PM

They pop up on eBay once in a while (RM95's), but I have to wonder how much use they will be on the "newer" cameras - and what level of "hacks" would actually be available.

If I understand current designs, the LANC interface would be limited to the "basics" (existing manual controls), where I think most of us want to access "chip level" commands - allowing access to features that are there on "new" cameras, but were likely left unactivated on the "old" models, even thought the potential capability may well have been there! That's more firmware tweaking.

I know Sony has issues firware updates on rare occaisions for various cameras, usually user installable via a downloaded file copied to a memory stick, so in theory it could be done if in fact the features are there and the firmware code was available to be hacked, or updates were released by Sony directly.

Heck, just got a Sony BR player (finally decided it was time to join the party...), and once network connected, it updated two firmware revisions, and now can do 3D (even if I'm not ready for THAT party just yet!)... of course that WAS an "advertised" feature, but obviously when the player was RTM, the code wasn't up to snuff, so they released the player without 3D, to be "added" via firmware updates later in the product life cycle.

My point being that devices now are routinely run by advanced highly integrated chips, and MARKETING or engineering deadlines decide which features do or do not make the "final cut", then "next year" the features, using either identical or nearly identical hardware suddenly become "available".

I have a really hard time believing that my CX550V's, which I'm quite happy with (like the 3.5" screen, and NOT really wanting to go "backwards"!), are incapable of having peaking, zebras, and 24 and 60p... I MIGHT consider upgrading a CX500 to a CX600... maybe... but that camera too is quite adequate for what I ask of it, just would be nice to have the features, or the capability to add them via a firmware update. Feels like driving a Ferrari with a speedometer limiter on it - an arbitrary limitation of the capabilites of the machine!

Ron Evans · January 24th, 2011, 02:34 PM

Unless Sony have changed to using the USB interface on the camera for maintenance ( which would make a lot of sense) then I expect the LANC interface is still usable. They are just ways to get into the microprocessor that controls the camera. In both cases though the maintenance access code is needed before anything can be accessed. Otherwise its just the camera control interface just like the IR remote or tripod controller.

Ron Evans

Jason Lowe · January 25th, 2011, 01:50 PM

The specs on Sony Style say that it has "remote commander" interface. Isn't that what Sony calls their LANC controllers?

Adam Gold · January 25th, 2011, 02:03 PM

No, that's what they call their wireless IR remotes.

January 23rd, 2011, 12:35 PM	#22
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	When did Sony stop using LANC on their consumer cameras? __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

January 23rd, 2011, 12:59 PM	#24
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Thanks Ron great input. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

January 25th, 2011, 02:03 PM	#30
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	No, that's what they call their wireless IR remotes. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 12th, 2011, 06:12 AM	#16
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	The Pro market almost got 1080p60 with AVC-Ultra. (which is now vaporware)

January 20th, 2011, 04:59 PM	#17
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Gee... it sure would be nice if my $1500 MC-50 had peaking, expanded focus and zebras. Especially considering this is in the Sony Pro Line.

January 21st, 2011, 01:28 PM	#18
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Marc - That and the CX550!! I have to wonder if Sony could produce a firmware upgrade - I'd bet the hardware is CAPABLE, just not enabled. Really would be a great customer relations move to "upgrade" some of these "basic" features for the "older camera" - might even make me MORE of a buyer of Sonys "stuff" if they did such a thing.... In fact it did just influence a BR player purchase - and it was easy to update the thing!! Now it supposedly does 3D... not that I even plan on a 3DTV, but hmmmm... since the capability is there... Companies could build a lot of "brand loyalty" by simple and easy firmware updates, IMO!

January 21st, 2011, 04:19 PM	#19
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Dave, I completely agree. Even my SR-11 has Zebra stripes! How could a camera like the MC-50 not? Unfortunately Sony will probably try and sell an MC-60 that has all the additional features. But who knows perhaps they will do the right thing considering the MC-50 is a newly released camera and the 550 is basically the same model. One can hope.

January 21st, 2011, 05:49 PM	#20
Bill Koehler Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA Posts: 760	I'm looking for a NEX-VG20 that has: 1. The E-mount and lens options that go with it. 2. An updated sensor that supports the new frame rates. 3. The brains & features of this new HDR camcorder. My HDR-HC9 has peaking & zebras also... And while your at it Sony, leave the LCD and VF on when the user hooks something up to the HDMI. I happen to like my control surfaces active at the same time as my larger external monitor.

January 21st, 2011, 10:18 PM	#21
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Don't forget that 28mbps is still too compressed for 1080p60. 48-50mbps or more is better, but then again, it's still 4:2:0... When a decent bitrate and 4:2:2 are in the mix, that's when the pros start noticing 1080p60 become a new standard for acquisition formats. Once again, I will re-iterate that AVC-Ultra when it was announced 2 years ago was going to be that "magic codec" that had the tech specs to back up quality 1080p60 acquisition. But then it vanished and no products came out of it... Hopefully this year's NAB will see the revival of the codec since consumer 1080p60 cameras making the market.

January 23rd, 2011, 12:56 PM	#23
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I think LANC is still on all Sony camcorders. It now appears on the A/V connector. LANC isn't just the 1/8" plug its the protocol that has been available even on the 5pin DIN plug on SVHS decks. Adapters are available to convert from the A/V 10pin plug to the 1/8" jack. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/643923-REG/VariZoom_VZ_AV_LANC_Mini_Audio_Video_to_LANC.html Ron Evans

January 23rd, 2011, 01:41 PM	#25
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	HI Paul - The Sony Sport Packs which you're familiar with, use the LANC protocol via the A/V "D" shaped plug. They also have released a couple other LANC/remotes for that plug - the functionality has been there since around the HC3, but for a couple years no one at Sony seemed to know anything about it. I figured it out from the service manuals and reverse engineering the Sport packs and figured out how to hack the plug - you can adapt the "old" 2.5mm plug LANCs to use the A/V port, and "most" of the functions work exactly as expected, depending on the implementation in the camera and the controller. Just mainly an interface issue - Sony decided to "hide" the functions under a layer of new and different portt configurations (I'm about 99% sure there's another interface point in the AiShoe, Canon also used that!). This is one of those reasons I am about 99% sure that Sony COULD release a firmware update that would "unlock" some of the "new features" if they would realize that it would make SOME customers happy, increase brand loyalty, and increase the ongoing value of their products in the marketplace! I wish I were a bit more knowledgeable in the software/firmware department, but I'm more "hardware" oriented - I should think that a magic lantern or GH13 sort of firmware hack would not be out of the realm of possibilty - I guess no one out there is that interested in "hacking" Sony gear, unfortunately! And my experience has been that (at least Sony US) they don't even know what the "official" features offer - I made multiple contacts about the LANC when I was first contemplating the A/V jack hack, and not one C/S person had any idea about it!

January 23rd, 2011, 02:00 PM	#26
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	LANC is the maintenance interface for the Sony camcorders so they are unlikely to explain things to you Dave. There were various controllers that work to do things like mask dead pixels etc and enable disable features. This was of more interest in Europe as the ability to record was disabled in lots of camcorders because this would have resulted in them being taxed/tariff at a different rate. The hacks allowed them to be turned on afterward even though this would have voided the warranty. For a while the maintenance remote was available and I missed the opportunity to get one.It is the RM95 Picture & Link: RM-95 : Sony Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review. However you also need the code book!!! Ron Evans

January 24th, 2011, 02:06 PM	#27
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	They pop up on eBay once in a while (RM95's), but I have to wonder how much use they will be on the "newer" cameras - and what level of "hacks" would actually be available. If I understand current designs, the LANC interface would be limited to the "basics" (existing manual controls), where I think most of us want to access "chip level" commands - allowing access to features that are there on "new" cameras, but were likely left unactivated on the "old" models, even thought the potential capability may well have been there! That's more firmware tweaking. I know Sony has issues firware updates on rare occaisions for various cameras, usually user installable via a downloaded file copied to a memory stick, so in theory it could be done if in fact the features are there and the firmware code was available to be hacked, or updates were released by Sony directly. Heck, just got a Sony BR player (finally decided it was time to join the party...), and once network connected, it updated two firmware revisions, and now can do 3D (even if I'm not ready for THAT party just yet!)... of course that WAS an "advertised" feature, but obviously when the player was RTM, the code wasn't up to snuff, so they released the player without 3D, to be "added" via firmware updates later in the product life cycle. My point being that devices now are routinely run by advanced highly integrated chips, and MARKETING or engineering deadlines decide which features do or do not make the "final cut", then "next year" the features, using either identical or nearly identical hardware suddenly become "available". I have a really hard time believing that my CX550V's, which I'm quite happy with (like the 3.5" screen, and NOT really wanting to go "backwards"!), are incapable of having peaking, zebras, and 24 and 60p... I MIGHT consider upgrading a CX500 to a CX600... maybe... but that camera too is quite adequate for what I ask of it, just would be nice to have the features, or the capability to add them via a firmware update. Feels like driving a Ferrari with a speedometer limiter on it - an arbitrary limitation of the capabilites of the machine!

January 24th, 2011, 02:34 PM	#28
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Unless Sony have changed to using the USB interface on the camera for maintenance ( which would make a lot of sense) then I expect the LANC interface is still usable. They are just ways to get into the microprocessor that controls the camera. In both cases though the maintenance access code is needed before anything can be accessed. Otherwise its just the camera control interface just like the IR remote or tripod controller. Ron Evans

January 25th, 2011, 01:50 PM	#29
Jason Lowe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Smithfield, Pennsylvania Posts: 226	The specs on Sony Style say that it has "remote commander" interface. Isn't that what Sony calls their LANC controllers?