Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? at DVinfo.net

Kamil Papiez · January 10th, 2014, 09:34 PM

I know FS700 at high frame rates records visible flicker.

Do you have any light recommendations for recording slow motion with FS700 indoor (club) in controlled environment?

Thanks a lot.

Kamil

Shaun Roemich · January 11th, 2014, 01:17 AM

Non-ballasted lights. Tungsten would be ideal.

Bryan Scott · January 11th, 2014, 12:43 PM

I'm a fan of Plasma lights for shooting off speed work. I built my own from Topanga Technologies to run on batteries but the light head came with an AC to DC converter. They build their technology for indoor high-bay and outdoor street lighting applications. If you want to order the technology already built into a production fixture and ready for location shooting see Hive Lighting those guys have several fixtures to choose from. Hive is using tech from both Topanga Technologies and Luxim Corp. the two main competitors in plasma lighting. There is no flicker just an illuminated high temperature plasma powered by an RF source. The color temperature is 5600K but I believe there's a warmer temp available. The closest you'll get to portable sunshine and like the sun no flicker.

Hive Products | Hive Lighting

L.A. start-up's plasma lights help turn film and TV shoots green - Los Angeles Times

Topanga Technologies

Home - LUXIM: Light Emitting Plasma

Here are some Hive clips

Oren Arieli · January 11th, 2014, 05:53 PM

With the Phantom, I've seen great results with the Zylight F8 LED fresnels. If you go with tungsten, it should be a large bulb unit, which has less time to cool (and dim) during phase cycles. There is also a post production technique of combining flickering frames on a timeline out of phase (1 frame off) so that the dimming/brightening cycles average out. I haven't tried that personally. Best to get it right from the beginning.

Bryan Scott · January 12th, 2014, 12:57 AM

LED's can produce good results for high frame rates but because of their lower lumen output I'd only considered them as an option for smaller tighter filming areas for slow-motion recording. "Clubs" or stage will likely require more candles of fill, especially shooting slowmo. The Zylight F8 LED isn't bad, dont get me wrong and at 8000 Lux its one of the best LED spec's I've read recently, thanks for the tip Oren.

But plasmas can deliver 20,000 and 50,000-lumen output fixture heads. I know that Hive lighting is using a 22,000-lumen lamp. I'm not sure if they've implemented the newer 50,000-lumen lamp yet. I'm working with one of the plasma manufacturers now to secure one for a parachuting night record where light weight, size and portable battery power are the driving factors because the light head has to be carried on a helmet, LED's just cant compete at this time. Here's an example of a recent plasma application I shot in the skies outside of Los Angeles last October.

Here's some Photometric data from Hive Lighting below.

Here is a Lux to Foot Candle converter to help you with the above tables.
Lux to Foot-Candles Conversion Calculator

On the tungsten fresnel side I also found the larger the better to fight flicker. I think it has to do with the thermal mass which carries over and masks "some of the flicker" which Oren suggested. When we did tests in our studio last year we found a 1k tungsten fresnel absolutely failed the flicker test with the FS700. We tried a 2k tungsten fresnel and that produced satisfactory results and the best results we had was with a really old 4k light running off 2 separate dimmers. The light contained 4 1K bulbs and may have been running off opposing electrical phases, I cant be sure we didn't meter it.

So for cheep options and slower frame-rates up to 480 fps I think tungsten fresnels or soft lights would fit the bill and cover a "club" environment in a 2K or larger tungsten fresnel. Keep in mind these will heat up a room faster than LED or plasma lighting. You may want to shoot the light through some diffusion panels to spread out the light with all three technologies, it depends on your distance and how large an area you're talking about.

I've also read about mixed results with HMI lighting but cant comment on gear I haven't tested.

Kamil how big is the area do you need to fill for slow motion filming? Do you know what frame-rate you want to shoot at? Tell us something about the space and what you are shooting?

Mark Bolding · January 12th, 2014, 06:48 PM

I was surprised to find out my Cool Lights Diva style fluorescent fixtures didn't flicker in a test I shot at night in my kitchen last week.

I used one 4 bulb fixture on the beer pour and another 4 bulb fixture on the background, both with Osram tungsten bulbs. There were also 3 led highhats that work in the background area that I bought at Home Depot when I renovated the kitchen.

January 10th, 2014, 09:34 PM	#1
Kamil Papiez Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1	Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? I know FS700 at high frame rates records visible flicker. Do you have any light recommendations for recording slow motion with FS700 indoor (club) in controlled environment? Thanks a lot. Kamil

January 11th, 2014, 01:17 AM	#2
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Re: Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? Non-ballasted lights. Tungsten would be ideal. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 11th, 2014, 12:43 PM	#3
Bryan Scott New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 21	Re: Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? I'm a fan of Plasma lights for shooting off speed work. I built my own from Topanga Technologies to run on batteries but the light head came with an AC to DC converter. They build their technology for indoor high-bay and outdoor street lighting applications. If you want to order the technology already built into a production fixture and ready for location shooting see Hive Lighting those guys have several fixtures to choose from. Hive is using tech from both Topanga Technologies and Luxim Corp. the two main competitors in plasma lighting. There is no flicker just an illuminated high temperature plasma powered by an RF source. The color temperature is 5600K but I believe there's a warmer temp available. The closest you'll get to portable sunshine and like the sun no flicker. Hive Products \| Hive Lighting L.A. start-up's plasma lights help turn film and TV shoots green - Los Angeles Times Topanga Technologies Home - LUXIM: Light Emitting Plasma Here are some Hive clips High Speed Ballistics 50,000 fps on Vimeo Last edited by Bryan Scott; January 11th, 2014 at 01:27 PM. Reason: added url

January 11th, 2014, 05:53 PM	#4
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	Re: Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? With the Phantom, I've seen great results with the Zylight F8 LED fresnels. If you go with tungsten, it should be a large bulb unit, which has less time to cool (and dim) during phase cycles. There is also a post production technique of combining flickering frames on a timeline out of phase (1 frame off) so that the dimming/brightening cycles average out. I haven't tried that personally. Best to get it right from the beginning.

January 12th, 2014, 12:57 AM	#5
Bryan Scott New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 21	Re: Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? LED's can produce good results for high frame rates but because of their lower lumen output I'd only considered them as an option for smaller tighter filming areas for slow-motion recording. "Clubs" or stage will likely require more candles of fill, especially shooting slowmo. The Zylight F8 LED isn't bad, dont get me wrong and at 8000 Lux its one of the best LED spec's I've read recently, thanks for the tip Oren. But plasmas can deliver 20,000 and 50,000-lumen output fixture heads. I know that Hive lighting is using a 22,000-lumen lamp. I'm not sure if they've implemented the newer 50,000-lumen lamp yet. I'm working with one of the plasma manufacturers now to secure one for a parachuting night record where light weight, size and portable battery power are the driving factors because the light head has to be carried on a helmet, LED's just cant compete at this time. Here's an example of a recent plasma application I shot in the skies outside of Los Angeles last October. Here's some Photometric data from Hive Lighting below. Here is a Lux to Foot Candle converter to help you with the above tables. Lux to Foot-Candles Conversion Calculator On the tungsten fresnel side I also found the larger the better to fight flicker. I think it has to do with the thermal mass which carries over and masks "some of the flicker" which Oren suggested. When we did tests in our studio last year we found a 1k tungsten fresnel absolutely failed the flicker test with the FS700. We tried a 2k tungsten fresnel and that produced satisfactory results and the best results we had was with a really old 4k light running off 2 separate dimmers. The light contained 4 1K bulbs and may have been running off opposing electrical phases, I cant be sure we didn't meter it. So for cheep options and slower frame-rates up to 480 fps I think tungsten fresnels or soft lights would fit the bill and cover a "club" environment in a 2K or larger tungsten fresnel. Keep in mind these will heat up a room faster than LED or plasma lighting. You may want to shoot the light through some diffusion panels to spread out the light with all three technologies, it depends on your distance and how large an area you're talking about. I've also read about mixed results with HMI lighting but cant comment on gear I haven't tested. Kamil how big is the area do you need to fill for slow motion filming? Do you know what frame-rate you want to shoot at? Tell us something about the space and what you are shooting? Last edited by Bryan Scott; January 12th, 2014 at 02:03 AM.

January 12th, 2014, 06:48 PM	#6
Mark Bolding Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 109	Re: Lights recommended for slow-mo with Sony FS700? I was surprised to find out my Cool Lights Diva style fluorescent fixtures didn't flicker in a test I shot at night in my kitchen last week. Kitchen beer pour 240fps on Vimeo I used one 4 bulb fixture on the beer pour and another 4 bulb fixture on the background, both with Osram tungsten bulbs. There were also 3 led highhats that work in the background area that I bought at Home Depot when I renovated the kitchen.