FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 at DVinfo.net

Dmitri Zigany · June 3rd, 2013, 03:00 PM

Hey!

I currently have an EA50 which, overall, I'm pleased with.
However, I might be in the situation where I could get a new camera soon...

I work mostly in rather dark situations so the extra light sensitivity of the FS100/700 is a big thing to me.

My options are:

1) Getting the FS100 and keeping the EA50. (could be in handy for shooting live stuff)
2) Selling the EA50 and getting the FS700. Even with selling the EA50, this is stretching my economy.

I could also do other things like selling the EA50 and getting the FS100 + extra stuff like monitors, lights, rigs etc)

I guess my main questions here are:
If anyone has upgraded from the EA50 to the FS100: how much improvement did you experience the picture quality to be?
If you've used both the FS100 and FS700: besides slow motion and ND filters, do you feel it's worth twice the cost? How is the light sensitivity and picture quality if you compare the two?

The biggest lure of the FS700 is the super slow motion. I do mainly music videos, and it seems super slow motion is almost a prerequisite in that field these days...
Also, the FS700 seems more future proof and the FS100 is getting a bit old, bit still... But it's twice the money, and I'm not a rich man ;)

Any advice or guidance would be helpful!

Thanks
/DZ

Tim Dashwood · June 4th, 2013, 08:05 AM

It sounds like a used or B-stock FS100 might be what you are looking for.

I own a FS700, and you are right, it is future-proofed with 4K expandability. I love the ND filters and high-frame-rate capability. However, I think the FS100 is still more sensitive in low-light.

Steven Digges · June 4th, 2013, 12:35 PM

Hey Dmitri,

They are good cameras. But since you already have the EA50 I don't see a lot of justification for taking a hit selling it and spending all the extra bucks. So I would have to say keeping it and getting the FS100 is your best bet. Even though it is not a good matched pair.

I see your value in a second camera, not a single upgrade. What about a second EA50 and some fast glass? Do you run F2.8 or F1.4? I like mine that way. Are you that dissatisfied with the slow mo? It can't do what the FS700 can but it is not bad.

I have seen a couple of your music videos. They are awesome, you have an eye for the artistic. I could not imagine having only one camera to shoot with.

Also, have you considered the Canon C100? If your looking for a change and low light I think it would work for you. There is a $1,000.00 rebate on them right now.

Steve

Alister Chapman · June 5th, 2013, 09:13 PM

The FS100 is significantly better than the EA50 in low light, it's about 1.5 to 2 stops more sensitive. The FS100 also produces a sharper, higher resolution image. The FS700 as Tim points out is not quite as sensitive as the FS100, about 2/3 of a stop less sensitive, but still more sensitive than the EA50. The FS700 will hold it's value well going forwards while the FS100 is starting to become an "old" and less desirable model already even though it IS a great camera. The FS700 is nicer to use with the ND filters built in and the super slow-mo is fun.

The other thing to consider though is lenses. What lenses do you have now? Do you have fast lenses? Decent fast lenses will dramatically improve the low light performance of the EA50 compared to the rather slow Sony 18-200 kit lens.

Dmitri Zigany · June 6th, 2013, 04:45 PM

Thanks for the input everyone!
And thanks Steven for the kind words!

I believe that that sensible thing would be to get the FS100, but then again, I'm not known for doing the sensible ;)
If this deal goes through, this might be my only chance (in a long long time) to get something like the FS700...
It's a lot of things to consider... Maybe it won't even happen, in which case I'll be stuck with the EA50. But I can be very impulsive and that's why I'm trying to consider things already now. Cause the moment the money's on my account I will buy something haha.

And like Alister said, the FS100 is getting a bit old and even if it's cheaper it feels bad to pay a lot of money for "yesterdays tech". Maybe then it's wiser to pay a little more for something that will last...

Alister, I have the Samyang 35mm T1.5 Cine lens and the Sony 50mm 1.8 in addition to the stock lens. And I want to get more of the Samyang lenses...

James Manford · June 6th, 2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri Zigany

Thanks for the input everyone!
And thanks Steven for the kind words!

I believe that that sensible thing would be to get the FS100, but then again, I'm not known for doing the sensible ;)
If this deal goes through, this might be my only chance (in a long long time) to get something like the FS700...
It's a lot of things to consider... Maybe it won't even happen, in which case I'll be stuck with the EA50. But I can be very impulsive and that's why I'm trying to consider things already now. Cause the moment the money's on my account I will buy something haha.

And like Alister said, the FS100 is getting a bit old and even if it's cheaper it feels bad to pay a lot of money for "yesterdays tech". Maybe then it's wiser to pay a little more for something that will last...

Alister, I have the Samyang 35mm T1.5 Cine lens and the Sony 50mm 1.8 in addition to the stock lens. And I want to get more of the Samyang lenses...

At the rate your going making a decision, the Sony EA70 will be out.

Why don't you master your current tech. Push it to it's limits. Pick up some fast cine lenses to compensate for the low light. Then throw your money at the next Sony cinematography camcorder that comes out.

You already own the latest Sony camera ... but want to possibly invest in old tech ... (yes I know the FS100 is still one of the best cameras out there). Even then ... just hold on to that cash. Next summer Sony may have a product to match the Black Magic boys.

Chris Harding · June 6th, 2013, 07:38 PM

Hi Dimitri

The EA-50 still has a far more ergonomic form factor compared to the FS100, which despite it's awesome performance is still awkward to hand hold.

For wide work on my EA-50's I'm using a Tokina 11-16 zoom ..constant F2.8 and the results are massively different compared to the stock lens. For closer shots the Tamron 17-50 also does a great job and that's also F2.8 constant ... I would try that first before changing cameras and you still have zoom if you need it. The other really neat thing is if you use a Novoflex adapter with the lenses you also have full aperture control AND the camera runs in auto too so the display will simply auto switch to manual focus and show nothing in the aperture window BUT it will still auto expose perfectly just using shutter and ISO/gain. It's a great compromise and you gain your 1 to 1.5 stops that that FS100 would give you with the stock lens. For focus, the peaking, of course, also works perfectly so focussing is a breeze!!!

Chris

Glen Vandermolen · June 6th, 2013, 07:54 PM

I have an FS100. Given the choice between having my camera plus an EA50, or just an FS700, I'd go for the FS700. I've shot with one and I love the images it creates.

Al Yeung · June 7th, 2013, 02:17 AM

Unless you need 4K and slomo and internal NDs, I believe a used FS100 is a better option. (If you need any of those, then no need to read the following.)

The FS100's ergonomics are not ideal for run and gun, but it is in fact not awkward to handhold if you shorten the loupe (which is easy--there's a thread on it on the FS100 forum here) and avoid very heavy lenses (under 700 grams or so). "Dated" is a false perception -- in HD the FS100's image quality is only marginally inferior to the FS700, which as others have noted is in fact worse in low light.

The FS700 is truly awkward and heavy and impossible to handhold. I've used several copies of both cameras. For me the FS700 is definitely not worth twice the FS100. The FS100 just feels much better in my hand. The FS700 is just a bit too bulky, a bit too heavy. The only thing I like about the 700 over the 100 are the internal ND's, but they're not worth the extra frontal bulge and weight. Whereas the FS700 is a burden both physically and financially (it screams "serious equipment" to would-be thiefs), I shoot with a FS100 stripped down, with a shortened loupe, effortlessly and inconspicuously in public.

The FS700 may be "future proof" in offering 4K, but future proof hardly equates depreciation proof. In a year there'll be other 4K options. If you spend $6.5K for a used FS700 now, let alone $7.4K for a new one, how much do you expect to sell it for in a few years? Used FS100s have sold for just $3k.

James Hollingsworth · November 26th, 2013, 04:03 AM

Al, any chance of seeing a photo of your stripped down FS100 "I shoot with a FS100 stripped down, with a shortened loupe, effortlessly and inconspicuously in public"

Phil Goetz · November 29th, 2013, 01:02 PM

FS700 and EA50 tested:

Dmitri Zigany · January 18th, 2014, 07:14 AM

Hey!

It took longer than expected but now I have finally ordered the FS700R. It arrives on Monday and I'm super stoked! :)
I'm gonna hold on to the EA50 and see if it works well enough as a b-cam when shooting live performances. If not I'll sell it and put the money towards the CD 7Q.

I'm gonna be pretty damn broke after this purchase (it's the single most expensive thing I've ever bought). But until I can afford the 7Q (which might be a while) any recommendations for a decent sub €300 7" monitor?

As for lenses I have the 18-200 power zoom, the Sony 50mm/1.8 and the Samyang 35mm/1.5.
Think I'll get one or two Sony ones before getting more of the Samyang ones. I'm doing a lot of one man operations and the autofocus and OSS is really useful then.

Happy to soon be in your prestigious club! :)

Jens Korsgaard · January 18th, 2014, 08:37 AM

Congratulations! :) I'm sure you'll be most happy with your FS700.

Looking forward to hear your experience with the Samyang and Sony lenses. We'll likely be picking up a couple of more lenses to go with the kit one, and have been thinking about the Samyangs. Care to drop a line or two about your experience with em whenever you get a chance? :)

Cliff Totten · January 18th, 2014, 08:43 AM

I hate to throw this in at the last minute....but:

NAB 2014 camera announcements sometimes happen at the middle or end of March. We know that Sony is making a huge shift to 4K at all price points and is pushing XAVC & XAVC-S hard. We got our first look at this with the new AX100 Handycam consumer 4K camera.

Sony has just shown us the "bottom-end" of their new 4K product line at $2,000. (looks pretty damn good at that!)

It's safe to bet your house and everything you own that Sony has allot more 4K XAVC around the corner at NAB 2014.

We know an AX100 "pro" 4K is almost certain. However, could we see a $5,000 super35 sensor 4K with XAVC or XAVC-S? (an FS100, 8bit, 4:2:0 with onboard 4K codec?) I strongly suspect so! If not at NAB 2013 than certainly this year at IBC.

The FS700 is a super DUPER sweet camera and with it's 4K RAW output, its in a great price point. But, not having a 4K codec on board will be a sore spot when you see it's 8bit 4K cousins below it that have XAVC-S built in.

I have money to spend right now but I'm not making a move on anything until NAB 2014.

Just a thought. Hold you're receipt? ;-)

CT

Dmitri Zigany · January 18th, 2014, 11:06 AM

Yes, that was one of the concerns about getting the FS700, that it has some time on the market. I had money now and for various reasons, I couldn't wait. It really pushed my means to the limit and I had to order VAT-free from the UK to be able to afford it. And as I'm planning to terminate my company very soon that was the last chance to do something like that.
I also figured that if it's announced at NAB, it's gonna be at least 3-4 more months until it's readily available which means it's probably at least 6 months away... Also, any significant improvements to the FS700 (or it's successor) would take it too close to the F5/F55, which means either higher price or that it won't come until closer to the end of those cameras life cycles.
Based on that I thought "what the hell!" I want it now and with a future upgrade to the Odyssey 7Q, it's gonna last me some time anyway.
Come NAB, I might regret my decision though ;)

June 3rd, 2013, 03:00 PM	#1
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Hey! I currently have an EA50 which, overall, I'm pleased with. However, I might be in the situation where I could get a new camera soon... I work mostly in rather dark situations so the extra light sensitivity of the FS100/700 is a big thing to me. My options are: 1) Getting the FS100 and keeping the EA50. (could be in handy for shooting live stuff) 2) Selling the EA50 and getting the FS700. Even with selling the EA50, this is stretching my economy. I could also do other things like selling the EA50 and getting the FS100 + extra stuff like monitors, lights, rigs etc) I guess my main questions here are: If anyone has upgraded from the EA50 to the FS100: how much improvement did you experience the picture quality to be? If you've used both the FS100 and FS700: besides slow motion and ND filters, do you feel it's worth twice the cost? How is the light sensitivity and picture quality if you compare the two? The biggest lure of the FS700 is the super slow motion. I do mainly music videos, and it seems super slow motion is almost a prerequisite in that field these days... Also, the FS700 seems more future proof and the FS100 is getting a bit old, bit still... But it's twice the money, and I'm not a rich man ;) Any advice or guidance would be helpful! Thanks /DZ

June 4th, 2013, 08:05 AM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 It sounds like a used or B-stock FS100 might be what you are looking for. I own a FS700, and you are right, it is future-proofed with 4K expandability. I love the ND filters and high-frame-rate capability. However, I think the FS100 is still more sensitive in low-light. __________________ Tim Dashwood

June 4th, 2013, 12:35 PM	#3
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Hey Dmitri, They are good cameras. But since you already have the EA50 I don't see a lot of justification for taking a hit selling it and spending all the extra bucks. So I would have to say keeping it and getting the FS100 is your best bet. Even though it is not a good matched pair. I see your value in a second camera, not a single upgrade. What about a second EA50 and some fast glass? Do you run F2.8 or F1.4? I like mine that way. Are you that dissatisfied with the slow mo? It can't do what the FS700 can but it is not bad. I have seen a couple of your music videos. They are awesome, you have an eye for the artistic. I could not imagine having only one camera to shoot with. Also, have you considered the Canon C100? If your looking for a change and low light I think it would work for you. There is a $1,000.00 rebate on them right now. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

June 5th, 2013, 09:13 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 The FS100 is significantly better than the EA50 in low light, it's about 1.5 to 2 stops more sensitive. The FS100 also produces a sharper, higher resolution image. The FS700 as Tim points out is not quite as sensitive as the FS100, about 2/3 of a stop less sensitive, but still more sensitive than the EA50. The FS700 will hold it's value well going forwards while the FS100 is starting to become an "old" and less desirable model already even though it IS a great camera. The FS700 is nicer to use with the ND filters built in and the super slow-mo is fun. The other thing to consider though is lenses. What lenses do you have now? Do you have fast lenses? Decent fast lenses will dramatically improve the low light performance of the EA50 compared to the rather slow Sony 18-200 kit lens. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

June 6th, 2013, 04:45 PM	#5
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Thanks for the input everyone! And thanks Steven for the kind words! I believe that that sensible thing would be to get the FS100, but then again, I'm not known for doing the sensible ;) If this deal goes through, this might be my only chance (in a long long time) to get something like the FS700... It's a lot of things to consider... Maybe it won't even happen, in which case I'll be stuck with the EA50. But I can be very impulsive and that's why I'm trying to consider things already now. Cause the moment the money's on my account I will buy something haha. And like Alister said, the FS100 is getting a bit old and even if it's cheaper it feels bad to pay a lot of money for "yesterdays tech". Maybe then it's wiser to pay a little more for something that will last... Alister, I have the Samyang 35mm T1.5 Cine lens and the Sony 50mm 1.8 in addition to the stock lens. And I want to get more of the Samyang lenses...

June 6th, 2013, 07:38 PM	#7
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Hi Dimitri The EA-50 still has a far more ergonomic form factor compared to the FS100, which despite it's awesome performance is still awkward to hand hold. For wide work on my EA-50's I'm using a Tokina 11-16 zoom ..constant F2.8 and the results are massively different compared to the stock lens. For closer shots the Tamron 17-50 also does a great job and that's also F2.8 constant ... I would try that first before changing cameras and you still have zoom if you need it. The other really neat thing is if you use a Novoflex adapter with the lenses you also have full aperture control AND the camera runs in auto too so the display will simply auto switch to manual focus and show nothing in the aperture window BUT it will still auto expose perfectly just using shutter and ISO/gain. It's a great compromise and you gain your 1 to 1.5 stops that that FS100 would give you with the stock lens. For focus, the peaking, of course, also works perfectly so focussing is a breeze!!! Chris

June 6th, 2013, 07:54 PM	#8
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 I have an FS100. Given the choice between having my camera plus an EA50, or just an FS700, I'd go for the FS700. I've shot with one and I love the images it creates.

June 7th, 2013, 02:17 AM	#9
Al Yeung Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 59	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Unless you need 4K and slomo and internal NDs, I believe a used FS100 is a better option. (If you need any of those, then no need to read the following.) The FS100's ergonomics are not ideal for run and gun, but it is in fact not awkward to handhold if you shorten the loupe (which is easy--there's a thread on it on the FS100 forum here) and avoid very heavy lenses (under 700 grams or so). "Dated" is a false perception -- in HD the FS100's image quality is only marginally inferior to the FS700, which as others have noted is in fact worse in low light. The FS700 is truly awkward and heavy and impossible to handhold. I've used several copies of both cameras. For me the FS700 is definitely not worth twice the FS100. The FS100 just feels much better in my hand. The FS700 is just a bit too bulky, a bit too heavy. The only thing I like about the 700 over the 100 are the internal ND's, but they're not worth the extra frontal bulge and weight. Whereas the FS700 is a burden both physically and financially (it screams "serious equipment" to would-be thiefs), I shoot with a FS100 stripped down, with a shortened loupe, effortlessly and inconspicuously in public. The FS700 may be "future proof" in offering 4K, but future proof hardly equates depreciation proof. In a year there'll be other 4K options. If you spend $6.5K for a used FS700 now, let alone $7.4K for a new one, how much do you expect to sell it for in a few years? Used FS100s have sold for just $3k. Last edited by Al Yeung; June 7th, 2013 at 02:54 AM.

November 26th, 2013, 04:03 AM	#10
James Hollingsworth Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Leicester Posts: 119	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Al, any chance of seeing a photo of your stripped down FS100 "I shoot with a FS100 stripped down, with a shortened loupe, effortlessly and inconspicuously in public"

November 29th, 2013, 01:02 PM	#11
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 FS700 and EA50 tested: Sony EA50 and FS700 tested / same lens / same settings - YouTube

January 18th, 2014, 07:14 AM	#12
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Hey! It took longer than expected but now I have finally ordered the FS700R. It arrives on Monday and I'm super stoked! :) I'm gonna hold on to the EA50 and see if it works well enough as a b-cam when shooting live performances. If not I'll sell it and put the money towards the CD 7Q. I'm gonna be pretty damn broke after this purchase (it's the single most expensive thing I've ever bought). But until I can afford the 7Q (which might be a while) any recommendations for a decent sub €300 7" monitor? As for lenses I have the 18-200 power zoom, the Sony 50mm/1.8 and the Samyang 35mm/1.5. Think I'll get one or two Sony ones before getting more of the Samyang ones. I'm doing a lot of one man operations and the autofocus and OSS is really useful then. Happy to soon be in your prestigious club! :)

January 18th, 2014, 08:37 AM	#13
Jens Korsgaard New Boot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 10	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Congratulations! :) I'm sure you'll be most happy with your FS700. Looking forward to hear your experience with the Samyang and Sony lenses. We'll likely be picking up a couple of more lenses to go with the kit one, and have been thinking about the Samyangs. Care to drop a line or two about your experience with em whenever you get a chance? :)

January 18th, 2014, 08:43 AM	#14
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 I hate to throw this in at the last minute....but: NAB 2014 camera announcements sometimes happen at the middle or end of March. We know that Sony is making a huge shift to 4K at all price points and is pushing XAVC & XAVC-S hard. We got our first look at this with the new AX100 Handycam consumer 4K camera. Sony has just shown us the "bottom-end" of their new 4K product line at $2,000. (looks pretty damn good at that!) It's safe to bet your house and everything you own that Sony has allot more 4K XAVC around the corner at NAB 2014. We know an AX100 "pro" 4K is almost certain. However, could we see a $5,000 super35 sensor 4K with XAVC or XAVC-S? (an FS100, 8bit, 4:2:0 with onboard 4K codec?) I strongly suspect so! If not at NAB 2013 than certainly this year at IBC. The FS700 is a super DUPER sweet camera and with it's 4K RAW output, its in a great price point. But, not having a 4K codec on board will be a sore spot when you see it's 8bit 4K cousins below it that have XAVC-S built in. I have money to spend right now but I'm not making a move on anything until NAB 2014. Just a thought. Hold you're receipt? ;-) CT

January 18th, 2014, 11:06 AM	#15
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	Re: FS700 vs FS100 vs EA50 Yes, that was one of the concerns about getting the FS700, that it has some time on the market. I had money now and for various reasons, I couldn't wait. It really pushed my means to the limit and I had to order VAT-free from the UK to be able to afford it. And as I'm planning to terminate my company very soon that was the last chance to do something like that. I also figured that if it's announced at NAB, it's gonna be at least 3-4 more months until it's readily available which means it's probably at least 6 months away... Also, any significant improvements to the FS700 (or it's successor) would take it too close to the F5/F55, which means either higher price or that it won't come until closer to the end of those cameras life cycles. Based on that I thought "what the hell!" I want it now and with a future upgrade to the Odyssey 7Q, it's gonna last me some time anyway. Come NAB, I might regret my decision though ;)