Nikon ED Nikkor AF 80-200mm 2.8 ED

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Hello,

I have a FS100 and when shooting theatre I use the 18-200mm stocklens (F3.5 to F6.3)

In theatre there is in most cases enough light to shoot with the slower stocklens but now I have to shoot again a dance performance and the settings are mainly in lower light/dim settings.

So I need a faster zoomlens because last time I had some noise.

There is the sony SEL70200G (emount F4) lens but is expensive and on the sony site says the FS100 is not fully supported.(I guess the pillow distortion?)

So I found the nikon nikor 80-200mm ED. It will have more zoom range because it's a full frame lens.

I thought for a cheap adapter and film in manual focus -> I hope focus peaking is working with this lens?

I use 3 or 4 camcorders to shoot a dance performance so sometimes out of focus is no problem.

What are your thoughts about this combo? other thougths?

[Dave Sperling]

It's a great lens. I keep one in my kit and use it on almost every shoot. Of course much of the time I'm using it for interviews when I have some distance and want to throw the background way out of focus.
It's also great that is has a manual iris ring!
I'd say it's a pleasingly sharp lens - but not aggressively so. That's one thing that makes it so appealing for interviews. On some multicam shoots it's been intercut nicely with the Cabrios (19-90 & 85-300)

But a few things to keep in mind:
You need to be comfortable with the Nikon focus direction. You will need to pull focus because at longer focal lengths and 2.8 you really are talking a very shallow depth of field.
Use a good, big tripod with a heavy head. I can do interviews with it on a DV4, but for any real long lens movement I'd want at least a Video 18.
I use it with a solid (MTF) adapter, usually without support. With a cheaper adapter a support might be advisable.
When I use it with the A7s on a tripod I put the tripod quick release plate on the collar mount on the lens, so it's the lens and not the camera that's mounted to the tripod.
It's not a stabilized lens, so if you're on a bouncy camera platform or a poorly constructed floor you'll see the bumps.

Peaking is a viewfinder function. Yes, the lens is sharp enough that peaking should work fine.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

thx Dave for taking your time to answer me.

I have the sachtler ace M tripod.

Thanks for the comments for keeping in mind:

Mostly I'm standig on a normal floor to film. So normally not bouncy.

so the peaking is working on your a7s with this lens I suppose?

and auto gain and auto shutter? are these working?

Normally indoors the lens will be wide open I guess.

You bit scared me off with the very shallow depth of field. Do you have an example of this @200mm F2.8?

thx in advance!

[Dave Sperling]

I do tend to use heavier tripods than the M, so I can't vouch for it. I'm guessing that I'd find it a bit light.

Yes, peaking works fine with the lens on A7s.

I basically never use auto-gain or auto shutter, but I just looked and they do seem to work fine on A7s with lens on it.

For me, the focus/ shallow DOF focus pulling issues are mainly if I'm doing an interview and have a 'leaner' - a subject who likes to move in an animated way (or just fidgets) and leans back, then forward towards interviewer, moves the chair during the interview, etc. Often my DOF for a tight shot (particularly when shooting with 2 cameras, one wider and one tighter) will only be about 4 inches - and the subject may lean as much as 12-14 inches. So I normally have a 7" SmallHD monitor attached for checking/adjusting the focus. I usually position the 7" right next to the camera VF so I can keep the VF for framing and punch the monitor in 4x for focus. Yes, I know you can punch the VF in as well, but invariably as soon as you punch it in the subject makes a quick move and you need full frame for re-framing.

Remember, DOF is a function of focal length, F/stop, sensor size and distance to focal plane. So close shots on long lenses will have minimal DOF when the F/stop is wide open.

There are a lot of DOF calculator apps around - make sure to have one on your smartphone so you will know going into a situation what you're dealing with.

If you're doing dance or theatre, you will have an easier time if you're at the back of house/ center. Then a lot of the action will be at similar distances, and thus require less focus adjustment (though you may need to pull to follow someone from upstage to downstage.) If you're located close and in one of the outside aisles (next to a side wall) you'll be doing a lot of pulling if you're staying close on someone crossing stage. (I use the SmallHD 7" as an additional VF when shooting for Broadway shows as well.) If you're shooting long performances and doing a lot of focus pulling I'd definitely recommend having a support rods rig - and adding a small, soft bracket on it as a wrist rest for your left hand in focus position -- without it you'd be surprised just how tired your arm can get in only 60-90 minutes!

[Tom Van den Berghe]

thx again Dave for your long answer!

Yes, I'm doing dance and theatre and will use it for that.I'm always in the back of the centre.
Yes, the action is mostly on the same distance.

I use the loupe from the FS100 which I really like.and it's to use peaking with it.

I will probably buy the 3th generation of this lens which has 2 rings on it. I found it very cheap near me because the AF on it doesn't work anymore, so only manual focus. For me no problem because with an adapter the autofocus wouldn't work.

I can always close the iris if wide open would be too much DOF.

[Dave Sperling]

I tend to find the manual iris ring very helpful. During most 'big' shows I find myself riding the iris pretty often. On musicals with multiple spotlights (where they have one on each major performer) for instance - when they come together at center stage you suddenly have 2 or 3 spotlights covering the group - so they're a stop+ hotter, Then they separate and it's back to one spotlight each. The shows I shoot will normally have about a 3+ stop variation in exposure from darkest to brightest scenes, so iris control is important. I'd only go with a 'G' series lens (no iris ring) if I knew the show had a single preset look - or if the lighting designer created a special look for us - as sometimes happens when they stage scenes for us.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

hi Dave,

I just have the lens and did a quick test outside against the sony stocklens 18-200mm F3.5 - 6.3

I used a variable nd filter. This fitted directly on the nikon lens without a extra adapter ring. great.

I thought I would have more focal length with the nikon during the crop factor but I didn't see it.
Looks like about the same distance fully zoomed in against the sony stocklens.the DOF seems also about equal. that's strange, not?

Will have to test further inside. I attached a still from the nikon lens fully zoomed in and from the sony fully zoomed in.

The peaking works.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

now with the samples

[Dave Sperling]

200 mm is 200 mm - so long end of both lenses will be the same field of view.

If both lenses are wide open, you should have less DoF at 2.8 than at 6.3 when at 200mm.

I'm personally not crazy about variable ND's on long lenses - but with the AF100 you may be stuck with it outside.

Do your next test inside - wide open at 2.8 with no ND and check out the image. Make sure you have some space between your subject and your background.

[Jeremy Cole]

Hi,

I have the 80-200 Nikkor and use it with the Sony FS5 It is a nice lens, but at 200mm wide open the depth of field is going to be very limited. It will work for a talking head at an event, but for a moving dance piece it would be very difficult to keep in focus. Also, wide open, it tends to run soft.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

had to film a musical/theatre this weekend.

sony FS100 with the nikkor 80-200 (front view close ups) and sony hxr-nx3 (side view)

Mostly the scene was will "illuminated" so the gain was max 9db I think. the peaking worked well but zooming with the ring was very difficult.

I had to film wide open otherwise the gain went up. here is a short sample of it:

kampTASTISCH - YouTube