Lens hood for kit lens with 77MM Heliopan ND Filter

[Mark A. Foley]

As I don't have my cam in hand yet, I was wondering for those who possibly use the Heliopan variable 77mm ND filter (with step up ring) attached to the stock kit lens, can you still use the supplied lens hood or do you need to fit another?
Thanks in advance....

[Gabe Strong]

The supplied lens hood won't work. You can get a '3 stage' rubber
one and screw the Heliopan into the front side and then screw it on the
kit lens. Very cheap solution(less than $10 I think), but when I tried it,
I would get some vignetting at 18mm. I ended up getting a cheap 'rails'
set up (the Fotga 500 from ebay) along with the cheap 'matte box' looking thing which is really just a sunshade with 3 french flags. I already have
the Heliopan so didn't want to spend $500 or more for a matte box
with slide in filters as I don't do that type of shooting much,
I do much faster paced stuff and just needed the sunshade benefits
of the mattebox. The whole setup cost about $110 but the added benefit
is that I can now use big, heavy lenses as I have the rails/lens support
Fotga 500 rig and I just use a step ring for every lens up to 77mm and
put my Heliopan on.

[Mark A. Foley]

Thanks for response Gabe...especially as I was also considering a rail system anyway. Just found out my camera will be hear Friday. I have a 4 week break in my schedule (time for family vacation and catch up on backlog editing)...so hopefully I can get up to speed quickly on its use and how it will fit into my workflow with my NX5s...once again thanks

[Mark A. Foley]

you still have the part numbers your ordered for the Fotga system?

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Unfortunately, the 3-stage rubber hood with 77mm diameter does indeed vignette on the kit lens - and not just at the widest setting!

Try to find this one sorry this is (only available in Polish - the name translates to "Marumi wide-angle rubber hood, 77mm):

Marumi Os?ona gumowa szerokok?tna 77 mm | STOPfoto.pl profesjonalny sklep fotograficzny on-line - Szczegó?y produktu (Marumi, Heliopan, Tiffen, Leica, Hitech, Lumiquest, Stofen)

This one doesn't vignette, but is so shallow that doesn't work at longer focal lengths...

[Mark A. Foley]

Originally Posted by Gabe Strong

The supplied lens hood won't work. You can get a '3 stage' rubber
one and screw the Heliopan into the front side and then screw it on the
kit lens. Very cheap solution(less than $10 I think), but when I tried it,
I would get some vignetting at 18mm. I ended up getting a cheap 'rails'
set up (the Fotga 500 from ebay) along with the cheap 'matte box' looking thing which is really just a sunshade with 3 french flags. I already have
the Heliopan so didn't want to spend $500 or more for a matte box
with slide in filters as I don't do that type of shooting much,
I do much faster paced stuff and just needed the sunshade benefits
of the mattebox. The whole setup cost about $110 but the added benefit
is that I can now use big, heavy lenses as I have the rails/lens support
Fotga 500 rig and I just use a step ring for every lens up to 77mm and
put my Heliopan on.

Is this what you got?
Fotga DP500 DSLR Matte Box + 15mm Rail Rod Support for Follow Focus Rig 5DII 60D | eBay

edit...found another post confirming :-)

[Gabe Strong]

Mark,

That is EXACTLY the same set up I have.

[Mark A. Foley]

Thanks Gabe...

I have decided to re-think this setup for now...as it all centered around glass I don't have in my possession now and a 77mm ND filter. Although I'm sure I'm going to get the rail, decided I need to get the cam in my hands first and see where and what I will do (baby steps). I've decided to go with a 67mm heliopan (ordered a used one) for the kit lens and a step up ring for my 50mm 1.4 prime lens that I do have in my hand now (and a ring for the 16mm pancake lens I have on backorder). Future thinking know is to rent kick butt leness as the gig requires and will address ND requirements at that time.

I do think I will go with the Fotga 500 just for added support for the kit lens as it will get me use to the added mass for when I go handheld with my spider setup. I'm not a big fan of stuff from China, but it would be a low investment....

[Chris Joy]

Hey Gabe, can you post a pic of the Fotga on your camera? How it from a quality standpoint? The pics on ebay aren't exactly flattering. I had some cheap stuff before getting into Redrock and I swore I'd never go back after ill-fitting parts and rod clamps that couldn't clamp down on the rails enough to keep from slipping. Thanks in advance.

p.s. After 30 years I moved from Anchorage to Florida (drove the 8,000 miles) last year to go to grad school. Good to see peeps from the 9-0-7 posting.

[Gabe Strong]

Mark,

I went with the 77mm Heliopan as it was the biggest one they made at the
time (now they make an 82mm one and I'd go with that one). It is cheap and
easy to get $3 step up rings but if you buy the 67mm Heliopan and ever get
a lens with 77mm threads, you cannot use the Heliopan and are forced into
another solution. I figured I'd just get the biggest Heliopan they had
and step all the lenses I get to it. Despite all the angst from many
about the kit lens, I actually love the thing. It's flawed for sure,
but you can do so much with it. Of course you should add faster glass
to your collection, but if I was going on a corporate shoot and had no
idea what I was going to run into, I could grab the kit lens and
Heliopan and know that I would get some good stuff. The kit lens and
a 50mm 1.4 along with the 16mm is a awesome start.

Chris,

You can see some pics on my business facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/GForceProductionsbusinesspage

I've got some pics of the Fotga set up with a Vivitar 28-90 F2.8
zoom lens, and some others as well. Look for the album named
'Super 35 rig' it has several. I think there may be a couple
more in the album 'Production stills'. I just added some longer
rods, as the rods that come with the Fotga set up are only 12 inches
long, I added some longer rods so I can have a shoulder pad on back
and a way to hang an external recorder and wireless mic bracket and
so on, I haven't completed that part yet as I have been too busy
catching up on post production work. The set up is all right, the
rods are aluminum, nice and solid. The lens support is great and
can adjust up and down, as can the camera baseplate. I wish the
camera baseplate was a little better but it's not bad. The
'matte box' is cheap, plastic and so on, but I just wanted a
cheap way to cut down sun flares and didn't want to spend $500
on a matte box for that. The Heliopan ND works just awesome,
but it will not allow you to put a normal lens shade on a lens, so
on the rare sunny days in Juneau, I need something for a shade.

I actually used to work at KTUU in Anchorage as a news photog/editor,
but I was in Juneau a lot as the bureau photog covering the legislative
session. Your name sounds familiar though, did you work for one of the
TV stations in Anchorage? Florida sounds quite a bit nicer in terms
of the shooting weather, my last shoot was about half ruined because
the rain was so heavy I got condensation between my Heliopan and my lens
because I had switched lenses partway through the shoot, and even
though I was good about keeping the sensor covered and made sure no
water got in there, I then had to change over my Heliopan to the other
lens and it ended up getting condensation on it. My only lens
wipe was so wet I couldn't get rid of it.

I've also talked some to David Hurd down there in Florida.
I know he has a production company and writes for some magazines.
He was very interested in the FS100 and talked to me on the phone
and via email about it a lot. I ended up emailing him some video,
and after seeing it, he decided to buy it.

[Chad Whelan]

I am also looking at the same set up as I need support for my 75-200 lens. I also have a variable ND so want a simple sun shade as well. According to the specs I have seen the Fotga ships with 10" rails. That seems rather short to me but maybe I don't need much longer? Anyone know if the fotga setup with 10" rails and the sunshade would be long enough with a 200mm lens in general?

[Mark A. Foley]

Gabe,
Since you went with the larger Heliopan, you may not be able to answer this. Does the 67mm Helioppan on the kit lens prevents you from using the supplied hood? I went back and forth on this issue as I originally had the 77 on order but decided to go with the 67 (and it will also fit my Sigma 18-50 lens I have. My thought was to keep weight down for when I use my glidecam...I have the Fotga system coming and may go with the full mattbox and use ND filters there when I put longer glass.

My camera arrives later today...so hopefully I can decide what to do I have the 77 Heliopan arriving as well but had thought I might return that to B&H)...

[Piotr Wozniacki]

I'm not Gabe, but can tell you there is no problem using a 67mm filter on the kit lens, while keeping the original (petal) hood on.

However, I wouldn't go with the vario-ND filter in this size. Even the 77mm Heliopan I have shows very, very slight (but noticeable) vignetting in the corners when the lens is at 18mm!

Since the 77mm Heliopan doesn't fit inside the petal hood, I'm using the Marumi wide-angle rubber hood instead (I posted a link to it for reference earlier in this thread).

HTH,

Piotr

[Mark A. Foley]

Thanks for the quick response Piotr...since I have both the 67 and 77 arriving today along with the camera, I will check first hand which one I will keep and what will go back to B&H.

[Gabe Strong]

Mark,

Well, the quick answer to this is.....it depends. You see, the
original Heliopan filters did NOT have any front threads on them so
you could not use the petal hood at all. No go, no matter what!
However, after a bunch of us early adopters bought Heliopans, some
of us (like me for example!) contacted Heliopan and explained the
situation. I was told within a week of contacting them, that they
were working on a solution. Then I never heard anything more....
until...Frank Glencairn (FS100 guru extraordinaire) posted over at the
'other'forum that Heliopan had come out with a new version which had front
threads on them that would allow you to use the petal hood. SO, if
you get one of the newer versions, you 'should' be ok. But I can't
personally vouch for it as I have one of the 'old' Heliopan filters.
Still worth every cent I paid for it, it's one sharp filter, I can shoot
run and gun all day long with the kit lens and the Heliopan, I could
even turn out daily news stories with it on deadline no problem.
I have heard of others having vignetting problems with the Heliopan
on the kit lens at 18mm. I don't have the problem...usually.
I had it once when using the 'rubber hood' because the Heliopan was
out too far in front of the lens. I had a 67 to 77 step ring, then
the rubber shade, then the Heliopan. The simple act of adding a couple
centimeters in between the step ring and the Heliopan caused vignetting
at the 18mm end of the kit lens. But after I got rid of that I was good
.....except not always. Every once in awhile, I WILL get vignetting
at 18mm, but it depends. I was baffled, until again, Frank came to
the rescue. It appears that this can happen depending on the rotation
of the front element in the Heliopan. In the interest of helping,
I hope the moderators will allow me to link to this helpful post,
if this is a no no, feel free to delete the offending link, I'm just
trying to help here:

Heliopan vari ND finetuning to prevent cross hatch vignetting.

Again, Frank is awesome and freely shares his incredible knowledge of
the FS100, he should get a free FS700 from Sony in my book.

Anyways, that is a long answer to your question. If it was me.....well
I'd probably keep the 77mm. Actually, I'd probably send them both back
and get an 82mm, but that's me keeping lens options open. Doing the 67mm
route with a matte box for other lenses makes a lot of sense. I just don't
do too much shooting in that style. Even supposedly 'slow' shoots which
are supposed to be 'controlled' by the clients to give me time for set up
always seem to turn in to the big 'cluster F'. Since I am not a big time
DOP that does narrative films and such, I have to scrape by making any video
someone will pay me for, which often means corporate promos, events, and
local TV commercials (where the business owner is always trying to get the whole
thing shot in 2 hours so you don't have to disrupt his business any longer.)
These shoots NEVER seems to lend themselves well to anything that
takes longer than 30 seconds to set up......and that includes lighting a
4 person interview. The good news, is that the FS100 can make these
'quick' crazy shoots look like you put in all kinds of time, just beautiful.
And if you CAN put in some time.....you would not be embarrassed to see it up
on the big screen, not because of the video quality anyways.