Image after upgrade at DVinfo.net

John Godwin · June 8th, 2012, 12:51 PM

I did the firmware update a few weeks ago. Since then it appears to me the images from the FS-100 have been noticeably softer. I have tried to go into the picture profiles (amazingly it retained the existing ones) and tweak detail and such, but it still appears overall softer than before the update.

Has anyone else seen this? Am I crazy?

Those are two distinct questions that may have no direct relevance to each other.

Thanks in advance ...

John

Matt Davis · June 9th, 2012, 03:28 PM

The software upgrade resets the Picture Profiles. You have to re-enter them all.

I would like to think that Sony have done something to calm the red-clipping in the CineTone settings, and I recreated a scene today that had awful red clipping problems on my original shoot. Today, it was much calmer.

But was that because I took note of my original settings in their 'original' state and then tweaked them until they caused problems? So a 'reset' would bring me back to calmer settings?

In my unscientific recreation tests, I'd say that CineTone 1 seems better than before, the Rec709 is calmer, and 'none' has a little more contrast.

But hey, who knows? My tests could be flawed and the settings I 'thought' I was using may have been different from those that were actually in the camera - and now they are lost for the new settings.

I do know for sure, however, that it's been harder to recreate the problem I had a year ago. I see the seeds of last year's problem, I see the telltale signs in the histogram in FCP, and I could see a trace of what I saw last year in this version's Rec709 profile. Watch out for a blog post along those lines.

But yes: most would claim that there's NO change.

Frank Glencairn · June 9th, 2012, 03:34 PM

Sony (or actually anyone from Sony, that I talked to) claimed that they haven't changed anything, besides what they say in the update list.

But as one of the guys, that spend the most time of all users in the PP menus, while gazing at waveforms and vecorscopes, I saw a difference after the update.

Mostly what Matt said.

Frank

Piotr Wozniacki · June 10th, 2012, 05:51 AM

I can confirm Frank's and Matt's observations.

Piotr

Matt Davis · June 10th, 2012, 06:08 AM

Yesterday, I managed to (albeit hastily and not quite exactly) recreate a scene I shot last year on my FS100 with v1 with exactly the same light at the same time of day with the same camera, lens and PP but now running v2 software.

Just to be clear, we're looking at the wooden blinds behind Alex. The v1 software's CineTone has issues with the red channel clipping too early, causing horrid posterisation. In the second image, the posterisation is far less problematic, and rolling through the exposures, I couldn't get the effect I had on the v1 shoot.

For good measure, I've included a still from the 5dMk2 which shows - like the EX1R - what the blinds SHOULD look like, and now a FS700 shot with half baked CineGamma 3 profile.

Somehow, I think shooting charts wouldn't have helped, and doesn't seem to expose (if you pardon the pun) the problems one can run into.

Here's the stills direct from the timeline... (though it looks like there's a gamma shift as these are from FCP7)

John Godwin · June 10th, 2012, 05:29 PM

Thanks for the replies. The firmware update did give me the additional menu options and new features. I was very surprised that the picture profiles were still there.

I did a bit of quick testing today and the images, with the same lenses, look closer to what I consider normal. I'm prepping for an out of town shoot so the tests were cursory. I can't duplicate all the circumstances since the material that I'm most concerned about was in a client's studio, so I'm reduced to trying to figure out if there was anything different about that shoot.

I had a new variable ND on that one, and in my test with it and the Genus I already had it appeared to be fine. I won't be using the new one on this shoot, and I'll test it against the Genus when I get back, because in hindsight that's the major equipment variable.

The tests you shot, Matt, were very interesting, and thanks.

June 8th, 2012, 12:51 PM	#1
John Godwin Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 190	Image after upgrade I did the firmware update a few weeks ago. Since then it appears to me the images from the FS-100 have been noticeably softer. I have tried to go into the picture profiles (amazingly it retained the existing ones) and tweak detail and such, but it still appears overall softer than before the update. Has anyone else seen this? Am I crazy? Those are two distinct questions that may have no direct relevance to each other. Thanks in advance ... John

June 9th, 2012, 03:28 PM	#2
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Re: Image after upgrade The software upgrade resets the Picture Profiles. You have to re-enter them all. I would like to think that Sony have done something to calm the red-clipping in the CineTone settings, and I recreated a scene today that had awful red clipping problems on my original shoot. Today, it was much calmer. But was that because I took note of my original settings in their 'original' state and then tweaked them until they caused problems? So a 'reset' would bring me back to calmer settings? In my unscientific recreation tests, I'd say that CineTone 1 seems better than before, the Rec709 is calmer, and 'none' has a little more contrast. But hey, who knows? My tests could be flawed and the settings I 'thought' I was using may have been different from those that were actually in the camera - and now they are lost for the new settings. I do know for sure, however, that it's been harder to recreate the problem I had a year ago. I see the seeds of last year's problem, I see the telltale signs in the histogram in FCP, and I could see a trace of what I saw last year in this version's Rec709 profile. Watch out for a blog post along those lines. But yes: most would claim that there's NO change. __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

June 9th, 2012, 03:34 PM	#3
Frank Glencairn Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 176	Re: Image after upgrade Sony (or actually anyone from Sony, that I talked to) claimed that they haven't changed anything, besides what they say in the update list. But as one of the guys, that spend the most time of all users in the PP menus, while gazing at waveforms and vecorscopes, I saw a difference after the update. Mostly what Matt said. Frank

June 10th, 2012, 05:51 AM	#4
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: Image after upgrade I can confirm Frank's and Matt's observations. Piotr __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

June 10th, 2012, 06:08 AM	#5
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Re: Image after upgrade Yesterday, I managed to (albeit hastily and not quite exactly) recreate a scene I shot last year on my FS100 with v1 with exactly the same light at the same time of day with the same camera, lens and PP but now running v2 software. Just to be clear, we're looking at the wooden blinds behind Alex. The v1 software's CineTone has issues with the red channel clipping too early, causing horrid posterisation. In the second image, the posterisation is far less problematic, and rolling through the exposures, I couldn't get the effect I had on the v1 shoot. For good measure, I've included a still from the 5dMk2 which shows - like the EX1R - what the blinds SHOULD look like, and now a FS700 shot with half baked CineGamma 3 profile. Somehow, I think shooting charts wouldn't have helped, and doesn't seem to expose (if you pardon the pun) the problems one can run into. Here's the stills direct from the timeline... (though it looks like there's a gamma shift as these are from FCP7) Attached Thumbnails __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

June 10th, 2012, 05:29 PM	#6
John Godwin Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 190	Re: Image after upgrade Thanks for the replies. The firmware update did give me the additional menu options and new features. I was very surprised that the picture profiles were still there. I did a bit of quick testing today and the images, with the same lenses, look closer to what I consider normal. I'm prepping for an out of town shoot so the tests were cursory. I can't duplicate all the circumstances since the material that I'm most concerned about was in a client's studio, so I'm reduced to trying to figure out if there was anything different about that shoot. I had a new variable ND on that one, and in my test with it and the Genus I already had it appeared to be fine. I won't be using the new one on this shoot, and I'll test it against the Genus when I get back, because in hindsight that's the major equipment variable. The tests you shot, Matt, were very interesting, and thanks.