Matte Box question

[Marc Salvatore]

I'm going to be shooting an independent on a tight budget using the Sony FS100. I'm learning the camera and looking into accessory costs for the producer. I know that I need ND filters but honestly have never used a matte box. How necessary is a matte box compared to just using ND filters and the lens shade for the various lenses I will be using?

Many thanks, Marc

[Matt Davis]

If you go for screw-in, you won't have proper access access to ND grads that can pull down sky detail. Yes, there are grads in screw-in format, but they don't have the 'up and down' movement as well as the rotation.

Using the petal lens shades on photographic lenses is fine, but stacking ND and pola then having to remove the lens shade to adjust them can be a pain. A matte box copes with a wide range of focal lengths.

But having said that, a matte box can be a right royal pain to work with using zooms that extend (e.g. the Sony Kit Lens) as you'll be forever shoving the matte box up and down the rails to accomodate the focal length - or even the focus if the lens isn't 'internal focus' (many aren't). You will also have to keep a sharp eye on your frame edges to ensure the flags don't encroach on your image.

In my experience, I'd avoid 'screw on' matte boxes (screw an adaptor onto the lens, fit the matte box to the adaptor), and go for a rails mounted system. Lens mounted systems put a lot of stress on the front of the lens, they twist round at the most inopportune moments and just feel poised to wreck your camera.

[Marc Salvatore]

Thank you Matt, that was very helpful.

Marc

[Chris Joy]

I agree with Matt, screw the screw-on mattebox. I had one because my SAL16-50 extends when zooming and I like to fine tune my framing with zoom. You have to have step up rings to fit the box - mine was 86mm - so after threading a giant ring onto the front of my lens you clamp the mattebox on. Its difficult to get the mattebox level and when the french flag is up you can really see a little tilt to the left or right and its distracting, at least it was to me. If I were shooting on a set it would be different, but out in the field it just wasn't practical to fiddle with the box with each lens change. I went with the threaded filter option, specifically the Singh-Ray vari-ND and I'm very happy with it, much better than the cheaper LCW fader ND I had before.

[Marc Salvatore]

Thanks Chris.

[Matt Davis]

Random thought - has anyone tried the (shudder, dare I say the word) Cokin system? Maybe the Lee system?

IIRC, both have a 3 stage collapsable rubber hood that fits onto the filter stage. What it doesn't do is shade light from the filters in the mount - though this is a prime example of the delights of black-wrap.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

I usually agree with Matt - but not this time :)

Screw-on matte boxes seem right because of the telescoping nature of the FS100 kit lenses - but by the same virtue, they only add extra front weight to the rig when the lens is fully extended. I just cannot imagine having a matte box at the front of fully-extended 18-210!

My recipe is simple: for hand-held R&G, use the SEL 18-210 with it's own hood (and Heliopan vari ND, if necessary). Otherwise - use a rail system supporting a proper matte box, and re-adjust with every lens swap..

[Dan Asseff]

Matt,

I just bought one for like $12.00 works like a charm. I put it on the kit lens and put the vari ND filter after that. I is a little tricky to adjust but it works. Someone told me about it here and i am glad i got it.

Dan

[Jamie Roberts]

Im suprised some one hasnt come out with a lightweight mattebox (plastic) that can be used with extending lenses on video cams...or have they?

[Matt Davis]

I was alluding to that at #6 (top image) - rather than the three stage rubber lens shades (bottom image).

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

I usually agree with Matt - but not this time :)

Screw-on matte boxes seem right because of the telescoping nature of the FS100 kit lenses - but by the same virtue, they only add extra front weight to the rig when the lens is fully extended. I just cannot imagine having a matte box at the front of fully-extended 18-210!

My recipe is simple: for hand-held R&G, use the SEL 18-210 with it's own hood (and Heliopan vari ND, if necessary). Otherwise - use a rail system supporting a proper matte box, and re-adjust with every lens swap..

Sorry Matt - I got your post wrong; of course we agree on this, like on most other things :)

Piotr

[Jamie Roberts]

I found a cheap matte box on 'dhgate' (never heard of it until i did a search for the one Matt put up) and found a cheapie I thought for the price ($42) was worth giving a go. It looks a bit flimsy but might do the trick when using the stock lens that comes with the fs100 or the sal1650 (with a set of rails).

Wholesale - DSLR Movie Kit Matte Box For 15mm Rail Rod Support System Video Cameras 7D 5D MARK II 60D 600D D90, Free shipping, $31.35-42.96/Piece, 1 piece/Lot | DHgate.com

[Matt Davis]

Please, just to be clear, I wasn't really 'advocating' these systems, just passing on research from a while back.

Yes, I used Cokin as a moderately penniless photography student many eons ago (mid 80s), and haven't really felt the desire to go back to them. The fact that they're still going strong does reflect positively on their solution, though I feel it's a phase all photographers go through, and eventually get over it.

Like Piotr, I'm sticking to the petal lens hoods, and have a Genus matte box on rails that I use on outdoor GV shoots (though I don't like it - but the nice ones are unbelievably expensive).

I mentioned the clip-on stuff via research done by my friend and colleague Rick Young, who was very keen to find something he'd use all the time, but has since moved on. The Lee 'System' seemed the more robust system but were hard to get hold of as they were going through a re-tooling of their entire business at the time. I believe there are still long delays as their nice calm little business got jumped on by the Video DSLR community in their demand for 'good value' NDs and Grad NDs.

http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/system

Scroll down and check out their Bellows lens hoods. I had one of these on my Kodak CineSpecial 16mm camera, it worked a treat. If only one had this and the Lee filter holder on rails...

The rubber-ring hood seems the best option for lenses that predate plastic petal hoods, though.