S&Q questions

Simon Spear · December 23rd, 2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Guys - there is no such thing as 1080/25p 50 fps - if it's 50 fps, then it's 1080/50p!

Hi Piotr - this is partly why I am confused. In the S&Q settings there are three options 1080/50p PS, 1080/25p FX and 1080/25p FH. While I have not tried the FH setting if you record 1080/25p FX at 50fps you get footage recorded at 24mpbs without audio that is already slowed down to half speed when it is imported. If you select 1080/50p PS then you get footage recorded at 28mbps with an audio feed thrown in too, but the footage is not automatically slowed down on import (I have to conform to 25p in Cinema Tools to slow it down).

So for Slow motion are you guys using the 1080/50p or 1080/25p setting in S&Q and what is the reasoning behind the option you are using? Does the 1080/50p setting in S&Q give you better quality footage or is the extra recording bit rate just used to carry the audio track?

Piotr Wozniacki · December 23rd, 2011, 03:41 PM

This behavior is normal, and exactly what Slow Motion (or "overcranking") is about:

- you shoot what is intended to be 1080/25p (at 25 fps), but recording 50 fps. Then, on playback (25 fps), you're getting 2x slower motion (and no audio).

The 1080/50p mode on the FS100 has nothing to do with S&Q; it's a recording format on its own and can carry audio track, as well. Of course you can slow it down in post, but that's another thing to on-camera slow motion recording.

Hope this helps

Piotr

Jeff Troiano · December 23rd, 2011, 05:02 PM

Ok, I'm going to take a stab at this one. Hopefully I understand correctly.

There are 2 settings that you set, in S&Q. One is for your playback frame rate. For me, that is usually 24p or 30p. But it could be 60p, if I want super quick motion. So once i set my "conform to" rate, then I choose the frame rate for desired effect. If I'm conforming to 30p, and I choose 60p, I'll get 1/2 speed playback. If I record a frame rate at less then 30p, and then conform to 30p, I'll get quick motion. But your example of choosing 50p as your conform to frame rate, then trying to do 50p S&Q, basically all you are doing is recording normal video. That's why you'd get audio upon play back. When recording 1 rate (60p for me), and playing back at another (30p for me), you get no audio, because the audio would be a slowed down version of the actual recorded audio.

Hope that makes sense.

Simon Spear · December 23rd, 2011, 05:34 PM

Everyone is making sense, but that is not really what I'm asking.

You can use 50p/60p using 1/100 or 1/120 shutter and conform to 24p/25p/30p in Cinema Tools (Mac) to get slowmo from the 50p/60p setting (this is what everyone has been doing with 720/50p & 720/60p on HDSLR's to get slowmo). The added bonus with this on the FS100 is that you maintain an audio track which you can strip out before conforming and therefore retain audio at normal speed if required. In many reviewers opinions this was a big plus when shooting slowmo on the FS100. While this is a more involved workflow than using the 1080/25p or 1080/30p FX/FH settings I was wondering if there was actually any difference in quality between the 24mbps 24p/25p/30p and 28mbps 50p/60p settings hence asking what everyone was using.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well, but thanks for the input!

Amir Qureshi · February 4th, 2014, 01:33 AM

I know this is a dead thread, but now that I am trying to record the overcranked footage to an external recorder from FS100' HDMI (if it even sends the overcranked signal out of its HDMI) I thought maybe I should try to bring this one back to life again.

So what I have learned from reading this thread is that while in S&Q mode, the camera will record overcranked (say 1080/24p 60fps) internally on its SD cards, but it will send only a 1080p 60 (playback rate of 60 fps) out of its HDMI output, correct?

And if the above is correct, then all FS100 is really doing is capturing the image at 60 frames per second (as it would normally do for its non-cranked 1080p 60 mode) but right before it writes these frames to the internal SD card(s) its actually stamping these frames with the playback frame rate of 24fps on the meta data. And while this happens the originally captured 60 frames per second images are being sent out thru HDMI as is with their original playback frame rate meta data of 60 fps without any change . Hence the 1080p 60 output from the HDMI while in S&Q mode, as well as the embedded audio.

If the above theory is correct, then after recording my footage externally as 1080 60p signal, all I have to do is re-stamp the playback frame rate to 24 fps, and thats really it, correct? Or if my external recorder allows for it, just tell it to set the playback frame rate of the incoming signal as 24 fps.

Any caveats? Shutter speed, etc.?

Simon were you ever able to figure out if there was really any quality difference between the PS and FX overcranked modes (24 vs 28 mbps)?

Thanks.

December 23rd, 2011, 03:41 PM	#17
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: S&Q questions This behavior is normal, and exactly what Slow Motion (or "overcranking") is about: - you shoot what is intended to be 1080/25p (at 25 fps), but recording 50 fps. Then, on playback (25 fps), you're getting 2x slower motion (and no audio). The 1080/50p mode on the FS100 has nothing to do with S&Q; it's a recording format on its own and can carry audio track, as well. Of course you can slow it down in post, but that's another thing to on-camera slow motion recording. Hope this helps Piotr __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

December 23rd, 2011, 05:02 PM	#18
Jeff Troiano Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 480	Re: S&Q questions Ok, I'm going to take a stab at this one. Hopefully I understand correctly. There are 2 settings that you set, in S&Q. One is for your playback frame rate. For me, that is usually 24p or 30p. But it could be 60p, if I want super quick motion. So once i set my "conform to" rate, then I choose the frame rate for desired effect. If I'm conforming to 30p, and I choose 60p, I'll get 1/2 speed playback. If I record a frame rate at less then 30p, and then conform to 30p, I'll get quick motion. But your example of choosing 50p as your conform to frame rate, then trying to do 50p S&Q, basically all you are doing is recording normal video. That's why you'd get audio upon play back. When recording 1 rate (60p for me), and playing back at another (30p for me), you get no audio, because the audio would be a slowed down version of the actual recorded audio. Hope that makes sense.

December 23rd, 2011, 05:34 PM	#19
Simon Spear Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 34	Re: S&Q questions Everyone is making sense, but that is not really what I'm asking. You can use 50p/60p using 1/100 or 1/120 shutter and conform to 24p/25p/30p in Cinema Tools (Mac) to get slowmo from the 50p/60p setting (this is what everyone has been doing with 720/50p & 720/60p on HDSLR's to get slowmo). The added bonus with this on the FS100 is that you maintain an audio track which you can strip out before conforming and therefore retain audio at normal speed if required. In many reviewers opinions this was a big plus when shooting slowmo on the FS100. While this is a more involved workflow than using the 1080/25p or 1080/30p FX/FH settings I was wondering if there was actually any difference in quality between the 24mbps 24p/25p/30p and 28mbps 50p/60p settings hence asking what everyone was using. Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well, but thanks for the input! __________________ View from the Blue Spear FILMS

February 4th, 2014, 01:33 AM	#20
Amir Qureshi New Boot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: CA Posts: 20	Re: S&Q questions I know this is a dead thread, but now that I am trying to record the overcranked footage to an external recorder from FS100' HDMI (if it even sends the overcranked signal out of its HDMI) I thought maybe I should try to bring this one back to life again. So what I have learned from reading this thread is that while in S&Q mode, the camera will record overcranked (say 1080/24p 60fps) internally on its SD cards, but it will send only a 1080p 60 (playback rate of 60 fps) out of its HDMI output, correct? And if the above is correct, then all FS100 is really doing is capturing the image at 60 frames per second (as it would normally do for its non-cranked 1080p 60 mode) but right before it writes these frames to the internal SD card(s) its actually stamping these frames with the playback frame rate of 24fps on the meta data. And while this happens the originally captured 60 frames per second images are being sent out thru HDMI as is with their original playback frame rate meta data of 60 fps without any change . Hence the 1080p 60 output from the HDMI while in S&Q mode, as well as the embedded audio. If the above theory is correct, then after recording my footage externally as 1080 60p signal, all I have to do is re-stamp the playback frame rate to 24 fps, and thats really it, correct? Or if my external recorder allows for it, just tell it to set the playback frame rate of the incoming signal as 24 fps. Any caveats? Shutter speed, etc.? Simon were you ever able to figure out if there was really any quality difference between the PS and FX overcranked modes (24 vs 28 mbps)? Thanks.