ENG Style zoom lens for FS-100?

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

Do you know if Sony, or a third party company, is planing to release a ENG zoom lens to go with this camera? From what I read, the kit lens is a pain to use manually. What I want is a 10X lens, with good manual focus and zoom (servo or not, don't really care) with marking, and an iris ring. It's ok if the aperture is 3.5f-6.3f. With a base sensitivity of ISO 800, this is about the same thing as using the lens provided with the EX3.

I would be willing to pay easilly up to 2K for something like that. I know, some might say that it defeat the whole idea of having a big sensor. I do not think it's true. such a lens would render the camera much more versatile. Put this lens when you are doing ENG style works and the DOF is not an issue, grab your set of prime and fast zooms for narrative work or to get a more cinematic feel.

I keep going between my 7D and the EX1, XLH1. If a lens like this is released, I will be able to shoot every assignement with this camera.

[Gabe Strong]

I totally agree. A lot of people have told me that it is pointless
as it defeats the whole purpose of a large sensor camera and that I just
need to learn to shoot 'narrative style' or else just get an EX-3.
What they don't quite seem to understand, is that from my point of
view, it is an interchangable lens camera, so on one day, I could use
it with a lens like you are describing for stuff I'd normally use
an EX-1, and then the next day, use a short DSLR zoom or prime
for a 'beauty shot' type piece. Right now, the F3, is the camera
which Sony is releasing a zoom lens for (servo zoom and everything).
However, I don't know of any such zoom that exists in the price
range you are talking. Look at the price of a RED zoom lens which
is 18-80 or so......we are talking 6 grand and that's probably
a good deal. You could maybe get something like a 17-55 and a
40-200 and with those two lenses you would be pretty set......that
would probably cost you about $2500 and I don't know how they
work with manual iris and focus, they are DSLR lenses so they
are made for still cameras.

[Nicholas de Kock]

These lenses exists however you need to be a millionaire to afford one. It's not so simple to get 10x zoom on a full frame sensor, 10x zoom on the EX1 is equivalent to a +/- 400mm lens.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674640-REG/Zeiss_1531_502_DigiZoom_17_112mm_T1_9.html

[Brian Drysdale]

You can buy used 35mm cine zooms, however, you'd need to check them over, plus see if they cover Super 35 and they're heavy. Definitely not ENG, but the camera is very light, so you'd be attaching it to the zoom, rather than the other way about.

[Jon Braeley]

Though not a 10x zoom, this could be a good choice for an every-day lens with full functions:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545868-REG/Sony_SAL2470Z_SAL_2470Z_24_70mm_f_2_8_Carl.html

[Glen Vandermolen]

Originally Posted by Jon Braeley

Though not a 10x zoom, this could be a good choice for an every-day lens with full functions:

Sony SAL-2470Z 24-70mm f/2.8 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar SAL2470Z

That one's very nice. Here's my idea for a similar lens, but much cheaper:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/646853-REG/Sony_SAL2875_SAL_2875_28_75mm_f_2_8_SAM.html

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

Every one of your suggestions are not suitable for eng work. If you already used something like an HPX2000 with a proper eng lens, you know what I mean. In fact, I don't think it's that difficult to build. The sony kit lens is a good start. It's a 10x zoom lens, compact and cheap. We just need to put the same optic in an ENG package... proper focus and zoom rings with hard stop and marking, proper iris ring, parfocal, and do not extend while zooming.

Since the camera is rated at 800 iso at 0db, we do not need a fast lens. 3.5-6.3 is enough, and allow the design to be fairly compact and cheap. I think that at a 2000 - 3000, a*manufacturer could sell a good bunch of them.

[Doug Jensen]

I think that if Ferrari would build a car that could go 200 Mph, carry 10 people, and haul a load of gravel when necessary, they'd sell a lot of them for $10,000. I just don't understand why they don't do it.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but let's be realistic, no camera is going to be able to cover all the bases. There are always going to be compromises. My last Betacam cost me over $60,000 with a lens in 1999. Now that same $60K will buy me several cameras and quite a few lenses that blow the Betacam out of the water in every way you want to measure it. Today's equipment is a huge bargain and allows me to earn more money with them than ever before. It's not what you spend, it's what the camera earns.

I, for one, don't expect a single camera to ever meet my needs again. I will always have multiple cameras for multiple purposes, and I certainly don't want to be hobbled with a $2K lens that tries to do everything. Decent glass costs money and always will.

The ENG lens on my F800 was over $25K. The lens on my F350 was over $12K. Do we really believe we can get a decent zoom lens for ENG/EFP use for $2K? I won't be buying one of those even if someone builds it.

[Gabe Strong]

Doug,

I mean this in the utmost respect as you are a very big authority on
the Sony cameras. But why not? Obviously you don't want that type of
lens as you see too many compromises and would rather use something else,
but if there are people that wouldn't mind being saddled with a lens that
tries to do everything, why not build it? They are already 9/10th of
the way there with the kit lens. The OP said he'd spend 2k on
something that was the speed of the kit lens, with proper iris and
focus and zoom rings and parfocal. Now I think the kit lens is
running about $500-$700. Would adding a proper iris, focus and zoom
ring add enough to make the price go over 2 grand? I honestly
don't know, and maybe it would for reasons I don't understand?
But if it wouldn't, and there is a market......not sure why they
wouldn't do it. I don't like 24p myself, but that doesn't mean
there isn't a market for it......

Maybe I'm just way off base and don't understand lenses here. But it didn't
seem like he was asking for a fast car that doubled (tripled?) as a SUV and
truck. He seemed to be OK with a slow lens just like the kit lens, as long
as it had some ENG type features. So given that he would be ok with a F3.5 - 6.3
is it really out of the realm of possibility?

[Doug Jensen]

Gabe,

Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point, and I don't mean to offend anyone with my sarcasm, but I believe it can't be done on a professional level. If you want to turn the FS100 into a consumer camera, be my guest. But with the "wish list" of features that have been proposed at that price point, it can't be done. Have you looked the prices of decent lenses? There's a reason why they cost what they do. I can pound a nail with a hammer, and eventually get it into the wood, but that doesn't mean it was the right tool for the job. Trying to make the FS100 (or any camera) something that it is not intended for is a waste of time and money . . . in my opinion. Others clearly disagree. Why not just buy an EX1R and be done with it? The shallower DoF isn't that big of a deal compared to all other other shortcomings of trying to make the FS100 into an EX1R.

[Tip McPartland]

Funny about the mention of the EX series. Those cameras (I just sold my EX-3) are very good and used by many network programmers, including BBC with a Nano. Part of the appeal is that for the price point they have pretty good lenses, and I doubt if the glass costs much more than $2,000 or so of the overall price. The FS100 version might even cost less because it wouldn't need (couldn't use) the servo zoom.

A lens of that quality configured to fit the FS and its big sensor would be great, and I could live with that. Any thoughts?

Tip McPartland

[Gabe Strong]

Doug,

Yeah, I mean I understand.....people are often asking for things
that are unrealistic at the price point they want....and usually
you have to make compromises somewhere. For lenses, you
obviously have a few things......the speed of the lens is usually
proportional to the cost....the 'faster' the lens, the more it costs.
Also, if you have a zoom lens, it can be cheap, but then it is
usually SLOW or it can be semi fast (still not as fast as a prime)
but then it is EXPENSIVE and BIG! So I guess, my question would
be (given that I truthfully don't understand everything involved!)
What would be a realistic price point for big sensor zoom
lens (like for the FS 100) that had an 8 or 10x zoom IF a
person was willing to live with a F3.5 - 6.3 lens, but wanted
'video style' features on it? Is it just not possible
because there isn't the economies of scale for a 'video style'
lens that there is for still lenses? Is it not physically possible?
Is it possible, but only if you are willing to pay 20 - 40 grand?

[Doug Jensen]

One of the zoom lenses that Sony has announced for the F3 is very close to what you are asking for. Unfortunately, it wont work on the FS100 and it isn't going to cost $2K - $3K. I have no idea what it will cost, but it won't be that cheap.

[Gabe Strong]

Doug,

I had heard that the Sony lens you are talking about was 'rumored' to
cost almost as much as the F3 itself. It was supposed to be a F 3.8
constant throughout the zoom range I think. However, to put to
this in perspective, about 2-3 years ago the local PBS station spent about
the same amount as it would cost to buy the F3 WITH this upcoming zoom
lens just to buy a F-355!

[Jon Braeley]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

That one's very nice. Here's my idea for a similar lens, but much cheaper:

Sony SAL-2875 28-75mm f/2.8 SAM Constant Aperture Zoom SAL2875

Actually there is a world of difference one is professional grade with Zeiss ED glass optics, image stabilization and host of other features. It may be twice the cost but it is five times the lens.