Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom at DVinfo.net

Bill Bruner · April 24th, 2011, 09:59 AM

Upcoming F3 vs FS100 vs AF100 | Philip Bloom

Really looking forward to this.

Andy Wilkinson · April 24th, 2011, 10:04 AM

Yep, me too!

Alister Chapman · April 24th, 2011, 12:38 PM

Can't wait, but then I and Den Lennie will have a FS-100, my F3, a VG10 and a Canon 550D to play with on Tuesday :-)

Erik Phairas · April 24th, 2011, 12:58 PM

Hope he compares brightness and noise levels at max gain.

Joachim Hoge · April 26th, 2011, 10:08 AM

I hope he compares how 25p looks as I have had a lot of trouble with my af101.
It just does not look right to me, at least compared to my ex-3. A lot of judder.

I needed the camera for a production, but I wouldn't mind selling it and get a f3 or fs100 instead.

Alister Chapman · April 26th, 2011, 12:44 PM

We shot everything with the FS-100 at 24P today.

Doug Jensen · April 26th, 2011, 01:07 PM

Alister, I think I heard something about a wedding over there on Friday. Is too late to talk the bride into letting you shoot some video of the ceremony with the FS100? Seems like a good opportunity to show event videographers what the camera can do in a typical wedding.

PS. You might need to rent a tux.

Alister Chapman · April 26th, 2011, 03:17 PM

You know, even when I told them I would use the very latest camera and do it as a freebie they just didn't seem interested in having me stand behind the Bishop to get a close up of the wedding vows.

I heard that they are using some co-operative made up of 3 local cowboy outfits, the BBC/ITV and Sky instead. What do they know, I could have picked up the required 60 cameras and 8 HD OB trucks on ebay, crewed it with DV-Info'ers and then split the Blu-ray sales between us and the royal family. I'm sure with such an extended family they would have wanted plenty of copies.

Bill Bruner · April 27th, 2011, 03:30 AM

Philip's first impressions, before the full review:

Sony FS100…just my first impressions | Philip Bloom

Doug Jensen · April 27th, 2011, 04:55 AM

Having used a pre-production FS100 myself, I can agree with most of Phil's impressions of the camera. However, he says " . . . HDMI and it is only 8 bit 422 . . ."

I have no way of testing it myself, but I'm pretty sure that is incorrect. I have been told personally by Juan Martinez at Sony USA that the HDMI output is 8-bit 4:4:4.
And if you don't have a recorder that can handle 4:4:4, then the camera will automatically send 4:2:2.
At least that is what I have been told by the man who should know.

Glen Vandermolen · April 27th, 2011, 05:09 AM

Bloom's review puts Nigel's earlier review in proper context. So many on this and other forums were quick to damn the FS100 based solely on Nigel's review. I thought his review complaining about too small controls seemed a bit nit-picky and rushed.
It's good to see the FS100 vindicated by Bloom and many others.

And I still haven't received my wedding invite. Do you suppose it got delayed through the international shipping?

Erik Phairas · April 27th, 2011, 05:33 PM

1st F3
2nd FS100, milky skies, trees oversaturated.
3rd AF100, shadow detail lost.

Steve Mullen · April 27th, 2011, 07:47 PM

1st F3 << great resolution, but text on white sign board is blown out. So the shadow detail was obtained at the loss of detail in bright areas.

2nd FS100 << leaf detail lost and concrete has green tint. Text on sign board almost read! But, shadow detail less than F3.

3rd AF100 << Perfect saturation, but shadow detail is gone and text on white sign board is blown out.

That's what I see, but there are so many camera settings involved.

=========

"just HDMI and it is only 8 bit 422 even though HDMI can do 10 bit 422 because the processor is only 8 bit."

I think this should read, "... just HDMI and it is 8 bit because the the DSP output is 8-bit."

When RGB data are converted to YUV, once an AVCHD encoder were to encounter 4:4:4 data, it would convert them to 4:2:0. Given the desire to save cost, it makes perfect sense to never create 4:4:4 YUV -- unless Sony really really wants to support recording via HDMI.

Another possible cost saving strategy, use a cheaper HDMI output chip that only does 8-bits and 4:2:2.

We'll have to wait testing to know for certain. One wonders why Philip thinks HDMI is 4:2:2?

Steve Nelson · April 28th, 2011, 04:14 AM

This is real interesting!

Glen Vandermolen · April 28th, 2011, 06:56 AM

Wow, cool test.
The F3 and 5D look great.
What's amazing is how good the FS100 looks at 30db! As an old school video guy, the thought of ever shooting above 9db is a pariah, but I could use that high gain on the FS100.
The AF100 doesn't appear to be in the same league with the others - very noisy.

Looking at the pic on Bloom's website of all 3 video cameras next to each other, the FS100 looks so much smaller. Very compact design.

April 24th, 2011, 09:59 AM	#1
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Upcoming F3 vs FS100 vs AF100 \| Philip Bloom Really looking forward to this.

April 24th, 2011, 10:04 AM	#2
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Yep, me too! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 24th, 2011, 12:38 PM	#3
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Can't wait, but then I and Den Lennie will have a FS-100, my F3, a VG10 and a Canon 550D to play with on Tuesday :-) __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

April 24th, 2011, 12:58 PM	#4
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Hope he compares brightness and noise levels at max gain. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

April 26th, 2011, 10:08 AM	#5
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom I hope he compares how 25p looks as I have had a lot of trouble with my af101. It just does not look right to me, at least compared to my ex-3. A lot of judder. I needed the camera for a production, but I wouldn't mind selling it and get a f3 or fs100 instead.

April 26th, 2011, 12:44 PM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom We shot everything with the FS-100 at 24P today. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

April 26th, 2011, 01:07 PM	#7
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Alister, I think I heard something about a wedding over there on Friday. Is too late to talk the bride into letting you shoot some video of the ceremony with the FS100? Seems like a good opportunity to show event videographers what the camera can do in a typical wedding. PS. You might need to rent a tux. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 26th, 2011, 03:17 PM	#8
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom You know, even when I told them I would use the very latest camera and do it as a freebie they just didn't seem interested in having me stand behind the Bishop to get a close up of the wedding vows. I heard that they are using some co-operative made up of 3 local cowboy outfits, the BBC/ITV and Sky instead. What do they know, I could have picked up the required 60 cameras and 8 HD OB trucks on ebay, crewed it with DV-Info'ers and then split the Blu-ray sales between us and the royal family. I'm sure with such an extended family they would have wanted plenty of copies. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

April 27th, 2011, 03:30 AM	#9
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Philip's first impressions, before the full review: Sony FS100…just my first impressions \| Philip Bloom

April 27th, 2011, 04:55 AM	#10
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Having used a pre-production FS100 myself, I can agree with most of Phil's impressions of the camera. However, he says " . . . HDMI and it is only 8 bit 422 . . ." I have no way of testing it myself, but I'm pretty sure that is incorrect. I have been told personally by Juan Martinez at Sony USA that the HDMI output is 8-bit 4:4:4. And if you don't have a recorder that can handle 4:4:4, then the camera will automatically send 4:2:2. At least that is what I have been told by the man who should know. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

April 27th, 2011, 05:09 AM	#11
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Bloom's review puts Nigel's earlier review in proper context. So many on this and other forums were quick to damn the FS100 based solely on Nigel's review. I thought his review complaining about too small controls seemed a bit nit-picky and rushed. It's good to see the FS100 vindicated by Bloom and many others. And I still haven't received my wedding invite. Do you suppose it got delayed through the international shipping?

April 27th, 2011, 05:33 PM	#12
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Which camera is which? F3, FS100, AF101 on Vimeo 1st F3 2nd FS100, milky skies, trees oversaturated. 3rd AF100, shadow detail lost. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

April 27th, 2011, 07:47 PM	#13
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom 1st F3 << great resolution, but text on white sign board is blown out. So the shadow detail was obtained at the loss of detail in bright areas. 2nd FS100 << leaf detail lost and concrete has green tint. Text on sign board almost read! But, shadow detail less than F3. 3rd AF100 << Perfect saturation, but shadow detail is gone and text on white sign board is blown out. That's what I see, but there are so many camera settings involved. ========= "just HDMI and it is only 8 bit 422 even though HDMI can do 10 bit 422 because the processor is only 8 bit." I think this should read, "... just HDMI and it is 8 bit because the the DSP output is 8-bit." When RGB data are converted to YUV, once an AVCHD encoder were to encounter 4:4:4 data, it would convert them to 4:2:0. Given the desire to save cost, it makes perfect sense to never create 4:4:4 YUV -- unless Sony really really wants to support recording via HDMI. Another possible cost saving strategy, use a cheaper HDMI output chip that only does 8-bits and 4:2:2. We'll have to wait testing to know for certain. One wonders why Philip thinks HDMI is 4:2:2? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

April 28th, 2011, 04:14 AM	#14
Steve Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Monument, CO Posts: 109	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom This is real interesting! Low light test: FS100 F3 AF101 5DmkII on Vimeo

April 28th, 2011, 06:56 AM	#15
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom Wow, cool test. The F3 and 5D look great. What's amazing is how good the FS100 looks at 30db! As an old school video guy, the thought of ever shooting above 9db is a pariah, but I could use that high gain on the FS100. The AF100 doesn't appear to be in the same league with the others - very noisy. Looking at the pic on Bloom's website of all 3 video cameras next to each other, the FS100 looks so much smaller. Very compact design.