Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

[Mark David Williams]

The real star of the show though was Percy the sealpoint!

[Doug Jensen]

Phil, I didn't find your review biased either, but on the other hand, it didn't touch on tons of differences between the cameras that I think are even more important for people to know about than the obvious physcial characteristics and format settings.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Doug,

I think that for anyone familiar with things like the CineAlta badge, 10-bit 4:4:4,/ S-log out, etc. - Phil really didn't have to use any more excuses for the F3 vs. FS100 price tag difference. Plus, if I remember correctly, at least 3 times he stressed that he was not the person to tell anybody whether or not it's worth it to them!

[Brian Drysdale]

Selection will depend on what you plan to use the cameras for, but this comparison does make an extremely useful starting point for making a decision.

Like with the RED and DSLRs, the third party manufacturers will find new business.

Perhaps it would be good if the designers tried operating their cameras on a cold day, wearing gloves.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

he stressed that he was not the person to tell anybody whether or not it's worth it to them!

I hope you're not implying that is something that I have done. I go out of my way to point out the differences between cameras, but will very rarely ever recommend a particular camera to someone else even if they contact me directly and explain their needs. There are too many factors to consider.

But I'm not talking about 4:4:4 and S-LOG differences either. I'm talking about things like the ability to control clip naming, having the XDCAM workflow at your fingertips, the ability to move PP files from one camera to another, last clip delete, Hypergamma choices, and other functions that are vitally important to some people -- and even that list is still just the tip of the iceberg.

I did a two hour presentation at NAB on the FS100 and F3 for Sony. Eventually they will post it online so I won't bother repeating it here. I'm just giving people a heads up to compare ALL the features of these cameras before they make a choice. They are certaily not just the same camera at two different price points. You give up some things and gain some things no matter which one you choose. That's all I'm saying.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I hope you're not implying that is something that I have done. .

ABSOLUTELY not. Doug!

You were the first on this forum to give us all this exciting information, and your video made with the FS100 has been the most beautiful one on the web so far - no kidding :)

Piotr

[Chris Barcellos]

What I liked about Phil's review was the real world look at each of the cameras. It gave me insight into what could be done to shoot around the short comings on the cameras. As with the 5D, which I have been shooting, you need to know your camera and know how you can fix the shortcomings.

The recent addition of the Technicolor picture style, and post treatment, is adding some legs to the 5D, and while I have been lusting daily the FS-100 / AF-100 form factor (more than once I have almost pushed the preorder button) , I am thinking my 5D and T2i coupled with Cineform, Dual Eyes and my Marshall monitor will have to remain my rigs for the near future, while things settle out, given my shooting is limited to local no and low budget productions. I am beginning to think that Canon is going to compete in this market with an improved 5D late in the year, or early next year, rather than go the way Sony and Panny have gone.

[Phil Bloom]

Hi Doug

I didn't point out all of them things which are so much better in the F3 simply because there are too many to list. I do say if you want all the features of the F3 in the FS100 then you would have an F3 so don't expect them.

It is a stripped down version of it with one additional feature.

I am currently uploading a tweaked version of part 1 as there is def a touch more moire on the fs100 than the other two camcorders, hard to spot but it's there...nothing like DSLRs but it's certainly there.

You get what you pay for and the features of the F3 and superb, just wish it could overcrank in full HD and it had a better quality onboard recorder.

[Jon Braeley]

Actually Phil I should have worded this better "so it's fairly hard to review the FS-100 without being a little bias", meaning that as a new F3 owner it's hard not to be biased, because I know for myself I would be inclined to be!
I thought it was a great review ... I was leaning toward the FS-100 and now you nudged me closer to the F3 camp - and rightly so!

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Jon Braeley

However, both the Sony's have a far better image than the AF101 in my view. And is'nt that what we all really should be considering....even if one camera gets there more easily than the other.

The view that image is all is indeed behind the adulation for the F3 and FS100. That's why Doug wanted folks to come see his demo footage. But image isn't all! I had no need to see video in the Sony booth because as soon as I went to the RED booth I'd see even better video.

Image is not even that high on the list of what makes a great camera. Having used the VG10 I would simply never buy a camera for more than $1000 that did not have ND filters. I'm not going to buy gizmos to provide what a camera must provide -- and indeed what the F3 provides. And, the higher sensitivity makes the lack of ND an even more serious issue.

Price performance is another critical metric. It is THE most important metric. Alister's own posted video shows the VG10 looks as good as the F3. And, I know the VH10 looks no better than the $800 NEX-5. And, the NEX-5 has focus assist the VG10 does not.

Now before the screaming starts, of course the F3 must look slightly better than a NEX-5. But, the question is does it look over 15X better? The answer is, NO IT DOES NOT. So what to do?

Obviously, if one wants to spend the money buy the F3 and rig it to the hilt. (But, I'm convinced anyone who is really such a great shooter they actually earn money from their camera, should certainly able to afford a RED. Why stop at an F3.)

But, for the vast majority of folks money is an issue. So where to compromise? The simple fact is that NEX-5, VG10, and FS100 lack ND filters and are not ergonomic well designed. (And, I would put ergonomics way above absolute image quality.) And let me shock Piotr by saying the EX1 is a nightmare to handhold and I wouldn't take one if Sony gave it to me. But, the image is wonderful!)

The solution so simple -- just don't buy any of the Sony's. This year Panasonic makes the best OVERALL camcorder, the AF100. It's got wonderful color, very nice contrast, more than enough resolution, and a huge selection of lenses. And, it's price falls nicely between the NEX-5 and the F3.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Now before the screaming starts, of course the F3 must look slightly better than a NEX-5. But, the question is does it look over 15X better? The answer is, NO IT DOES NOT. So what to do?.

Dear Steve,

Sorry, but this is a wrong logic; does a car that can go 300 kmh cost just twice more than a one only capable of 150? The price always goes up exponentially, not proportionally, with increased performance!

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

And let me shock Piotr by saying the EX1 is a nightmare to handhold and I wouldn't take one if Sony gave it to me. But, the image is wonderful!).

You haven't shocked me at all, Steve - the EX1 is a nightmare to hand-hold, even more so than most non-shoulder mount cameras are! But, there are work-arounds, believe me :)

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The solution so simple -- just don't buy any of the Sony's. This year Panasonic makes the best OVERALL camcorder, the AF100. It's got wonderful color, very nice contrast, more than enough resolution, and a huge selection of lenses. And, it's price falls nicely between the NEX-5 and the F3.

Steve, with all due respect - you seem to be the only one here to give this kind of "absolutely best" kind of recommendations, etc. This makes me wonder what your true agenda is - you are writing books on Sony products, aren't you?

[David C. Williams]

My F3 is doing exactly what Sony designed it to do. It's shooting a TV series for Movie Network Channels. Oddly enough, I doubt they'd pay such a nice rental I only had an NEX-5, and I certainly wouldn't be earning enough as I am :)

The thing with cameras, is that they are only there to create an image. That is their sole function. Everything else is just talk. Some people just talk, some shoot nice images.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Steve, with all due respect - you seem to be the only one here to give this kind of "absolutely best" kind of recommendations, etc. This makes me wonder what your true agenda is - you are writing books on Sony products, aren't you?

WAIT! I've been recommending the best COMPROMISE. I seem to be the only one NOT trying to push the absolute best. As Philp said, I want the "best bang for the buck."

As far as agenda -- I don't review products any longer. I write books on cameras that are going to be big sellers OR are cameras that represent the future of video. I thought the VG10 would be exactly such a camera, but it was not. It turns-out that that NEX-5 was the REALLY BIG sales hit in 2010. So, mid-stream I changed my book.

I expect the FS100 will be a big seller too, but I will not waste my time writing a book on a camera I would not buy. That would be dishonest. I would write a book on the AF100, but Barry Green has a tight relation with Panasonic so that makes that a futile effort.

But, I'm convinced that none of these cameras are going to be important 6 months from now -- and that is how long it takes to write a book. The re-spin of NEX-5 may well deliver FS100 quality at a fraction of the price. The next VG10 is likely to be better. But, these are not ground breaking products. An edition 2 of my NEX FAMILY book nicely handles these.

What really interests me is the step past HD. Frankly, I doubt I'll write any book on a camera that can't deliver 4K2K. And, this decision -- and I'm speaking frankly -- comes from decades of marketing and sales experience. Japan has two options to grow their business: 3D and 4K2K. Sony seems to be betting big on 3D. My bet is their bet is wrong.

The real money maker for Japan is shooting much higher resolution images because it requires a complete replacement of one's equipment. And, I'm convinced that higher resolution on significantly larger screens is what the promise of HD is all about. All of these cameras look great on the internet -- although I'm amazed that only Phillip's videos look good!

So there is my agenda out in the open The bleeding edge. And, as good as the F3 is -- it is not on this edge. Oddly, DSLRs because they are so cheap and deliver so much image quality actually remain on this edge. Plus, of course, the first cheap 4K2K camcorder which will arrive by IBC from JVC.

[Brian Drysdale]

I wouldn't panic too much about 4K2K in the short term, any broadcasters I know are trying to get up to speed and put the infrastructures in place for 1080 HD, anything else is way off into the future. Also, many people just watch SD on their HD capable televisions.

[Alister Chapman]

If you honestly believe that the VG10 looks as good as the F3 in my side by side clips, why on earth are you bothering with 4k when you can't see a very clear difference between two HD cameras. Please look at the original files and frame grabs and not the smoothed out vimeo clip. The difference is plain to see. Moire on the bricks, aliasing on the roof tops, blue and pink splotches on the concrete outside the garages (moire), jagged horizontal and vertical lines, lower resolution.

My customers pay for image quality, they want the best images they can get. Yes budget is important, but it's not about most bang for the buck, but most bang for the budget. If it was all about most bang for the buck then I'd probably be using a go-pro.