Sony to expand 35mm large format NXCAM lineup

[Alister Chapman]

There is no IS (assuming you mean image stabilisation) on the F3 at the moment. That will be a lens feature. Possibly someone will come up with a way to adapt a stabilised DSLR lens or produce an uber expensive stabilised PL lens.

As I said above, a fast s35 zoom of 10x or more is going to probably cost more than the camera and I question how many people will be prepared to pay that kind of money. Certainly those with deep pockets or big budgets, but that often excludes the "run n gun" crowd.

DSLR zooms don't track focus so very difficult to use run n gun.

If you going to shoot at f11 you may as well use a 2/3" or 1/2" camera. Yes the F3 can produce very nice images, but so can many, many other cameras. The PMW-350 produces a very nice, clean image and without the lens restrictions.

The problem is this. You stick a fully manual, shallow DoF camera in the hands of someone that is already right at the edge of what they are able to get away with and it will be too much to deal with. Ultra critical manual focus, manual exposure, no zoom. They will soon get fed up with it because while from time to time they might get some amazing results they will end up throwing away footage that normally would have been straight forward for them to shoot.

I have a pair of F3's on order, but there is no way I'm selling my EX1R. It's all about having the right tool for the job. It's like a farmer buying an Ferrari to plough the fields because it has more horsepower than his tractor.

[Casey Krugman]

Originally Posted by Tans Mark

I see several other ppl on different forums who are thinking about using this cam as a 'run and gun' camera.

Let me say I am sick of the opinion of several pro, who are saying: the s35 is a pro sensor, any camera with such sensor can be used for 'big' movies only and any other 'pro-like' situations. I think the camera user should decide which tool if he wants, and not the so called pros. Like everyone, including the run and gun camera operators want very good video image quality. It can't be resticted as 'the pros don't allow to use it'.

In my opinion there is no low or high reputation usage of camcorders. I think every user, including the feature film makers, nature film makers, wedding video makers, run and gun video makers, etc also can get the chance to buy the ultimate tool to make the best possible image quality.

There are lots of discussion about the shallow DOF is not good for 'run and gun' style of videos. But who sad that the run and guy cameraman wants to use shallow dof ? On the lens there are different F numbers, like 2.8, 3.5, 4, etc. Noone is pushing anyone to use F/4, it is possible the select f11 or f22 on the lens. Voila, shallow DOF problem is solved, so anything around f/11 can be used for big DOF.

If i look at the 6k usd price of the nxcam, i really hope that sony can give use some very cheap, also very good quality lens. But if we need to buy (i don't care about renting) 10-20k arri lenses, why the cheap camera price ? Anyone who can pay 10-20k for a lens or 100k for a complete arri lens package has so much money in his pocket that he can buy F3 or any other pro Sony modell.

I think the reason that so many "Pros" are opposed to the idea of the super35 sensors being used in a run and gun setting is because in certain cases is impractical.

The fact is yes, the sensor is huge and should be great in low light. But then comes the lens, which if you need a zoom lens is going to cut a couple of stops. Then for deeper DOF, stop down further. This in itself will negate any benefit in low light performance, and may even make it slightly worse.

Also, if HD and DSLR video have shown me nothing else, it is that many people have a ton of trouble not only achieving focus, but maintaining it especially on moving targets. Even on big tv shows, I can't tell you how many times i've spotted a focus point being on someone's ear rather than the eye. It takes a ton of precision and practice to be a good focus puller, and for the moment no camera can match it even closely.

And finally, I'd rather that Sony not include a lens on the nxcam version if it's just going to be a cheap pos. A huge sensor needs good glass. People are already testing different lenses on the AF-100 and the differences are breathtakingly bad on certain lenses.

Just my $0.02

[Jon Fairhurst]

One thing about Scarlet 2/3 vs. existing s35 and ff35 sensors: Scarlet's rolling shutter is likely to be negligible. That will make it viable in handheld or shoulder mount (with accessories) configuration.

Personally, I find stabilization to be as big a challenge as focus when shooting with a large CMOS sensor (5D2).

[Brian Drysdale]

I don't think anyone is stopping people from using which ever sensor size they want. Although, you do find there's the right tool for the job you're doing and it's not always the largest sensor.

Regarding prices, I wouldn't say any of these camera base prices are what you'd use for a working kit. They usually need accessories. Also, don't expect cheap, very good quality glass, more pro stills lenses type prices.

Abel cine have an adapter that allows HD lenses to be used on large sensor cameras.
HDx2: 2/3″ Lenses on Large Sensor Cameras | CineTechnica
However, these lenses aren't cheap, but if you already own a 2/3" HD zoom it could be useful..

[Erik Phairas]

I admit I've been rethinking this whole thing. I actually don't like shallow DOF. Most of the time I would be setting the camera up to make the DOF pretty deep. The one area that is selling me is the lack of noise and low light ability. Even if I had to close the iris down to get useable focus, even if it turned out to only be as sensitive as the EX3 after I adjusted the lens, it would still have 60% less noise. That's a pretty big plus.

[Glen Vandermolen]

I looked at a VG10 recently, and it's a really nice cam. It can be an inexpensive training tool til the new NXCAM comes out. Plus, can't the E-mount and A-mount lenses be used on the NXCAM? I thought I saw a pic of the NXCAM with the e-mount 18-200 zoom, although I doubt the new cam and the VG10 have the same sensor.

I may get the VG10 just so I can learn about different lenses and smaller depths of field.

[Robin Davies-Rollinson]

When I started out many years ago as a BBC assistant film cameraman, shooting with 35mm Arris and Cameflexes, part of my kit was a tape measure and American Cinematographer depth-of-field calculator tables. When the lighting cameraman had chosen the lens and given me the f. stop, I'd work out the distance to the subject and how much DOF I'd have to play with, pulling focus as necessary to pre-determined marks.
I'm slightly amused by the arrogance of some new-comers to shallow DOF cameras who think that they can just pick up the camera, and start shooting docs and other run 'n gun items. What's the betting that we're going to see a plethora of videos with hunting for focus shots - and shaky as well...
Get real guys - as it has been said earlier, choose the camera for the job; narrow DOF looks fine in some cases, but don't over-do it, 1/3 sensors are perfectly good for many productions - and it'll give you more time to concentrate on the subject matter.
Just don't diminish the craft...

[Emmanuel Plakiotis]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Personally, I find stabilization to be as big a challenge as focus when shooting with a large CMOS sensor (5D2).

My personal experience with 5DII and 7D is the exact opposite. I manage to attain much better stabilized handheld shots, than with the 1/3inch camcorders I was using before and I attribute that to the sensor's size, given their unfriendly form factor (I don't use rigs, because it negates the portability advantage).
Does anybody else has the same experience?

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Erik Phairas

.Even if I had to close the iris down to get useable focus, even if it turned out to only be as sensitive as the EX3 after I adjusted the lens, it would still have 60% less noise. That's a pretty big plus.

It's a matter of deciding your own personal priorities for the type of work you're doing. If you need a compact 14 x zoom lens as a priority, your decision could go the other way.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

"In a few months?" We'll see, but don't hold your breath. 2012 has been tossed around as the release date. But at least it'll give you time to save up for one. From what I've seen, it looks like a really nice camera.

Jim Jannard mentioned late summer on a Scarlet thread. With all the build up, I expected a bit sooner than that, but given they need to meet a surge without bugs that seems to be a target date.

Hopefully, they'll also have essential modules like audio available from the start. Although, I wouldn't make any plans until you've got a camera in your hands.

[Alister Chapman]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

One thing about Scarlet 2/3 vs. existing s35 and ff35 sensors: Scarlet's rolling shutter is likely to be negligible. That will make it viable in handheld or shoulder mount (with accessories) configuration.

On what basis do you make that assumption? Sensor size has nothing to do with the amount of rolling shutter. It is the read out and refresh rate that makes the difference. Alexa has negligible skew and that;s s35. Don't put all s35 sensors in the same basket as DSLR sensors designed for slow speed read out.


What on earth has image stability got to do with sensor size? Ergonomics... yes, but not the actual size of the sensor. Shoot the same field of view with two different sensor sizes and the amount of image motion will be the same for the same amount of camera shake.

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Jim Jannard mentioned late summer on a Scarlet thread. With all the build up, I expected a bit sooner than that, but given they need to meet a surge without bugs that seems to be a target date.

Hopefully, they'll also have essential modules like audio available from the start. Although, I wouldn't make any plans until you've got a camera in your hands.

I believe Jannard has said spring for Epic-X, with Epic-S to follow shortly after (late spring). The "late summer" reference was to when hoi polloi (i.e., those without reservations) might receive their Epics.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Scarlet 2/3, which I mentioned in particular, can shoot a very high frame rate (150 fps burst). That means it has an exceptionally fast readout for a CMOS sensor. We should be able to throw that camera around with minimal jello. I have no idea about the read-reset times of the NXCAM line, but it's also CMOS. Has a spec been released? My experience is with DSLRs.

The 5D2 has a 25ms rolling shutter delay. In theory, a 150fps camera would have no more than a 6.7s rolling shutter time, and it would probably be closer to 4 or 5ms in practice. When shooting 24fps handheld, we'd have stuttering and/or motion blur issues well before rolling shutter comes into play.

RED's specs slower frame rates for its larger sensor cams. That might be due to resolution rather than size though.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach

I believe Jannard has said spring for Epic-X, with Epic-S to follow shortly after (late spring). The "late summer" reference was to when hoi polloi (i.e., those without reservations) might receive their Epics.

All rather confusing in a Scarlet thread, but some time later this year may cover the Scarlet 2/3" fixed zoom I suppose.

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

All rather confusing in a Scarlet thread, but some time later this year may cover the Scarlet 2/3" fixed zoom I suppose.

My bad. When I reread the thread, it wasn't actually clear which camera Jim Jannard was referring to. Someone had asked about the availability of Scarlet or Epic-S. He replied, "End of summer." That could mean either camera -- or possibly both -- will be available by that time.